Chalx the grey Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Hi fellow wolves, I had a list with a rune priest with jump pack (running around with a small skyclaw pack) and a plasma cannon dread and then I had a revelation: "screw it, I will take Bjorn as HQ and I will save 85 points!". I built a list around him in the army list section and I was wandering how would people counter old Bjorn, he is just a pain to kill and since there is quite a lot of armor already in the list I think most opponents will just ignore him... and pay for it ;) Also I would like to know if there is anything in 40k bjorn should actually be afraid of, since I think he is resilient and killy enough to be put in CC against anything (come here nob bikers) and I might as well be wrong... MCs maybe are the most threatening but even against them I think he stands a chance (else all my wolves become fearless :lol: ). Finally, just to consider point values, he is "just" 20 points more than a Land Raider and he brings (IMHO) more punch and way more fun. What do you think? Can the old fangs bring some light to the matter? Thanks in advance for your replies! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 i actually used him before. it was really fun actually, because my opponent didn't know that he had the extra saves. i left him with the assault cannon for the game. he did really well in both shooting and cc. i actually plan on running him a lot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Eldars, and their haywire granades... And their lances, that will bring your armour down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtee Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Eldars, and their haywire granades... And their lances, that will bring your armour down. I love him most with plasma cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171690 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 dont let nids get in combat with him, genestelers/broodlord/lictors (rending), warriors/ravenors (can have rending) and Hive Tyrants (str 6, I6 monstrous creaturs with 5-6 attacks normallY) and carnifexes (str 10, and can have 10 attacks on a charge that roll 2d6 plus 1 that only rolls 1). they will eat him even with his high armour and bonus saves. plus spore mines can be nasty, only str 3 but can roll 2d6 ap (ive taken out a landraider with a lucky hit). the other thing he should be worried about is just getting bogged down. he may be hard to kill but if i swamp him with 36 gaunts then it'll be probably 3 turns before he can do anything else. also necrons (despite people hating them) would do pretty well. all gaus weapons auto glance on a roll of 6 so basic squads will do damage, wont kill but could easily slow him down. then theres the old warscythes (which iirc) roll 2d6 armour penetration and ignore invulnerable saves, so no ward of the primarch.. oh then theres the nightbringer which will hurt him alot. assault squads with meltabombs will attack first and can cause alot of hurt to him too. hes certainly hard, but by no means invincible. i wouldn't throw him, unupported, against anything i thought would do damage to him. be selective, and use supporting units to reduce the number of attacks going in that can hurt him and he should be fine. plonking him in front of your opponents hardest unit and going, its ok armour 13 and 5+ inv will save me is asking for trouble. im not saying thats how youll play but people often confuse reiliant with immortal. ive never taken him, i normally have to shave some points from my list so it hasnt yet been an option, but i'd be interested to hear how he performs from those who use him Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coverfire Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I used him last night in a 2000 point battle verses Chaos, in which he found himself in Combat with Khârn the Betrayer for several round and then my opponents Bloodthirster joined in. We had an unlimited turn battle and I would say that Bjorn fought those two for maybe six combat rounds before becoming both immobilised and having his weapons destroyed. He only inflicted a single wound on Khârn the Betrayer. His survivability is outstanding, but is he 270 points worth? not really... Opponents work around him and throw monstrous creatures at him if you can use this fear tactic to your advantage then thats all good as he should be able to hold his own in combat for long enough for you forces to do some damage to the rest of his army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 I will probably run him in every 3000+ point game I play. I've had him against the bugs with his plasma cannon where he survived despite becoming immobilised and against Eldar where didn't se much kill his points back, but he attracted a lot of fire which didn't leave a scratch on him. Oh, and a seer council tried to take him on in combat. Silly them... He is useful, but you need to have a purpose for him thought out... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2171945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I saw his profile, I loved him! BS6 Plasma Cannon and a 5++ Save coupled with a Venerable reroll! First game he died first turn to a single Krak Missile. Making himself another Objective I had to deal with, and making all my guys Fearless, overriding Logan and Arjacs Stubborn. I've not used him since. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172250 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I like him... hes expensive... but what worries me is that I think alot of the time hell be worth alot dead... and thats bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 My Bjorn List i wanna try out next time: *************** 1 HQ *************** Bjorn the Fell-handed - Assault Cannon - - - > 270 Points Wolf Priest Rudgar - Wolf Tooth Necklace - Wolftail Talisman - - - > 115 Points *************** 3 Elite *************** Dreadnought Grimnir the Ancient - DCCW - heavy Flamer - Assault Cannon - Wolf Tooth Necklace - Wolftail Talisman - - - > 130 Points Dreadnought Harkoon - Missilelauncher - TLLC - - - > 145 Points Dreadnought Mikal - Missilelauncher - TLLC - - - > 145 Points *************** 3 Troops *************** Grey Hunter Pack Olaf 10 Grey Hunter - Melta - Melta - Power Fist - Wolfbanner + - Rhino - - - > 225 Points Grey Hunter Pack Jurgen 10 Grey Hunter - Plasmagun - Plasmagun - Power Fist + - Rhino - - - > 220 Points Blood Claw Pack Skjold 15 Blood Claws - Flamer - Flamer - Power Weapon - - - > 240 Points *************** 1 Heavy Support *************** Land Raider Crusader Thunderwolf - Multimelta - - - > 260 Points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172280 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I think using Bjorn, you want 1 or 2 support Deads, just to maybe protect him a little, but saying what can kill him doesn't help, it isn't even a reason not to use him, each HQ has its weakness, I also think support him with a Rune Priest or two :down: (especially againt Nids....) Maybe something like this: Bjorn Rune Priest (with Chooser) Rune Priest (in TDA or bare...) Dread Dread (arm these as you like them...) Grey Hunters (2 or 3, 10 man squads in Drop pods, with Meltas or Plasmas, and any other upgrades if you have the pionts...) that would all fit in a 1500 piont force, and give you a bit of extra room (maybe have 5 man squads with each of the Rune Priest, or 3 Wolf guard or something) Then deploy the Dreads and Rune priets together, (with Bjorn) you then have a really really nice base, that will focus all of the enemy's attention, and the Grey Hunters are free to do what they want :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalx the grey Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hey thanks for the comments, that has been very useful. I'll try to protect him with shooting against all those clear threats, it's not like I will send him unsupported :P. The army I'll play is mech for the most part so anything that is trying to kill Bjorn is not attacking my other (far less resilient) elements, which is good. Also I wouldn't say my army relies on Bjorn entirely, and I like the fluff about becoming fearless and having to protect his remainings to bring them back to the fang, it's very epic! I hope to get a game soon (It's been 10 years but I'm almost done painting ;) ). If I find myself victorious I will certainlt try to do a battle report and share the impressions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I used him last night in a 2000 point battle verses Chaos, in which he found himself in Combat with Khârn the Betrayer for several round and then my opponents Bloodthirster joined in. We had an unlimited turn battle and I would say that Bjorn fought those two for maybe six combat rounds before becoming both immobilised and having his weapons destroyed. He only inflicted a single wound on Khârn the Betrayer. His survivability is outstanding, but is he 270 points worth? not really... Opponents work around him and throw monstrous creatures at him if you can use this fear tactic to your advantage then thats all good as he should be able to hold his own in combat for long enough for you forces to do some damage to the rest of his army. Coverfire, Even if he didn't ultimately win the close combat, by locking down Khârn the Betrayer and a Bloodthirster into close combat for 6 rounds (3 regular Turns?), wouldn't you agree that he contributed significantly to the overall battle? You didn't say whether you won or lost this particular game, but either way Bjorn did a job, and did it fairly well. The question to ask is whether that was the job that you intended for him, and whether you could have accomplished it more efficiently with another unit instead. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindaris Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I would love the idea of having a Dread in charge of my army. But it would help alot if he could take a pod.... eventually though I might make one regardless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'm going to make my next list around him Hope he works out, he is the one getting me in this game :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalx the grey Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hey Max, since you are giving it a serious thought, would you mind commenting on the list I prepared to go with him? Are you thinking in something similar or completely different? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woulfeheart Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 He strikes me as a great character to take in Capture and Control missions. Just bunker down on your objective, and your opponent won't so much as scratch the point off Bjarn for fear of giving you a second objective marker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172909 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 He strikes me as a great character to take in Capture and Control missions. Just bunker down on your objective, and your opponent won't so much as scratch the point off Bjarn for fear of giving you a second objective marker. I really like that. Bjorn + Full Grey Hunters Pack with 2x Plasma Guns and attached WGL with TDA and CML on and Objective in Cover, in a Capture and Control mission = "I win". V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I actually see nothing wrong with taking him. I'd agree that if you take enough armor, he may seem less threatening. Maybe take a LRC, Bjorn rhino GH's, and something fast so if the enemy is wasting time taking out hard to kill armor you threaten them quickly with something that is nasty and fast. Not sure of the right mix for the right balance. --- I really like that. Bjorn + Full Grey Hunters Pack with 2x Plasma Guns and attached WGL with TDA and CML on and Objective in Cover, in a Capture and Control mission = "I win". Hmmm that sounds very nice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Eldars, and their haywire granades... And their lances, that will bring your armour down. yeah but not that many things have lances or haywire grenades do they? in closecombat the lowest strength something can have to hurt him is S7 right? making him perfect for killing characters! not many of them have powerfists etc Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I run him with Plasmacannon, cant pass up on that BS6 blast for no add. cost. Oh yeah he also camps on my objective and is hard to get rid of in 1000 points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2172990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjugin Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 AP1 weapons and monstrous creatures is the only things that can kill him with some sort of reliability. Bjorn shouldn't fear tactical marines with power fists or a single lascannon. Bjorn needs to be aggressive and take some risks in order to justify that 270 points price tag for a assault cannon. Just watch out for monsters, multi melta and units with more than one melta gun and you should be fine most of the time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2173004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 His weakness is not his dieing it's hit points. He is the worlds biggest point sink. A 5+invuln save does nothing to make up that 270 point sinkhole. I can get 2 normal dreads and a kick butt wolf gaurd for his cost. And they will kill more them him. I think he is a hugely over priced model. Which is a shame cause most people do not take him for that reason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2173008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 quite honestly the piece of wargear that would tip the scales for me would be extra armor, with the reroll on the damage result table a stunned result is even more likely and extra armor would still allow the all important move and assault that would protect him. Now that brings up an interesting question, if a vehicle is stunned or shacking and thus can not move in the move phase, does that mean he is unable to assault during the assault phase? The plasma cannon option would allow him to get into the game on turn 1 and make it a viable weapon again, small blast template and 2d6 deviation has never been a reliable weapon for me. but a -6 deviation gives it a whole new perspective. When I first thought of running him, I considered putting a Iron Priest behind him with a couple servs to keep him on his feet moving and in a repaired state in addition he would provide support in an CC situation as well as a model to be in base with him for the objective marker issue. Running a squad of GH in front of him as a protective screen isn't a bad idea as he can still shoot over/though them but still receive the cover. Those are my thoughts on Bjorn. Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2173270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 His weakness is not his dieing it's hit points. He is the worlds biggest point sink. A 5+invuln save does nothing to make up that 270 point sinkhole. I can get 2 normal dreads and a kick butt wolf gaurd for his cost. And they will kill more them him. I think he is a hugely over priced model. Which is a shame cause most people do not take him for that reason. Venerable Dreadnaught with Heavy Flamer, Assault Cannon, Saga of Majesty, and WTT- 195pts. So 75pts for +1 AV in the front, wich is important on a walker since thats it Toughness stat. 5+ Invulnerable save, all the time. Reroll on deployment, and thus first turn options. The ability to get an additional objective in 2/3 games. WS 6, and BS 6 *dont forget your rerolls!* TWO Extra attacks. And he takes up an HQ slot instead of a precious elites slot. Oh, and his saga of majesty doesnt take up the 1 per army slot either. I think thats worth it, even with the -1 Iniative. Since hes still going before almost anything that can actually hurt him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183672-using-bjorn/#findComment-2173444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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