BCs+LRC.

[Grey Mage]

So.... 15 Bloodclaws in a LRC with a Powerfist and a Leash is a known, powerful unit. It hits like a Ton of Bricks... and costs an arm and a leg- with a WP to guide them your looking at 610pts with a MM.

 

So... has anyone considered an Alternative- 10 WG.

 

8 WG with PW, 2 WG with Powerfist, in a LRC- 560pts with a MM. 660pts wif you want a WP.

 

You get fewer attacks, but everything ignores armor, and you get more initial powerfist attacks AND more long term PF attacks if needed. You can even add in some combi-weapons on the fists if you like, and some wargear here and there if you dont care about cost to add to their survivability.

 

Thoughts?

 

Note: This is also a good one for those who dislike crusaders and would rather field such a unit in a LR or a Redeemer.

[SJumppanen]

Actualy, you are suposed to take Ragnar, not WP. Unless you take both...

 

Edit: Sorry, what i meant to say, was You are suposed to take Ragnar with WGs and possibly a WP.

[Vassakov]

With the changes to the BC's, this is certainly a more viable tactic. However, the great advantage of the BC model was that there was a lot of meat shielding, and the unit could happily absorb quite a bit of damage before falling over. Plus the whole 60 attacks on the charge, with rerolls to hit if a WP gets stuck in... I mean, thats going to make a mess.

[Mammon]

Not to mention that if you use the 15 man BC+LRC combo your using a Troops and Heavy slot rather than a much rarer Elite slot and a Heavy Slot. Those WG are better use spread out, they are a boon to any squad that can take them and increase their value incredibly. Seldom will you use all 6 Troops slots, but you will often want more elite slots!

 

I typically use a Redeemer or Standard LR and 8 to 9 BCs always with a WP (sometimes drop the 9th man for a WG with WCs). This unit typically shields the WG and WP from counter assaults while they deliver 8+ attacks at a model/unit I want to go down for the count. Following those is another 32 hits with rerolls.

[Grey Mage]

*Shrugs* Actually, you might just be using an elites slot alone. Since you can buy a Landraider as a transport for your WG.

 

In a Redeemer as an example- 32 hits with rerolls is 8 bloodclaws.

8 Wolf Gaurd with a Rune Priest- 32 hits with rerolls.

 

A WG hits as hard as a bloodclaw, but has more staying power. You dont even need to give them all PWs.... that was just an example for approximate points.

[Kreidian]

Ah the classic BCs Wolf Priest LRC combo. Personally I like throwing in a WG as well, usually with MoW for the maximum number of attacks. Getting to reroll all those rending attacks is extra nice to have.

 

No matter what the combination is well worth it, if you have the points to spare. I find anything less then 2000 points you're probably better off doing something different. But regardless it can kill just about any unit you can imagine.

 

A week ago I used this combination against a Dark Angels player. The BCs went up against a full Deathwing Terminator squad with a Terminator Interrogator-Chaplain and ended up completely wiping the floor with them. Just through the number of attacks that the other guy had to save against he managed to roll enough 1s to kill most of the squad. Because all but 2 models had powerfists in the Deathwing Squad, most of his terminators were dead before they could even attack. The 2 that were left after everything was said and done died to the extra wounds they received from being fearless and losing combat by so much.

 

This is pretty typical of what you'll see with this combination, really proves that BC's are not worthless in the new codex. Keep in mind that in the many tools we now have available, this particular tool is simply a sledgehammer. There is only one way to really use these guys. Point them at the unit you want to kill and let the carnage fly. Unfortunately they are really only good when they're assaulting. And there are ways your opponent can deal with them.

 

Taking out the LRC before they get in range is one way, however Land Raiders are always hard to kill and generally odds are you'll be able to get where you need to be.

 

More often I find that an opponent will just throw something at the unit that they're not prepared to deal with. Since you're usually going against infantry, they can throw a dreadnought at you, for example. If you put in a powerfist in the squad that will help. Or if you see your opponent is using a lot of dreads you can have your WP give the unit rerolls against them. However there's really not much you can really do with this unit. Other then the one special CC weapon, none of the options BCs get are really worth it. This is why I like to include a WG in the unit along with the WP if you can so you can add something more tailor made to whatever situation they may run into. A WG with a powerfist and a combi-melta can be a good choice here.

[Wispy]

I'd be reluctant to put anything but blood claws in their. Suppose this is an objective game - I'm going to send that land raider down to wherever my opponent is holding an objective, and I'm going to obliterate whoever is sitting on it. Because the blood claws are troop there is a good opportunity to capture that objective once the fighting is done.

 

I suppose you can get Logan for the same effect for WG, but that is unreasonably pricey.

 

grey Mage, you're always so down on blood claws! Give them a chance! :P

[Grey Mage]

Im down on Bloodclaws as a staple choice, but my current mech company has 12 BCs and a WP in a crusader- Im just throwing out a NEW tactic that we have now for abou the same points in our new codex.

 

Ive actually got 30 of the lil buggers, and Im saving for some skyclaws.

[muzzyman1981]

Grey Mage, you know I have always been a fan of the 15 BCs + leader in LRC. Granted BCs only get 1 PF now, they have enough attacks to rival that of a Ork mob but get to re-roll to hit with a WP (which I usually take with them). Give them the PF and the WP a Meltabomb and you have a unit that is hard to get rid of cause of numbers + power armor....and can deal with nigh anything on the table. Add to ALL that a armor 14 pill box with guns bristling, usually including a Multimelta and I believe that even in a 1500pt force they are worth it.

[Firedrake28]

Actualy, you are suposed to take Ragnar, not WP. Unless you take both...

 

Edit: Sorry, what i meant to say, was You are suposed to take Ragnar with WGs and possibly a WP.

 

Please God no. Ragnar might end up leaving the Blood Claws with less Attacks than normal. Any unit that Ragnar joins gets +D3 attacks on the charge - I assume this overrides the charge bonus that they're getting already?

[Grey Mage]

Grey Mage, you know I have always been a fan of the 15 BCs + leader in LRC. Granted BCs only get 1 PF now, they have enough attacks to rival that of a Ork mob but get to re-roll to hit with a WP (which I usually take with them). Give them the PF and the WP a Meltabomb and you have a unit that is hard to get rid of cause of numbers + power armor....and can deal with nigh anything on the table. Add to ALL that a armor 14 pill box with guns bristling, usually including a Multimelta and I believe that even in a 1500pt force they are worth it.

Yeah muzzy- I know. This wasnt supposed to replace BCs... but be in the same vein. Against Necrons for instance, this would be alot more effective. If you wanted to run a Regular LR instead, this would be more potent... and if you needed to fit the unit in without using a HS slot... this is a good option.

 

Its also pretty nice with Logain.

[jimmyjames2112]

Actualy, you are suposed to take Ragnar, not WP. Unless you take both...

 

Edit: Sorry, what i meant to say, was You are suposed to take Ragnar with WGs and possibly a WP.

 

Please God no. Ragnar might end up leaving the Blood Claws with less Attacks than normal. Any unit that Ragnar joins gets +D3 attacks on the charge - I assume this overrides the charge bonus that they're getting already?

yes its a terrible idea for the attacks. but furious charge makes up for it.. but i still cant justify a stuck in guy like Ragnar for 245 points. ive seen him owned hard by 80 point Black Templar Marshalls too many times for me to ever run him. that said. Im a huge fan of the 15BC + WP. i use one. but only one. if i were to run ragnar i would run him with GH's x 10 with a fist, a WG with a fist, and Ragnar in a Redeemer,,, youch!

[WG Vrox]

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with 10 PW WG with 4 attacks on the charge rerolling to hit with a WP. Even TDA/character units would struggle to hold their own against such a pack due to the sheer number of power weapon attacks the unit could put out. If you are considering such a unit, you might as well fill the LRC up and take 2 of your WG in TDA, so drop the PF in favor of 2 TDA WG with HF/CF.

 

Vrox

[muzzyman1981]

@ Grey Mage - Ah ok....in that case yeah =)

[eyeslikethunder]

I have been looking to put together a WG assault squad like this. I used to have one in 3rd and it was awesome.

Ah i was dreaming of ragnar with a WG bodyguard up to 63 no save attacks at +1 str and I 5

but at 750 pts seemed a bit much but it could kill a lot

 

on good ragnar charge so 6 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 22.2 marines

on average ragnar charge so 5 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 18.65

on poor ragnar charge so 4 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 15.32 marines

[Valerian]

I have been looking to put together a WG assault squad like this. I used to have one in 3rd and it was awesome.

Ah i was dreaming of ragnar with a WG bodyguard up to 63 no save attacks at +1 str and I 5

but at 750 pts seemed a bit much but it could kill a lot

 

on good ragnar charge so 6 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 22.2 marines

on average ragnar charge so 5 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 18.65

on poor ragnar charge so 4 attacks each they would kill on average with rags 15.32 marines

 

 

My personal opinion here, but I'd say that this is way overboard, and would actually work against you in a battle. Instead, I recommend trying to "manage" your close combat potential such that you do significant damage to an enemy unit on the turn that you charge, but do not destroy it. If you destroy it, then your very expensive Wolf Guard assault unit with Ragnar (all in Power Armour) are exposed to all of the enemy fire that they can muster in their following shooting phase (which will probably be everything they've got, and will be very bad for you). Instead, design the unit to destroy about 7 or so Marines (or equivilants) on your charge, and expect that you ought to get the remaining 3 or 4 during the enemy's assault phase. Having destroyed the unit in the enemy's turn, your unit will then be free to Move and Assault again in your following turn, having been protected from enemy fire throughout.

 

With this in mind, a Wolf Guard unit with 2 or 3 Power Weapons and a ThunderHammer for special close combat weapon upgrades would be preferable. Not only is it significantly cheaper, it leaves you with several unupgraded ("slick") 18 point Wolf Guard to act as cannon fodder for wound allocation. This leaves you with a unit that can still effectively accomplish it's mission as your premier assault element, while leaving you enough points to use for the other units in your army to arm and equip them well enough to accomplish their jobs, as well.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[eyeslikethunder]

My personal opinion here, but I'd say that this is way overboard,

With this in mind, a Wolf Guard unit with 2 or 3 Power Weapons and a ThunderHammer for special close combat weapon upgrades would be preferable. Not only is it significantly cheaper, it leaves you with several unupgraded ("slick") 18 point Wolf Guard to act as cannon fodder for wound allocation. This leaves you with a unit that can still effectively accomplish it's mission as your premier assault element, while leaving you enough points to use for the other units in your army to arm and equip them well enough to accomplish their jobs, as well.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

totally agree(as i said in my post) it was mad wonderful dream of total destruction :devil: . When I worked the numbers i like WOW a SW unit can do that :) Fear us unworthy foes . but I never been one for fielding uber units I perfer a nice balanced force. but i can but dream. Strangley you have just suggested is what I'm have just finished building at plus storm shield to save against the pf attacks. Great minds think alike ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I love masses of power armour as TROOPS so 15 BC get a thumbs up from me.

 

The WG are an excellent unit, especially with Logan, but my thinking is somewhat like Valerian's - maybe too killy....?

 

They are both t4 3+sv and you get more BC for your money. There is nothing quite like a lot of something.

 

Maybe if a unit is too much for 15 BC and needs 10 WG then it probably could do with a dose of Vindicator medicine anyway & then the BC will be able to get them....