jamsight Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I ran a 1500pt list the other day with 3 Thunderwolves and they didn't perform all that great 1st time around was all my fault charging the ten termies looked like a tactial genius at the time lol. But in the next game I sent them up aginst some eldar Storm guardians and a wave serpent and agian they didn't really pack the punch I was expecting I would appriate any insight that you can give me. I am going to try adding a Battle leader with a powerfist next time around Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Don't be in such a hurry to throw your Battle Leader's I5 away with a powerfist. Give him a frost blade. He'll be making 6 S6 attacks most of the time. Hide them until they're ready to assault. Keep them next to bigger, scarier targets - Like dreadnought a or vindicator. It takes the focus off of them. With a 12 inch charge, your opponent will usually think he's okay and over extend himself. That's when you attack! I ran a WL with Frost Blade + BP, Belt of Russ and TWM with a single TWC with TH and SS. There killed killed a tactical squad and librarian all on their own in one round of combat. Next turn a dreadnought assaulted them and they killed that, too. Their were only two of them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2171982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ullr Direfang Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Before any real advice can be give, how were they loaded out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2171992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamsight Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 I like what your saying about the I5 that would give me the drop on most thing I think. As for loadout I just had 150pts spare so decided to add them they didn't have any up grades. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2171993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I like what your saying about the I5 that would give me the drop on most thing I think. As for loadout I just had 150pts spare so decided to add them they didn't have any up grades. As the others have said, it is a good idea for one of the TWC to have a high-strength weapon (a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer) - His attacks will do a lot of damage to any unit and threatens everything in the game. The Lord should probably have a Frost Blade to retain his Initiative 5 attacks; his Strength 6 will still wound Marines and other T4 units on anything but a roll of a 1 on the d6, just like a Power Fist would. If you have enough points left, another TWC with a Storm Shield is handy to get allocated any high-strength/low AP attacks to that would otherwise hurt your more important Power Fist guy, or your Wolf Lord. It is important to equip the unit properly to allow it to do the job that you intend it to do. It looks like you tried to send the unit to take on tasks that it wasn't designed for (didn't have the appropriate upgrades). If you don't have the points to equip the unit properly, then you aren't setting yourself up for success. Instead, look to trim points from other units in your army to free up what you need (providing that you don't make another unit ineffective in the process) or look for another, cheaper unit to do the job that you wanted the TWC to do, and use the substitutes instead. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2172724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormbrow II Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 How was the unit equipped? I take it that you were taking advantage of the wound allocation rules to keep models alive from shooting? Maybe it was just the fact that you only have 3 of them so they were too weak to do any real damage to the enemy, although charging them at a Terminator squad (I'm assuming Storm Shields on the unit) isn't a great idea at the best of times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2172784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira316 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I've had a lot of success using Thunderwolf Cavalry as an anti-troop unit. I take a full unit plus Canis Wolfborn, charge them into a nearby squad and watch said squad disappear. I've also spent an additional 100 points on upgrades to the unit so that each of them is different allowing me to allocate wounds across the entire squad. In my last game they killed a full squad of Assault Marines and a full Tactical Squad and only took two wounds the entire game. They may not always get their points back but they are game changers once they're in your opponent's lines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2172845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I've used them as a sort of TH/SS assault squad. 3 guys with SS and one TH, attach a WGBL with Frost Blade (or even dual wolfclaws) and you can tear up almost anything in the game. 12 in charge is the key. You can also try what some other people have suggested, namely take 4 of them plain and add a TH for dreads and raiders (being a s10 TH is nice). They will get shot at by anybody who knows what they're doing, so the key is to have duality or target saturation: i.e. bring two squads (like you would with TH/SS terms) or being a lot of other tanks and or dreads to give mobile cover and a lot of nasty targets. TWC can actually be too good at killing squads, remember you want to allocate your attacks so that you're locked in combat at the end of your assault, but not with so many guys that you can't break free at the end of the opponent's assault. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2172896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamsight Posted November 2, 2009 Author Share Posted November 2, 2009 thanks for the tip perhaps I could rework my list drop the wolfguard bodyguards and give my lord the mount and a few more wolves to add that extra punch I might even have change after that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howling Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Well I've used my Thunderwolves 4 times until now, equipped with SS+TH, a SS, and one with basic equipment... Until now I've done very well with this list, sometimes I would add a meltabomb to the guy with basic equipment, but that's not really that important... I run the unit with my wolflord with dual wolf claws...... Last battle (against thousand sons) this unit tore right through a great demon, 1 1/2 units of thousand sons (including a mage or two..) a rhino, two squads of 2 obliterators...yeah well that's it ^^ of course that was about half of my enemies army O.o So until now I can only say....thunderwolves are awesome....but then I've never lost a single game since using the new dex...so yeah... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 you haven't faced me then ^^. i would personally use wolves if i wanted to for fun games. give them all SS and one with a power fist and stick in a lord with a TW and a frost blade and melta bomb. saga of the warrior born helps as well. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newobmij Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 IMHO, the best way to field Thunderwolves is three vanilla (bolt pistol + ccw), and one with either a frost blade or power sword if you plan on using them to kill infantry (your cice depending on enemy toughness and points available). NEVER ASSAULT TERMINATORS WITH THEM. The other tactic I've used to good result, is to just take one Thunderwolf with a power fist and have him follow your land raider and charge any vehicle that gets near. 6 s10 attacks on anything will usually result in a destroyed vehicle. I never give them storm shields, as they can take a hit from a lascannon or power fist (from a S4 character) and only lose 1 wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 you never use ss for them? then seriously must be playing average opponents. TWC without storm shields are easy kills to me and i kill them as quickly as a bolter range hits a grots head ^^. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173816 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yeah, but the SS doesn't help against torrent of fire (since a 3+ is as good as 3++ against most torrent weapons. To overcome fire saturation you need either more wounds or to be in combat right away. I still take the SS though because I hate getting guys picked down by Las and Melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2173982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 you never use ss for them? then seriously must be playing average opponents. TWC without storm shields are easy kills to me and i kill them as quickly as a bolter range hits a grots head ^^.thanks antique_nova It doesn't really matter unless you're killing them with Vindicators or S10 Power Weapons. I get torn by SS on TWC. Sometimes I love them. Sometimes I use the points from the SS on more TWC. For things like Plasma hits, just stick them on the IC attached to the squad (who should have at least a 4++ save). But let the Las/Meltas just take a single wound off a TWC. More TWC will help survive torrents, SS will help survive Plasma Cannons or up. It all really depends on what you face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
obs0l3te Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'd have to agree with Antique_Nova.... My thunderwolves did one thing really well, took up about half of a tau players shooting in order to kill them all.. lost 4 TWC + canis in one whole turn. while the unit wasn't in the open, I just couldn't get to the tau player with out comming out a little. Mass weapon fire is a great way to destroy TWC. i.e. 20 fire warriors, at range 18. or 30 guardsmen at range 20. throw a few of your bigger "ap 3, 2, 1" weapons in there.. yeah. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You can say that about any marine unit stuck out in the open or foot slogging - bikers, jump packs, deep striking termies, etc. The only thing against heavy shooters like tau or guard that I actually feel keeps my army sort of safe in the march is something that is either out flanking or in a land raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 trust me, if you faced a gt player. your wolfes would be puppy mash before they got a sniff of the fight. especially against me and it wouldn't hinder the rest of my armies shooty or assault at any time of the game. you need to know that just because you win, it doesn;'t necessarily mean your list is good, it just means you can handle that level of experienced players. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Level Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 trust me, if you faced a gt player. your wolfes would be puppy mash before they got a sniff of the fight. especially against me and it wouldn't hinder the rest of my armies shooty or assault at any time of the game. you need to know that just because you win, it doesn;'t necessarily mean your list is good, it just means you can handle that level of experienced players.thanks antique_nova I'm sure that if you are as great a player as you keep saying you are, then perhaps you could add to the thread by suggesting some tactics on how to best use Thunderwolf cavalry rather than boasting about your ability to destroy them. :tu: These guys are a very powerful unit if they are used correctly. some things to watch out for though: People will be scared of them so they will draw a lot of fire - counter this by varying up the wargear so that wounds can be spread around the unit and by getting more thunderwolves. At Toughness 5 there is very little out there that will instant kill them so storm shields are possibly a bit of a point sink. you could get an extra thunderwolf for every two shields you buy so you are weighing up the extra chance of a model surviving against possibly alot more attacks. besides if you keep them in cover or behind fenrisian wolves you get a 4++ save anyway. don't over estimate their ability, they still need to work with the rest of your army and it is possibly asking a bit much if you just charge them out without any support. they can certainly do a lot of damage but if they are the only threat presented they will be easily destroyed one way or another. there need to be other threatening targets presented at the same time that split the enemy fire and improve your cavalry's chances of making it into combat without taking to much of a beating. some examples would be Vindicators and long fangs (huge fire magnets), transports carrying troops and other special charachters etc. the more the enemy has to worry about the less he will be able to concentrate on a single target. happy hunting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 smack me when i get a bit my moouth gets abit big. i have already given my advice. i think. Composition SS for each TWC and give one of them a power fist and never have them in groups large than 3 because then they become over expensive and become a points sinker ( 3 members max not including wolf lord etc attachments ). the TWC take care of any MC and tanks while their SS makes them near invulnerable. i would suggest adding a Wolf battle leader or lord with warrior born saga ( saga only if you ahve the points ) and a frost blade. because I6? is it, is very handy :lol:. Tactics I would hide them in a wall of rhinos or land raider ( not multiple land raiders ), if you have 2 land raiders of any type in the list in 1500 forget the TWC, because it's too many points. if you face a CC army. hide them behind big units like vindicators because that is what they will most likely target or whirlwinds etc. and remember you don't need the TWC assaulting every turn. expect them to fgiht for may be 1-2 turns. no more. because not every close combat army is fast. also never get sucked into to take out cheap units and get charged by mega nobs and genestealers. with TWC you only get one chance to hit the hard targets or make a difference. let the GH do the job of mobbing up the weaker guys and let your TWC hang back to reinforce the lines or keep watch of MC that could be using weaker units to bait your GH or BC squads. When to use them? i would only consider using them in 500 points with a power fist and storm shields and nothing else not even a lord attachment. and 1500+. if you want more than a squad of them. then make sure they are again no bigger than 3 per squad and make sure the games are 2500+ not 2000. Due to experience, because they are a points sinker they are only good in games where there is so much to shoot or not enough AP weapons to shoot with. not a very clear tactica, not in detail, but presentation. hope it helps! thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2174811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i would only consider using them in 500 points with a power fist and storm shields and nothing else not even a lord attachment. The problem you have there (and I've not run a SW list without TWC yet), is that any good player will Pin you with your Ld8. They will focus all sorts of pinning weapons, espcially snipers/scouts (for the ability to ignore T5) on the squad, just to slow it down and stop it reaching thier lines. You add a WL on a TWM to give them Ld10, to abate this a little. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2175194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapperDave Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Leave the storm shields at home - bring a pack of Wolves instead to use as a screening unit. Sure it's a 4+ instead of a 3+ but you're getting a whole 'nother unit with which to wreak havoc with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2175213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
antique_nova Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 and that's jsut another easy kill point. you won't find that working against me. However, Gentlemanloser any good player won't rely on pinning to win games. small games may be debatable. but i faced a TWC list in 600 points and 500 points. i had no problems against them, but when i told the guy the how to improve the list. it was significantly hard to beat, but i still managed it quite comfortably, because i had alot of ap weapons. i was playing guard at the time. Seriously, if your gonna play TWC cavalry against an experienced player or gt standards. then SS is a must. thanks antique_nova Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/183707-thuderwolf-tactics/#findComment-2175903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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