Pooling your Knowledge of DH part2

[Gibious]

A week has gone, so now its time to discuss the many builds for the GK heroes. Both the Brother Captain AND the Grand Master

 

True forces to be reckon with. Wielding terminator armour and NFW's, able to deepstrike and has a large quantity of wargear to wield. Not to forget their retuine. So how do you take yours?

 

Please include the following information:

Layout Name: First come first served to name the layout officially.

Equipment and Additional Others: What you equiping him with? Does he sit in a squad? Also please mention here if you use Delivery LandRaiders

Use in game: Description of how its intended to be used

Effectivity: Open to all who has used this layout or very similar. Did it work for you? Include a score out of 10 (will average it to top post)

Enjoyability: Once again open to all. Did it take the fun out the game for you and/or your opponent? Also please score out of 10

 

Here is what has been provided so far:

 

Reach Out and Touch Someone

Brother Captain w/Psycannon attached to 4 or 5 man GKT squad with another BC Psycannon and a regular Psycannon. Usually throw hammerhand and a hood in there if points allow (on the elite BC because he gets the retinue rule).

Variation: Can save points if needed by using just the BC and a retuine, still 6 str6 psycannon shots. Also one Terminator may not miss his storm bolter if you swap for a THSS

3x Psycannons hang back and provide mobile long range support. And countercharge if needed which they excel at. Alternativly can deepstrike behind enemy lines to disrupt everything, unlike normal terminators ROTS can happily pop a tank/dread the turn it arrives, then procede to carve up all the soft support units/ tearing through more tanks with hammerhand OR if there is not any left, send in some support fire to your own front lines 36" range rember.

Effectiveness. 8.5 Huge thorn in the side of any army. Great ranged support, scary in cc and durable as hell. Just be aware that the 1 wound BC does not get the retinue rule but at ranged that is not such a big deal. With the shrouding the unit can survive a LOT of punishment, and being able to move grants a 42" range/ the ability to still minimise enemy LOS. 8 if you DS, being more reliant on the role of a dice and not fireing every turn, yet still high because of the new posiblities of what you can shoot at.

Enjoyability: 9 Blow up a vindicator the turn I arrive and next turns kill off their Heavy weapons team. Expencive and Risky

 

Bruce Lee

Grand Master w/MCNFW, Icon, Relic, Incinerator, Incense. Maybe hood if you have points or really need it.

4-7 man GKT retinue with another incinerator

Deployed from Crusader w/smoke. Our Crusader makes this unit shine as the DH version is the best tank in the game period.

Variation. IMO I find GM very expencive and try to keep the upgrades to a minimum, only take what you belive you need.

Effectiveness. 9. Not really sure I have to go into detail with this... Crusaders always keep moving to make them hard to hit. Blow smoke when needed. Eventually drive up, unleash fury with all the crusader weaponry. A favorite tactic of anyone using this unit is to drive up to an enemy transport, blow it up with the crusader and then use the GKT inside to massacre whatever it was inside the transport. There is no denying it, what ever you charge this squad out into, will die a painfull death. And if on the ball, you can potentialy get that charge turn 1-2. Just make sure afterwards they dont get shot to death, and you'll do fine.

 

AntiPsyker

BC. Psychic hood and Unsurgents, Targeter, Meltabombs.

Use in game: Used as a regular hero, but completely shuts down opposing powers. One can add ten points to upgrade the unsergents to a Null Rod, but then you must give up the Storm Bolter or Nemesis Force Weapon, both hard to give up. With the Ageis/hood AND unsurgents against harmful powers and the hood against normal powers, you'll do fine. The melta-bomb is for popping any land raider psykers might be hiding in- I like it better than hammerhand.

A cheep GK Hero!!! Granting a little extra CC punch and Psyker resistance to whatever squad he joins. And also provides an army wide restance to all Psykers.

Effectivity: 7/10. It has worked well for shutting down psykers, but adds little else to the hero. Against non-psyk armies it is a bit of wasted points, but eldar/chaos hate you. Also being without retuine and 1 wound could be easilly targeted and killed.

Enjoyability: I enjoyed the feeling of my GM protecting him and his units. It added a very pious feel to the hero.

 

Dont forget to review

 

-Gib-

[silversmith82]

#1 Reach Out and Touch Someone

Brother Captain w/Psycannon attached to 4 or 5 man GKT squad with another BC Psycannon and a regular Psycannon. Usually throw hammerhand and a hood in there if points allow (on the elite BC because he gets the retinue rule).

3x Psycannons hang back and provide mobile long range support. And countercharge if needed which they excel at.

Effectiveness. 8-9. Huge thorn in the side of any army. Great ranged support, scary in cc and durable as hell. Just be aware that the 1 wound BC does not get the retinue rule but at ranged that is not such a big deal.

 

#2 Bruce Lee

Grand Master w/MCNFW, Icon, Relic, Incinerator, Incense, Hammerhand. Maybe hood if you have points or really need it.

4-7 man GKT retinue with another incinerator

Deployed from Crusader w/smoke. Our Crusader makes this unit shine as the DH version is the best tank in the game period.

Effectiveness. 10. Not really sure I have to go into detail with this... Crusaders always keep moving to make them hard to hit. Blow smoke when needed. Eventually drive up, unleash fury with all the crusader weaponry. A favorite tactic of anyone using this unit is to drive up to an enemy transport, blow it up with the crusader and then use the GKT inside to massacre whatever it was inside the transport.

 

#3 Break on Through (to the other side!)

Grand Master as above or well Equipped BC w/psycannon

4-9 man GKT retinue w/ psycannon

Lock on to a teleport homer from allied SM scout bikes or scout marines. Drop in, proceed to pwn.

Effectiveness. 8-10. Don't have to pay points for the Crusader and don't have to worry about scattering death. Deployments, logistics etc... can mess you up though plus you have no fancy los blocking with no crusader and are stuck footslogging once down.

 

edit: Proceed to pwn is honestly up to the player. They are a unit that is going to rock in just about any scenario not involving genestealers or some super high initiative eldar flunkie. Generally I have seen this (not played myself since I prefer the direct approach with the crusader) deep strike in and unload a flurry of shots at a big infantry unit or rear armor on a Russ/Pred etc... 8 stormbolters and 2 psycannons will rip up a tac squad/average guard platoon. Maybe not a mob of 50 boyz but then... you should not put them in that situation lol. Next player turn they go a-charging into cc and wreck whatever it is they are charging at. It just sucks leaving things out in the open after a deep strike and this I DO have experience with. Hence my preference for the Crusader lol.

 

 

Those are really the only variations I can think of and that I've used or seen used. Back in 4th ed with the different independent character rules you used to be able to teleport a single BC with psycannon and he could not be targeted by shooting which was the sex. Alas, now he'd just get mowed down.

[Ferrus Manus]

Ah, don't worry. Very, very broken. Refer to 'Bruce Lee' build.

[Brother Swas]

This may be rare, as so far my GK are completely without transport.

 

Layout Name: AntiPsyker

Equipment and Additional Others: Works for a GM or BC. Psychic hood and Ungluents, Targeter, Meltabombs.

Use in game: Used as a regular hero, but completely shuts down opposing powers. One can add ten points to upgrade the ungluents to a Null Rod, but then you must give up the Storm Bolter or Nemesis Force Weapon, both hard to give up. With the Ageis/hood AND ungluents against harmful powers and the hood against normal powers, you'll do fine. The melta-bomb is for popping any land raider psykers might be hiding in- I like it better than hammerhand.

Effectivity: 7/10. It has worked well for shutting down psykers, but adds little else to the hero. Against non-psyk armies it is a bit of wasted points, but eldar/chaos hate you.

Enjoyability: I enjoyed the feeling of my GM protecting him and his units. It added a very pious feel to the hero.

 

Layout Name: Overseer

Equipment and Additional Others: Teleports in. Has Artifact of +1 attack, Matercrafted Nemesis force weapon and a psycannon

Use in game: He comes in and tried to be in the counter-charge unit. He's close enough to the screening unit to have his artifact help them out, then he pushes forward to engage. Makes the deceptively strong assault phase stand of GKs even more badass.

Effectivity:Limited testing so far. Will report back as a significant amount of testing is done

Enjoyability: 6/10. Kinda a nasty surprise for your opponent, and heartbreaking when the roll is too bad to do anything/ the way the game plays out, the artifact isn't worth much. Still, when it works it is fun for you.

[Gibious]

Ahh some very interesting builds already. Will update top post when I get time tomorrow.

 

silversmith82:

Your first entry is very impressive indeed, maximising Psycannons. I do how ever have a problem with your use of Allied Teleport Fury "proceed to pwn" to be precise. Please can you elaborate on how you have used them?

Also this topic is part of a series. If you would like to comment on the Inq Lord please do it HERE

 

Ferrus Manus:

Im guessing yours is a variation of the Bruce Lee. How does the second Force weapon help?

 

Brother Swas:

Are both your layouts just the single Hero walking around alone? Not even in a squad of GK?

 

-Gib-

[Justicar Valius]

Layout Name: Simply dead daemons

Equipment and Additional Others: GM with a retinue of 3 GKT with SB and one with incinerator. delivary LRC

Use in game: quite literally. CHARGE AND KILL!

Effectivity: Kills anything short of Abaddon even then you might take down some of his squad. quite pricey though. 8/10

Enjoyability: 10/10. the loook on your opponents face is worth 9.9 and the extra 0.1 is because of everything else.

 

Now then, why the extra force weapon? why not just an extra combat weapon? i dont understand is this not for 5th? (also i seem to remember force weapon = INQ and INQ lord only

 

Teleport fury is illegal unles you are playing apocalypse due to using grey knights andallied SM

 

also no meltabombs for models in terminator armour

[Brother Swas]

@Gib- That's the part I find dubious about listing- my HQs tend to float from squad to squad based on casualties and where they are needed. The Overseer stays in the second from frond combat-ready squad, usually. When he assaults, he may pop out to help the first unit, or hit a second unit.

 

The anti-psyker can hide by himself from sight, or join whatever squad is most likely to suffer warp-based wrath. Neither unit has a dedicated force they always run with.

[Ferrus Manus]

Ferrus Manus:

Im guessing yours is a variation of the Bruce Lee. How does the second Force weapon help?

Now then, why the extra force weapon? why not just an extra combat weapon? i dont understand is this not for 5th? (also i seem to remember force weapon = INQ and INQ lord only

Ah, dammit. You are correct. I will be suitable chastised next time I meet up with the others. I really should check my Codex. The answer is to just change it to a Power Weapon (so that if I split attacks it will still be able to ignore armour saves.). I will edit it and do some testing during the week. Apologies guys.

[silversmith82]

Teleport fury is illegal unles you are playing apocalypse due to using grey knights andallied SM

 

No, the GKT are allied INTO a SM army which is totally legal. And yes no meltabombs on termies. They get enough crap to tear open tanks lol. But that stupid TINY asterisk should have been made a little more... like noticible. I had targeters on my termies for the longest time... Sad was the day I found out I couldn't use them. My fault but GW could have bolded the stupid asterisk'd line in the rules for dummys like me lol.

 

Edited my "proceed to pwn" at the end of the teleport squad. Also ditched the Inquisitor builds as I didn't realize this was the same person who made the other thread.

 

Also edited my names to more creative names now that I've had a few hours to wake the hell up.

[Polaris]

Equipment and Additional Others: Works for a GM or BC. Psychic hood and Ungluents, Targeter, Meltabombs.

 

Models in terminator armor can not have melta bombs : (

[Lungboy]

so that if I split attacks it will still be able to ignore armour saves.

 

I'm not sure what you mean here. Adding a power weapon will have no effect, other than wasting points. All attacks are made with the same weapon, so if you split attacks they will all be Force/Power weapon attacks and will therefore all ignore armour saves. It won't even grant an extra attack, as you'd need a second NFW for that, which you can't buy.

[silversmith82]

Yeah this has been done to death numerous times. The GM/BC does NOT get another attack for a second weapon. Just master craft the NFW, odds are in 4 dice you're going to roll a 1 or 2 for one of them so you get the re-roll. This is basically identical to having a 5th attack. I just wish they'd update our storm shields to the 3+ invulnerable because a GK with a big storm shield is just epic looking. Honestly, refer to my Bruce Lee build. You don't need anything else besides what is in there and even that is a bit overkill with the relic. I just have the relic in there because every now and then you're going to come accross something that just NEEDS to die quickly. Relic+8 GKT on the charge=gg to really anything that isn't I6+.

[Gibious]

Updated top post and added my personal comments. Did research on the rules and the only way a GK hero can get an extra attack to his NFW is from the Storm sheild and even then only if your gaming groups agrees.

 

Edit: Deleted paragraph where I mistakenly belived HammerHand ignored Armour. After checking GW summery... No it doesn't

 

-Gib-

[silversmith82]

I disagree. Hammerhand does not ignore armor saves. Most things with T4 that you need str8 to instagib get 3+ saves (marines, chaos marines, necrons etc...) or better. Anything else is generally going to be T3 which the normal NFW will instagib while ignoring armor saves. As for the 3+, T4 models... Generally hit on a 3 (for your average marine), wound on a 2, no armor save. I'll take the NFW.

[Gibious]

I am under them impression that Hammerhand is still a power weapon. I will check tonite.

 

-Gib-

[silversmith82]

Specifically says in the power description that it does not ignore armor saves. I'm not saying do not take it. It is a good idea for a backup against a vehicle heavy army although if you are in a LRC, the LRC should be able to nuke whatever vehicle you come up against. It IS the only legit way to get an extra attack with the BC/GM. You'd get 5, S8 attacks with a Hammerhand GM. Just no armor saves... I'd personally take the NFW unless its like a horde of really low save models which is what incinerators are for...

 

edit: I did forget to add hammerhand to the units I originally listed. As I said, I generally take it as a backup plan or to kill vehicles so nobody in the retinue has to give up their NFW for a TH. And yeah it does give the BC instagib capability vs multi wound T4 models as long as they fail their armor save. For multi wound models, figure on needing 4+ to hit, 2 to wound and then almost always at LEAST a 66% chance for them to save with a 3+. Not sure what this=out to but the GM/Stern NFW is still light years ahead.

[sheisaguy]

Would like to add a little something in regards to Hammerhands. It is your only saving grace against walkers (especially Ironclads) in close combat assuming none of your terminator retinue has a thunder hammer. Now I know it doesn't happen all that often, but for the odd occasion that it does (getting charged by defilers has happened to me quite a bit) it will definitely save your bacon.

[Gibious]

Ahh it did sound too good to be true, I will amend my post with misleading information. HammerHand is still a no brainer for my "Reach Out"

 

I too have been caught a plenty by defilers.

 

-Gib-

[silversmith82]

Yeah I forgot to include it on my "Bruce Lee" build. I almost always take it as it is a great built in safety for killing walkers or if you just want to be really REALLY sure you're going to tear a vehicle apart lol.

[silversmith82]

Here's another one I came up with just recently and I only recently paid attention (thanks to a post on these forums) to the DH FAQ that states BC Stern (and Coteaz) do not count towards their respective 0-1 HQ limits. Note, that I have not played this, however it is basically a Bruce Lee x2.

 

Double Dragon:

 

HQ1

Grand Master w/Incinerator or Psycannon (whichever floats your proverbial boat), hood, MCNFW, Icon, Hammerhand

-Retinue of 4-7 GKT w/weapon matched to GM (incinerator or psycannon)

Used like the Bruce Lee build (which it is), put it in a Crusader

 

HQ2

Brother Captain Stern

-Retinue of 4-7 GKT w/incinerator

Used the same way, put in a Crusader

 

Stern is GM Lite. Same great taste but less filling. His NFW counts as wielded by a Grandmaster, he has the same initiative 5 and comes with holocaust and hammerhand. He has 1 less wound (2) and 1 less attack (3) but gets to re roll any dice roll once PER PHASE. Only thing is that your opponent gets the same re-roll rule every time Stern uses his re-roll. Really something to only be used like... well I'm not sure when. Probably something catastrophic like a failed psychic test or a horriffic 1,1,2 or some such on his to hit rolls vs something big/multi wound model that he'd probably wound (fex, prince, typhus etc...) and then get to take a psychic test on to put it down for good. In that case it'd be worth it. Stern's 2 wounds are really not a big deal because of the retinue rule.

 

This is alot points wise but imagine what you'd do to a zidzilla army with TWO Grandmasters (for all intents and purposes)! You might say, "why take Stern? he is way more than a BC, can't take wargear, BC has the same attacks/ws etc..." Instant kill FW capability and I5. Take an =][= with a force weapon and that's 3 force weapons in 1 army!

[sheisaguy]

@Silversmith82

That definitely seems worth a shot at 1750 pt games and above, giving you 2 pretty awesome hammer units in crusaders. Have you tried it out yet?

 

On the issue of Hammerhands, it just occured to me that maybe Hammerhands is worth using against Ork Nobz (especially those on bikes)? Being Strength 8, it negates their FnP, easier for you to wound them, leaving them with only a 4+ armour save. For each 4+ save that they fail 1 Nob DIES! The potential to kill 6 Nob Bikers from 1 guy in combat sounds pretty tempting...

[maturin]

Layout Name: Leader of Men

Equipment and Additional Others: GKBC with Psycannon, Psychic Hood. Allied into combined inducted IG squad of 20-50 men, HW teams optional.

Use in game: Objective holder, provides anti-psyker protection, Leadership 10 for the men, and NFW attacks once mobbed into combat.

Effectivity: 8 Against MEQ, can be quite effective in evening the odds for the poor infantrymen. A few extra dead MEQ's each turn adds up, and leadership 10 prevents running away. Good anti-infantry firepower when combined with Guard Orders. Just stay away from power weapons/power fists!

Enjoyability: 10. Everyone loves to see guardsmen take on MEQ's....even when they die, but especially when they win.

[f.desrochers]

My 1700 point and 2000 point list uses any of the two following load-outs:

 

Both are typically in addition to my Inquisitor Lord, so I try to keep 'em cheap so my HQ slots don't amount for too much of the pie, so to speak.

 

Layout Name: BC Stern

Equipment and Additional Others: GKT retinue of 4 w/ a psycannon (option: TH/SS).

Use in game: They really are my counter-moves unit. Most times they Deep Strike into the game, providing the psycannon and storm bolter shots as required or coming in from the edge to give mobile fire support on the advance. Although I have an LRC at 2000 points, it's reserved for my PAGK squad.

Efficacy (7.5): I'd only rate it a 7 for what I get out of it, probably an 8 from the enemy's perspective. At 350 points it is reasonably priced for the GM-level NFW and the Hammerhand/Holocaust powers. They certainly are the cream of the crop of TDA units.

Enjoyability (9): I've actually never had the chance to use Stern's force weapon, but I hear no end of arguements about it. Quite frankly though, this units does what it's supposed to do and very well; soak up fire, provide mobile fire support and a CC-monster.

 

Layout Name: GM Lite

Equipment and Additional Others: GM: Master-crafted NFW, psycannon, GKT retinue of 4 w/ a psycannon (option: TH/SS).

Use in game: They really are my counter-moves unit. Most times they Deep Strike into the game, providing the psycannon and storm bolter shots as required or coming in from the edge to give mobile fire support on the advance. Although I have an LRC at 2000 points, it's reserved for my PAGK squad.

Efficacy (7.5): I'd only rate it a 7 for what I get out of it, probably an 8 from the enemy's perspective. Still reasonably priced and still the cream of the crop.

Enjoyability (9): Again, this units does what it's supposed to do and very well; soak up fire, provide mobile fire support and a CC-monster.

 

;francois

[Red Lost Soldier]

I don't have a great deal of experience with GKT but I'll chip in.

 

Layout Name:GKT Assault

Equipment and Additional Others: Brother Captain, NFW/SB, 4 GKT Retinue, 1 TH/SS. LR Redeemer/Crusader

Use in game: Basically use like standard Assault Terminators. Keep them (relatively) cheap and get some NFW action in.

Effectivity: Varies. Maybe 7, they tend to be overkill against most things and gets shot up in opponents turn. Very effective in scaring the hell out of opponents though.

Enjoyability: They tend to focus the game into some epic battles, so pretty fun.

 

There's also the one for smaller points games

 

Layout Name: The Extra Justicar

Equipment and Additional Others: Brother Captain, SB and NFW

Use in game: Usually joins onto a PAGK squad for an extra close combat potential, or can split off to target weak units.

Effectivity: Good for a cheap HQ, unlocks Dreadnoughts and LR's

Enjoyability: Doesn't really affect the game much, but can be amusing.

 

 

Not very exciting builds, but most wargear on GK's is a waste, they come packing with everything they need IMO.

[silversmith82]

I'm seeing a lot of TH/SS swaps for GKT. IMO/Experience this is a bad idea. The beauty of the NFW is that it is S6 AT INITIATIVE which is where the real power lies. If you want a safety vs. armor, take hammerhand on the BC/GM. Hammerhand counts as an extra ccw so you'll get 4 S8 attacks with a BC/Stern or 5 with a GM ALSO AT INITIATIVE. Way better than 2 at I1 S8 attacks with a normal GKT who is much better off with his NFW. Yeah hammerhand doesn't ignore armor saves but vs. vehicles this is not an issue. Anything else should not be able to stand vs. all those S6 NFW attacks with no armor save, especially if you have the force weapon thrown in on Stern/GM.

 

Another point. Attaching a BC to an allied squad or a PAGK squad. BAD IDEA unless it is to make a 3 pyscannon GKT squad. He has 1 wound and in 5th ed can be singled out in CC. He'll go down in the first round of combat just about every time just by virtue of only having the 1 wound and no retinue to protect him.