Dreadnoughts in Drop pod vs MM Speeder squadron

[Titan87]

So I am trying to decide how I want to get my Melta's to the enemy armor, and I am down to 3 options (I don't like bikes), but I can't decide which one to use so I thought I'd ask for some advice. My options (models available :P ) are

 

2x 2 model Squadron of MM+HF speeders 280

 

Fast, highly mobile, and can usually hit by turn 2 to burn some armor, fragile (but cheap)/

 

2x Multimelta Dreadnoughts with HF+EA 330

 

Durable and draw alot of fire (that is now not coming at my Land Raiders), comes down turn 1, same melta range as the speeder, and DDCW in addition to a Heavy Flamer. Very slow after they pod down. after coming down and if they survive have a

 

 

You can throw in some thoughts on drop podding ironclads, I believe I'm getting some soon. 360

 

So what do you guys think is the best option? The reason they are mutually exclusive is if I go with a DPing Dreadnought I want to pod 2 down at the same time which doesn't leave enough points for speeders.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Titan87]

No thoughts at all?

[Lord_Caldera]

Wow, amazing nobody has answered yet. I've had great success with my MM/HF/EA drop dreads. They are my only two pods so one come in first turn and the second obviously later. The first really messes up people's plans, a MM in the rear or side armor and pretty much guaranteed within 12" is a huge threat, as is the HF over one of their prized squads, especially against my normal opponents of Tau, Eldar and Guard. The threat of the second dread makes the opponent change their strategy to try and dampen its effectiveness when it comes in but it tends to crush a few things. Neither tend to survive the battle but suicide murder is why they exist. I find land speeders to be too fragile, though some people swear by them. I like the close combat potential of a dread and the increased armor (I've had a single armless one kick his way through a building full of Kroot and Broadsides in a couple turns and survive the battle). Just try to find some way to break my MM curse, I personally never hit with the damn thing the first turn. :D Hope this helps, but in the end I think it depends on your preference and playstyle.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I have been described as thoughtless before....

Haha - I was getting ready for and took my Yr 12 Psych exam, which I felt went well. :D

 

Anyway, back to the important stuff. ;)

 

As always it's a horses for courses.

 

Would you be a dear and tell us what army you are, what points you play and the rest of your army list?

 

No sense saying a lance is the best weapon in the world if you are talking about an archer ;)

[Titan87]

Yeah I suppose that might help a bit ;)

 

I play Imperial Fists at 2500 points the list below comes in at 2135

 

Lysander rules

Epistolarian in TDA

 

 

10x Assault Terminators

Land Raider

 

10 man tactical squad

Sgt Power Fist

Flamer

Multi Melta

Rhino

 

10 man tactical squad

Power Fist

Flamer

Multi Melta

Rhino

 

10 man tactical squad

Sgt Power Sword

Melta Gun

Missile Launcher

 

2x Land Speeder Typhoon + HB

 

Land Raider

 

So now that you actually have information maybe you guys can help.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Okay to be controversial I will suggest you check out Jawaballs blog.

He has a Landspeeder versus Attack bike debate. He comes out on the side of AB actually.... :huh:

He uses Rhinos as the shield, because AB are small enough not to be seen, and then drives the AB out at the right time to strike. Interesting as I would not have thought of that.

This would work well with the Assault Ramps on the LR and having the AB pop a troop carrier and then the Terms mop up.

 

I have not yet used Speeders or AB....

 

I really enjoy Dreadnoughts. Even if they attract a bucket load of fire that is okay, as you noted another part of your force gets to operate un-harassed. They are also a big help to any Marine as the can take out mean ICs or Nobz, etc.

 

My brother, as Orks, let me use an Ironclad and I think they are better than a MM + HF one, higher AV and an extra attack ^_^ . However, I think against your more shooty & moving foes, the MM will come into it's own with the extra 12" of reach, they won't be able to sneak away.

 

A Drop Pod tactic I have is to land so that his tank is in between your Dreads & the rest of his army. Then you can either Smoke or fire two MMs that will turn his tank into cover (if all goes to plan....). Remember you can use the DP as cover for your Dread, as long as it is 50%+ obscured and you fire from the MM - unless I have misunderstood Walker shooting. That means you can get cover and shoot at the tank who is not in cover. :yes:

 

If you want to pod on T1 remember to bring three to the "half - rounding up" come as a pair.

 

I think that Tau & IG will have a collection of infantry & tanks in their deployment zone and so shouldn't have any mobility issues.

I am not so sure about the Eldar but any objectives will let you know where they want to end up. However, you can always try to shepherd them between the Droppers/the rest of your guys/the table edge

 

On the subject of of missing with your dice. Remember to leave them lying around with the 6 face up.

Also when I want a 3 +, I tell the dice "Three or more" and you know what? - it works about two-thirds of the time! :yes: ;)

 

Maybe you can let us know how it works out?

[Giga]

MM/HF speeders are the best option here, IMHO.

 

Personally, I like running a full squadron of MM/HF speeders as well as a squadron of 3 mm attack bikes. Makes for LOTS of very fast anti-infantry and anti-armor, but since you don't like bikes, then you should just get two squadrons of 2 mm/hf speeders. Can't go wrong with that.

 

EDIT: Dreads in pods are a more of a hit-and-miss thing. It's only one melta shot, after all, and it needs to hit, then penetrate, then roll 4+ on the vehicle damage chart. The opponent also might've used his smoke launchers, so he also needs to fail his cover save.

 

Another big problem with it is that, once your dread falls down, even if it takes out a tank, it's still left right there in the open, within opponent's melta range. That's basically giving your opponent two free KPs.

[Titan87]

Thanks for the advice guys. I played 4 games since the post 2 with each, one against IG, 2 against Orks, one against Eldar.

 

I had great luck with the dreads against IG Popped 2 Russes with 2 dreads, and then proceeded to tear apart a chimera, heavy weapons team, and a maxed out platoon.

 

Next game was Eldar, and I tried the speeders and did well. They were as fast as the Eldar and managed to take out 2 falcons, before they bright lanced me to death.

 

The 2 games was against orks, and the dreads performed well again, they killed a squad of killa kans, a battle wagon, and between the two of them annhilated a mob of boyz. Next game the speeders were able to take out 2 battle wagons, but failed to do much else.

 

Overall I really liked the dreads due to their flexibility and tar pitting ability they were amazing against guard gun line, and had the ability to tackle the myriad of different threats that the Orks presented effectively. The speeders speed was great, but I had a tough time using them in anything more than a tank hunting role. However I am sure that my dreads would not have killed a single thing against the eldar due to their lack of mobility after the pod.

 

I am leaning toward the dreads for most enemies/all comers, and the speeders for highly mobile enemies

[Marshal Wilhelm]

EDIT: Dreads in pods are a more of a hit-and-miss thing. It's only one melta shot, after all, and it needs to hit, then penetrate, then roll 4+ on the vehicle damage chart. The opponent also might've used his smoke launchers, so he also needs to fail his cover save.

 

Another big problem with it is that, once your dread falls down, even if it takes out a tank, it's still left right there in the open, within opponent's melta range. That's basically giving your opponent two free KPs.

 

I agree with what you have said, it is true, BUT what we all say here needs to be filtered onto the table by our player. :D :unsure: :down:

 

*If the baddie has popped Smoke that changes your tactics.

*2 MM shots (hopefully at half-range) are pretty good but not automatic. Hopefully you will gunning at side armour.

*You can deploy the Dreads so they have 50%+ cover AND get off the MM shot. So what you have said about it being a potential difficulty for the Marine player to get the kill also applies to the baddie.

*If the target has been destroyed it will block TLOS/give cover to the Dreads.

*If the Dreads manage to survive T 1 + 2 that is a good thing as now the rest of the Marines are ready to crash into the enemy line, hopefully reducing the amount of attention both groups are getting.

 

What you have said is a definite possibility, so I am not meaning to discredit your points. :)

 

Titan87 that is excellent! IMO, above any other army, Dreads are made for Orks - AV 12 survives better against bs2 and being able to HF then DCCW will give even Nobz a hard time.

 

I know you gave us a run-down of the units we suggested but how did the army go? - W, L, T?

I have never played against Eldar so I'll leave your experience to trump any theory I might be able to conjure up. ;)

Have you seen Grey Mage's article on "Dead Eldar"? - I think that is what it is called....

[lord gunthar]

In my salamanders i run 2x3 mm/hf speeders in 2000 pt games , i also use 1 mm/sb dread and a 2xhf ironclad i would say that the multimelta dread is better than the landspeeders when i dont use vulcan but 6 tl mms and hfs really hurts all tanks and infantry with 4+ or worse saves

[Titan87]

Thanks a bunch Marshall! You've been a great help, i started playing around six months ago and am almost ready to be promoted out of the scout company :)

 

As for the Win/Loss I did real well.

 

Mostly thanks to the Dreads and Lascannons I got a massacre against the IG (I usually do well against IG for some reason, maybe my obsessive need for AT)

 

I took a draw from the Eldar, the highlight being Lysander finally stepping up and saying :lol: you to the avatar and beating it into the Ground. But I struggled to deal with their speed. (thanks for the article reference I'll have to check it out)

 

I split games with the orks one win and one loss. I won against my friends Battle wagon rush list (headed by thraka) massacred on turn 4 (this was the game with the dreads), but I lost against his footslogging "green tide" list as I just didn't have the long range firepower (and due to poor roles) to kill enough of the mobs to get the kill points i needed.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Well the results are pretty good. :)

 

I am glad to have been a help. You are very welcome. :woot:

[Grey Mage]

Id rather have MM speeders than DP dreadnaughts. You can reposition them, they can be tougher, etc. Unless Im already doing a DP army I wouldnt take them.

 

You can get 2 MM speeders for the price of one Dread with DP, and have spare pts left over. If you upgrade the Dread at all, you can get 3, or 2 with 2xMM.

 

Not to mention Elite Slots tend to be more dear to me than FA slots. By a looooong way.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Id rather have MM speeders than DP dreadnaughts. You can reposition them, they can be tougher, etc. Unless Im already doing a DP army I wouldnt take them.

 

You can get 2 MM speeders for the price of one Dread with DP, and have spare pts left over. If you upgrade the Dread at all, you can get 3, or 2 with 2xMM.

 

Not to mention Elite Slots tend to be more dear to me than FA slots. By a looooong way.

 

 

Oooh controversy! ;)

 

As you know, Grey Mage, I don't have Eldar experience so I can only offer theory on them. I can see against a speedy foe having speed will pay off, so I won't argue that one. :)

 

Do you find Speeders to work well against Orks? I say this because after the initial drop & melta I didn't think an MM Speeder will do that well against Orks. AV 10 is something Lootas can damage where AV 12 is more of a challenge for Orks and for a Speeder to HF Orks means they are in the danger zone (cue Top Gun music) which is fine for a DCCW Dread....

 

Against Guard (which I also have not played) I would think the Dread can "take cover" in cc while the Speeder will be gunned at by Auto Cannons & Multi Lasers? The Dread can MM and assault a tank (giving the Dread two goes at it) which = 2 MM shots from the Speeder duo....?

 

*Dread, MM HF ExtraArmour + Drop Pod = 135 + 35.

*3 Speeders, MM = 180 or 2 is 120.

*2 Speeders, MM HF = 140.

So they are all ball-park-ish, but with the Speeders being better value with the amount of guns they bring. Are they tough enough to survive though?

 

What do you think and can you expand on the scenarios I have created, Grey Mage?

[silversmith82]

Turbo boosting bike command squad with Khan. Mmmmmm