How do you use leaders?

[Niiai]

Hello, I am new to this game after a break of about 10 years.

 

I am having a hard time justefi-ing putting heroes into my army. Instead of a psyker at 100 points it's just better to put in a long fang group with 3 rocket launchers.

 

How do I use my heroes to get my point's worth out of them. And also how do you equip your heroes? Do you suck them all into a super efecient hero who cant die at 200 points or what do you do?

 

I relay like psykers and I would like to feald 2 or 3 of them but the points just don't add up.

 

The only hero that realy si worth it's points is the wolf priest who comes with a free "belt of rus" and power weapon.

 

Any advice will be apreciated.

 

 

-Sincerly

Niiai

[Level]

The question that needs to be asked is: how are you deploying your leaders?

 

Are your guys in transports?

Are your leaders attached to other squads?

 

If your HQ is part of another unit it makes it much harder for the enemy to kill them as they can't then be singled out by enemy shooting. This should make them much more survivable.

 

under which circumstances are your leaders mostly dying, from long range fire or in close combat?

[muzzyman1981]

A Wolf Priest is a fine addition to any army in my opinion, but especially leading Blood Claws as it lets them re-roll against their main target, infantry.

 

A Rune Priest is now a viable HQ choice as well. Especially if you can afford to make him a Master of the Runes to get to use two psychic powers per turn (i.e. a shooting power and if need be able to use his Force Weapon in the same turn as insurance).

 

A Wolf Lord is also a good choice as an all-arounder. Just give him a Belt of Russ and any weapon setup you want.

 

One of the biggest things I like to give my HQs is a WTN. IMO, it is worth the 10pts, especially for a HQ you expect to see CC action (and what Wolf doesn't expect that? =0P)

[Sven Bloodskull]

Well, lets see. Yes, a wolf priest starts with a power weapon and a 4+ save. But, he has a lower weapon skill, ballistic skill, wounds, initiative (which imho is the most important stat of the game) and attacks compared to a wolf lord.

 

So, lets give the wolf lord a Storm Shield and a Frost Blade, which would make him 155 in total. Yes, he is 55 points more expensive than a wolf priest, but than again, he has 1 more ws, 1 more bs, 1 more strength thanks to the frost blade, 1 more wound, 1 more initiative (striking before in 4 guys is godsend) and 1 more attack AND he has a better inv save than the wolf priest. The wolf priest does give fearless and re-roll to hit against some of the things you will come across, but then again, the wolf priest is meant to be a unit booster, unlike the wolf lord, who is a unit basher ;)

 

In any case, back to your original question, characters alone will not earn their points back, but that's oke, thats why we stick them inside other units. Together though, they will have a very good chance at earning their points back. the wolf priest makes sure that the unit he has joined will hit and stand its ground, the wolf lord will make sure to kill a few things befoe they can hit the other guys in the squad (unless its equal or higher initiative).

 

and your psykers will earn their points back by stopping enemy psykers, infiltrators and by blasting the everloving snot out of stuff. its just a matter of perspective.

 

Sven Bloodskull

[Niiai]

I had a rune priest that got stuck in melee pretty fast from a bad drop pod, and did not cast any spells the whole game (he countered some though)

 

Also I had a wolf lord leader with some sky claws, I had loads of points in him but he was singel shottet by a carifex in close combat.

 

Anyway, it seems like just using loads of regular marines, and upgrade to long fangs (for shooting power) or a pack of blood claws or grey hunters with a powerfist or something (instead of the lord) It would give more *mph* for you money, and more survivabilaty.

 

Or is there a secret to using heroes? I started with SW because I liked that you can field 4 heroes, but aparantly -I- can't do that. ;)

[JamesI]

I wouldn't recommend using 4 outside of really large games. How many points do you play normally?

 

Characters are good, but they need protection. If they aren't immune to instant death you need to avoid things like powerfists, librarians/sorcerors, or anything strength 8 or above.

[littlbitz]

4 heroes is too much in all but the largest of games.

 

A heroes role is typically to support your units, though on occasion I am guilty of running them off on their own to achieve some objective or another.

 

The Wolfpriest is an excellent HQ, not because of his own combat prowess, but for what he does for the unit he is with.

 

If you are going to take a WolfLord or a Wolfguard battle leader, you still must be wary of your targets in Close combat, instant death is a concern. I use Saga of the Bear for this very reason.

 

Space wolf HQ choices seem to be an all or nothing affair for me right now, by this I mean, I can't seem to find a middle of the road costing HQ, I either go all out, or I keep him cheap.

 

Try using Saga of the Bear and a Stormshield on your lord. Also, try putting your Rune Priest in a Support Squad in an effort to keep him out of close combat so you can get more powers off.

[muzzyman1981]

Well any opponent worth the name will take out your HQs asap, it's the nature of the game my friend. One of the main things to remember is move your forces to best take advantage of the situation, I know it's difficult at times and many times it won't be clear exactly what you need to do to get in the optimal positions but as you learn the army on the field you should start getting the hang of it.

 

Rune Priests IMO should not be in the front lines unless spec'd that way, if you plan on using powers then sit him in back with a Grey Hunter pack, first to give him the range. I would choose to put him in the pack as it means he can't be targeted seperately, the flip side is one or the other may have to shoot at a target not really suited to his "weapon". Which is why I would take a RP with a anti-"big thingy" power and a more anti-infantry power.

 

Of course this is just me and may not be anywhere near suited to your play style or army.

[MaleOpener]

I had a rune priest that got stuck in melee pretty fast from a bad drop pod, and did not cast any spells the whole game (he countered some though)

 

Also I had a wolf lord leader with some sky claws, I had loads of points in him but he was singel shottet by a carifex in close combat.

 

Anyway, it seems like just using loads of regular marines, and upgrade to long fangs (for shooting power) or a pack of blood claws or grey hunters with a powerfist or something (instead of the lord) It would give more *mph* for you money, and more survivabilaty.

 

Or is there a secret to using heroes? I started with SW because I liked that you can field 4 heroes, but aparantly -I- can't do that. :D

 

 

1. What pack was your rune priest with? I usually give mine (if I can spare the points) a wolftooth necklace and the Saga of the Beastslayer. Not only is he a 'beast' in CC, he can mix-it-up with demons. I always place my rune priest with a GH pack or a WG pack.

* Not being able to get a power off happens. What til you get against a good Eldar player :) *

 

2. In the case of any "type" of blood claw unit, a wolf priest should be placed. Their "preferred enemy" rule with help against models such as a carnie. Your lord didn't sound as it had a invul save. Most players take the storm shield/frost weapon, though I prefer the belt of russ and 2 wolf claws. Stick your lord with a WG pack, and maybe have them ride a transport of some kind. As for the sky claw pack, as most jump infantry, they are used to hunt down 'shooty' squads.

 

3. In a standard game, you will need a HQ and 2 Troop choices, so you WILL need a HQ. There is nothing wrong with them, you just need to know where/what they are best at. Plenty of good ideas, in the above postings, and I might "steal" some myself ;)

 

4. I've squeezed in 4 heroes, at 2000pts, but I don't encourage it. My playstyle is different to most, so I can really squeeze in the models.

[Niiai]

I am still not shure how you would use a leader corectly. Lets take a shooty lightning lord for instance.

 

If I keep him in the squad he must shoot on whavever the squads shoots at, so you cant singel target anything.

 

Put him in a dread armour and have him walk around solo and he is 120 vs a team of long fangs for that cost.

 

He boosts LS, and he is good in mellee, but is not just another squad of grey hunters with apower fist better?

 

Or am I missing the big picture. I realy would like them to be good. I can se that a lord on insiative 5 with a frost weapon can be good, but you would realy have to protect him...

[Toasterfree]

here is my standard load out for my wolf lord, at a total of 225

combi-melta

runic armor

wolf tooth necklace

belt of russ

frost blade

saga of the bear.

he cant be ID, and has a good armor and invul save. sometime he earns his points back, most often he gets close. only once have i had him earn more then his points (his melta killed a land raider!!). i give him the combi weapon because the unit that I stick him with has a meltagun and i want to not only be able to take out transports, but also have an assault weapon that will kill the enemy when I charge them.

 

my rune priest, which i try not to get stuck in, has this load out

master of runes

wolf tooth necklace

chooser of the slain

 

sometimes i go with a plasma pistol, but lately ive just been running with a good ole bolt version of this. i use him as a support platform with living lightning inside of a grey hunter squad designed to hold positions (10 men 2 plasma guns) and it works great.

 

if i take a wolf priest i take it with this:

runic armor

wolf tooth necklace

saga of the beastslayer

plasma pistol

 

this way he re-rolls against infantry, as well as MCs and walkers, this worked out great the last game that i played, and in my more assaulty lists i may run this more often. I hope this helps. it also has to do with how you deploy them like everyone else said

[Mammon]

Then take a pair of wolves with your lord or stick him in a unit of WG, BCs, or even Assault oriented GH.

 

When you refer to a "lightning lord", do you mean a Rune Priest with Living Lightning? Run him behind the squad or on the flank, that way he can join up if he needs to or split off quickly to avoid getting tangled in assault. One thing you can do is put him (with the squad he is attached to) in a rhino, then use the fire point to snap your spells of from. With this tactic he cannot be locked in combat and is protected. Even if the enemy forces you to disembark, just set him up inside the ring of your men so he is not assaulted directly by someone with a powerfist or other nasty. His LL ability has unlimited range! Lightly armored vehicles or foot-slogging small sized squads are what you aim at with LL. If a big enemy unit gets close enough hit them with his other powers or just suck them off the board with JotWW!

 

Bottom line: The Space Wolves fight as a pack! No model will be *super efficient* unless it is working in tandem with the rest of the army! For your heroes you will have to experiment *alot* to discover the pros and cons of each HQ choice in each situation. Plus, you really can't compare efficiency of your HQs to units. They are totally different. Our leaders rise to their position not because of their own prowess (though that is a factor) but because of the pack around them! Without your packmate beside you your just a wolf, by yourself you may have the fangs and the claws and the alcoholic tolerance that puts an Irishman to shame, but its only with your Wolf-brothers beside you that you succeed in putting the enemy in their place: beneath your size 20 Double-wide boot!

[Toasterfree]

each one of the heroes that i take, serve a purpose. and it is usually to augment the abilities of the pack that they are with.

 

in my list with ragnar, he is the only one that ever, EVER, earns his points back on his own. then he usually gets owned to the face. unless i am smart with here i send him, and my op cant counter it.

 

for my lord, he goes in my other assault GH squad, and smashes some faces before the other marines get to smash face. it works out well for me. the priests that i run do the same thing. they HELP the unit that they are with. i only kit out a small number of assualt heroes because that is THEIR job, define the role that you want them to fill, find a unit in your list that will help them fill it (a RP with your long fangs is an awesome idea) and then run havoc in your enemies lines.

 

if it helps you any, i am going to link my Space Wolf Tactica guide. this should help you find out what your units can do, and help you use your heroes better. i plan on this weekend sometime finishing this project with the HQ choices. i still need to play around with some of the special characters but i will see what i can do about getting that done.

[Iacton Qruze]

I run my Rune Priest as a support unit.

 

he gets Master of Runes and a Chooser of the Slain, and runs 160 points.

 

I run him with a 140 point squad of Longfangs with 5 missile launchers, so he sits in the backfield with the unit, and isn't susceptible to being picked off.

 

For his powers, I give him living lightning, as it has unlimited range, and has the chance to pick off infantry or light-medium tanks, just as the missile launchers do.

 

the other power I give him the 5+ cover save one. That way, you can deploy in the best spot for fire lanes or board dominance without worrying so much about not having cover from an unfortunate battlecannon blast.

 

Longfang ability lets you shoot with the entire squad at one thing, or if you need to divide the unit, he can target with whichever group of MLs you think will be best.

[Ullr Direfang]

I am still not shure how you would use a leader corectly. Lets take a shooty lightning lord for instance.

 

If I keep him in the squad he must shoot on whavever the squads shoots at, so you cant singel target anything.

 

Put him in a dread armour and have him walk around solo and he is 120 vs a team of long fangs for that cost.

 

He boosts LS, and he is good in mellee, but is not just another squad of grey hunters with apower fist better?

 

Or am I missing the big picture. I realy would like them to be good. I can se that a lord on insiative 5 with a frost weapon can be good, but you would realy have to protect him...

 

I guess i am a little lost with what you are trying to say here. "shooty lightning lord"? so is it a Wolf Lord armed with a gun? or is is a Rune priest with a lightning attack? i personally don't believe any SW HQ choices should be shooting heavy. basically it is like what every one is saying: what do you want to do with the HQ choice? my wolf lord hunts infantry of any kind. he has a lot of attacks and good saves. i only really run the lord so i can't really comment on the others currently. i have run a wolf guard battle leader, that is used to hunt big bugs and tanks. i gave him a small wolf guard unit to run around with.

 

i plan to try a wolf priest or wolf guard battle leader in that role, while my lord is on a bike or has a jump pack to go hunt the back field.

[Rokafort Stonewolf]

So far in small to medium games the only HQs I have seen useful are the Rune Priest with Living Lightning (one of the best anti-transport units in the game) and Logan if you take enough terminators to warrant him. I guess in a few cases a Wolf Priest could also be useful, but the others haven't impressed me at all yet.

[RedMoon]

i think you are looking at this all wrong. Your thinking WAY!!!!!!! to much into point effectiveness for this and that. space wolves are about our characters. in my 1850 i run 1.5. a wolf lord with, TDA, TH, SS, WTN, SotB, and he runs with 4 wolfguard terminators with WC, and SS in a redeemer. Then i run Arjac with 4 terminators in a drop pod...thats why i say 1.5...arjac isnt a character per say lol. i send my wolf lord and unit at the biggest nastiest unit my opponent has and let him go to work. same with arjac he and his unit pod in and hit what i think is a big threat 1st turn.

 

now yes my lord is something like 220 points but come on he is my lord and represents ME on the table. just with a cooler name lol. i can understand that in Ooohhh say a 750 1000 point game not wanting a big 220 point guy. i say if your wondering why your character dies i say look at what you are spending....nothing your bare bonsing your characters no wonder they die. a hundred point rune priest will die horribly in combat.

 

Now i know you said you love psychers so run the biggest nastiest one around run Njal i have put him in a pod with a terminator bodyguard and he is DISGUSTING even for 270 points he well makes up his points.

 

i guess my main point is STOP worrying about how cost effective this and that is just remember being a space wolf is about having are big nasty characters who go and kill other nasty characters. Saga of the Bear is your friend lol