Sky Claws

[Wulf Vengis]

So Ive found 5 jump packs lying around in my bitz box and am thinking of testing out a unit in a small game. I was wondering however, whether or not anyone is having any luck with them before I go and build the unit. Afterall I hate to build a unit find ineffective and then have a bunch of models lying around that Ill never use.

[antique_nova]

not at all, they are more expensive that your average assualt marine and they have to rush anything that comes their way. sure they get +1 or is it +2 attacks? but they are countered just as easily as normal assault marines. plus they can be baited into fighting battles that they can't win. e.g. against terminator rets etc.

thanks

antique_nova

[DV8]

not at all, they are more expensive that your average assualt marine and they have to rush anything that comes their way. sure they get +1 or is it +2 attacks? but they are countered just as easily as normal assault marines. plus they can be baited into fighting battles that they can't win. e.g. against terminator rets etc.

thanks

antique_nova

 

Lies! :lol:

 

Skyclaws, for their points, are amazing. And they are actually cheaper than Vanilla Assault Marines (by 2 pts), and only marginally more expensive than Blood Claws (3 pts) in exchange for a Jump Pack. Sure you sacrifice the ability to score, but the added mobility means you can get those Skyclaws where you want them much MUCH faster (as you can boost 12", AND still run if need be).

 

Without a character, yes they "can" be baited, but then you shouldn't be running Skyclaws (especially a small pack of 5) on their own anyways. Supporting, or with the support of, your army, Skyclaws will most definitely pull their weight.

 

 

DV8

[Hfran Morkai]

I find that they can be useful, if you choose your targets wisely and ideally have a Wolf Priest as a leash.

 

@antique_nova: A SM assault squad starts at 100 points and then costs 18 per model after the first five, sure they get a sergeant in the initial cost and have better ws/bs but the lower ws isn't much of an issue when you still hit a wolf lord/sm captain on a 4+ still, just with more attacks.

 

Plus they have counter attack meaning they're more likely to fight with three attacks minimum in an assaults first round, throw in a meltagun to pop a transport and assault the contents. (page 67 for assaulting a unit after destroying transport).

 

Assault marines can't have a meltagun making them less useful, however I do feel you need some form of leash and a plasma pistol makes it more likely to take out that transport.

[antique_nova]

silly me, i must have mis-read the points cost. but still i don't think there competive

[Wulf Vengis]

So then in theory a unit of 5 + WP is a viable low level (dnd term) CC speed bump? Then I think Ill start with 5 and see if maybe 10 isnt even better.

[JamesI]

I'd want a bigger squad, but sky claws in theory seem like a good unit. They really need a character with them though.

[Hfran Morkai]

I like to take it at 8 minimum (plus a character) but starting out small is probably the best way to go, because if you don't like them that's less models to re-work/abandon but they should prove fun, remember against shooting armies you want to get something close an personal quickly so you run them up using cover (could even be your rhinos moving at 12 inches) to keep them intact and then throw them into a squad dedicated to blowing your force up such as devastators and the like.

 

The Wolf Priest just doubles the awesome...

[Aeddon]

I've been running small packs of Blood Claws with great success (two packs, less than ten each) and they do great every time. The other day my pack of eight w/ a Wolf Guard & Wolf Priest took out a mob of twenty 'Ard Boys and walked away with a large enough squad to remain usable in the game. Point being that Skyclaw and Swiftclaw add, at minimum, a huge amount of mobility to a great unit making them even more effective. Haven't used Skyclaws myself but I have a hard time seeing how they could not be competitive.

[Duke Corwin]

Ten skyclaws are actually cheaper than 10 bloodclaws with Rhino (or 10 grey hunters with rhino). Also skyclaws can have MotW. Add an IC, like a Wolf Priest, and you get a strong force that can also deep strike. Plus they don't have to worry about their transport getting destroyed.

 

You can either use a small pack to harrass the enemy or to support your other forces or you can use a big pack to fight on it's own. Given their versatility they could easily replace bloodclaws on the battlefield.

 

The question isn't so much are SCs better than BCs but are SCs better than GHs.

[DV8]

Ten skyclaws are actually cheaper than 10 bloodclaws with Rhino (or 10 grey hunters with rhino). Also skyclaws can have MotW. Add an IC, like a Wolf Priest, and you get a strong force that can also deep strike. Plus they don't have to worry about their transport getting destroyed.

 

You can either use a small pack to harrass the enemy or to support your other forces or you can use a big pack to fight on it's own. Given their versatility they could easily replace bloodclaws on the battlefield.

 

The question isn't so much are SCs better than BCs but are SCs better than GHs.

 

You're asking to compare apples and oranges. Skyclaws and Grey Hunters fulfill different roles on the battlefield.

 

Grey Hunters are all-rounders, capable of taking/holding objectives, and are very VERY tactically flexible.

 

Skyclaws are your unit-munchers, and have the movement to get there. For what they add to your army, there's just no comparison. Cheapest and quickest way to get assault units where you want them.

 

 

DV8

[Toasterfree]

to ask if a unit is "worth it" means that you have not yet defined the role that they would fulfill for you. what is their purpose? what would you have the unit do? what would their objective be? how will they accomplish this? if there isnt a better fit in any of the options then the unit, then they are "worth it".

 

just in my humble opinion, the 11th wound rhino is always better then 10 guys flappin out in the wind. i can get there just as fast, with MORE fire power due to the rapid fire nature of the bolters. MOTW is over rated, so what if sky claws can take it, unless your rolling a ton of rending attacks, its not worth it. ive had it pay off only three times now, granted one of those times it was against a vindicator, but other then that, i leave it to my units that i WANT to get into combat, and am thinking about running a list with out them so i can add extra armor to vehicles.

[Wildfire]

I don't see jumppackers of any kind as useful as they were in the past. But with SCs unable to get a WG leader, I don't know that they're worth their points at all, especially compared to other FA choices.

[Hfran Morkai]

just in my humble opinion, the 11th wound rhino is always better then 10 guys flappin out in the wind. i can get there just as fast, with MORE fire power due to the rapid fire nature of the bolters. MOTW is over rated, so what if sky claws can take it, unless your rolling a ton of rending attacks, its not worth it. ive had it pay off only three times now, granted one of those times it was against a vindicator, but other then that, i leave it to my units that i WANT to get into combat, and am thinking about running a list with out them so i can add extra armor to vehicles.

 

This is a valid point, the firepower a unit of Hunters will throw out is not unimpressive and in subsequent turns they can use their bolt pistols and close combat weapons.

 

I say Skyclaws are suited to hunting large squads of say Necron Warriors, these guys are shooters so you'll want to close with them and assault them, taking as many down as possible, silly "We'll be back" roll.

 

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

[Toasterfree]

I don't see jumppackers of any kind as useful as they were in the past. But with SCs unable to get a WG leader, I don't know that they're worth their points at all, especially compared to other FA choices.

sky claws+wolf priest on jump pack=smashed face! and given saga of the beast slayer there is no fear of MCs and walkers with this unit.

[DV8]

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

 

The same squad cannot kill a transport, and in the same turn assault a squad that was carried within. They are 2 entirely separate units.

 

 

DV8

[Wulf Vengis]

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

Its to my understanding that a unit cant assault another unit if the attacking unit destroyed the transport in their shooting phase

 

OT: The unit would definately have a WP on jump pack as I just so happen to have one of those lying around.

[Toasterfree]

if the shooting unit destroyed a transport with guys inside you can charge the passengers that came out of it

[Dark Bjoern]

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

Its to my understanding that a unit cant assault another unit if the attacking unit destroyed the transport in their shooting phase

 

OT: The unit would definately have a WP on jump pack as I just so happen to have one of those lying around.

If you have destroyed the transport in the shooting phase you can still assault the unit that had been within in that turn.

[Hfran Morkai]

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

 

The same squad cannot kill a transport, and in the same turn assault a squad that was carried within. They are 2 entirely separate units.

 

 

DV8

 

We've had this discussion before. Page 67 of your rulebook. Under the Destroyed-Explodes! result. I'll quote the entire thing:

 

Note: Remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport with its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters. However if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shoot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to according to the assault rules.

 

Seems pretty clear to me you can. So please stop pulling me up on reading my book.

[Lord Ragnarok]

However my favourite tactic is throwing them against mounted tactical squads, fire my plasma pistol and a meltagun at a rhio causing the contents to spill and assault with a horde of angry marines with four attacks each, of course he could be smart and try to place his unit out of range but that can be difficult.

 

The same squad cannot kill a transport, and in the same turn assault a squad that was carried within. They are 2 entirely separate units.

 

 

DV8

 

The Rulebook clearly states you may shoot a transport, then assault any models it was transporting in assault with the same unit as long as they are clear from typical assault restrictions. (Page 67, in the "Note" paragraph, that is below "Destroyed- explodes!")

------------------

 

Mikal beat me to it! :P

[DV8]

We've had this discussion before. Page 67 of your rulebook. Under the Destroyed-Explodes! result. I'll quote the entire thing:

 

Note: Remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport witt its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters. However if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shoot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to according to the assault rules.

 

Seems pretty clear to me you can. So please stop pulling me up on reading my book.

 

Fairly certain we've never had this discussion before, else I would remember it. And now I will.

 

 

DV8

[Hfran Morkai]

I didn't go into as much detail but I mentioned the location. :P

 

I take meltaguns because for the points I'm happy to lose one attack for the chance to vaporise a transport and assault its contents.

 

You can't destroy a transport and assault a squad (that was) embarked inside on the same turn. The two are entirely separate units (and you can only assault a unit you shot at).

 

 

DV8

Took a while but I found the page: Page 67 under Destroyed: Explodes!

 

 

"However if a vehicle is destroyed (any result)... the unit that shot it may now assault the disembarked passengers"

 

It's all too easy to forget some of these things happening with the sheer amount of material our forum goes through these days, not that its necessarily a bad thing.

 

I was bored and decided to read the entire rulebook one day, that being an interesting topic to crop up.

[Wulf Vengis]

Wow...fantastic thank you. So...Sky CLaws equals good....and tranport pop equal CC...double the awesome of today already. Sleep now I fear I am too tired to continue typing.

[Toasterfree]

Wow...fantastic thank you. So...Sky CLaws equals good....and tranport pop equal CC...double the awesome of today already. Sleep now I fear I am too tired to continue typing.

sky claws used for a specific role=good. if you use them for just anything=fail