Erik Crowbreath Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i was recently reading the eldar codex and came upon the scorpion phoenix lord. it says that karandras was the second phoenix lord of scorpions, after, Arhra, the father of scorpions, who was apperently corrupted by chaos (presumably slaanesh, as eldar seem to be), and became the fallen scorpion. i was wondering if there was anything else on this character, and whether it would be feasible to use him as a deamon prince with a sutaible conversion. i know eldar arent space marines, but i gaher that the character may be now a daemon, or Prince, or something chaosy, so i figured it was worth a try. thanks in advance erik.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i was recently reading the eldar codex and came upon the scorpion phoenix lord. it says that Karandras was the second phoenix lord of scorpions, after, Arhra, the father of scorpions, who was apparently corrupted by chaos (presumably slaanesh, as eldar seem to be), and became the fallen scorpion. i was wondering if there was anything else on this character, and whether it would be feasible to use him as a deamon prince with a sutaible conversion. i know eldar arent space marines, but i gaher that the character may be now a daemon, or Prince, or something chaosy, so i figured it was worth a try.thanks in advance erik.. Arhra went on to become the founder of the DE Incubi after his fall. He was never even a daemon that I know of. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Thane Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i was recently reading the eldar codex and came upon the scorpion phoenix lord. it says that Karandras was the second phoenix lord of scorpions, after, Arhra, the father of scorpions, who was apparently corrupted by chaos (presumably slaanesh, as eldar seem to be), and became the fallen scorpion. i was wondering if there was anything else on this character, and whether it would be feasible to use him as a deamon prince with a sutaible conversion. i know eldar arent space marines, but i gaher that the character may be now a daemon, or Prince, or something chaosy, so i figured it was worth a try.thanks in advance erik.. Arhra went on to become the founder of the DE Incubi after his fall. He was never even a daemon that I know of. Was this 100 percent confirmed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasfrozen Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i was recently reading the eldar codex and came upon the scorpion phoenix lord. it says that Karandras was the second phoenix lord of scorpions, after, Arhra, the father of scorpions, who was apparently corrupted by chaos (presumably slaanesh, as eldar seem to be), and became the fallen scorpion. i was wondering if there was anything else on this character, and whether it would be feasible to use him as a deamon prince with a sutaible conversion. i know eldar arent space marines, but i gaher that the character may be now a daemon, or Prince, or something chaosy, so i figured it was worth a try.thanks in advance erik.. Arhra went on to become the founder of the DE Incubi after his fall. He was never even a daemon that I know of. Was this 100 percent confirmed? Is it confirmed that he knows it ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 At the back of C:DE you'll find a story that points toward Arhra becoming the father of the Incubi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Makes sense, there are quite a few similarities between the Striking Scorpions and Incubi....... I still hate Incubi though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 At the back of C:DE you'll find a story that points toward Arhra becoming the father of the Incubi. ;) That would be where my info came from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piousservant Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I like the idea. It's different and within the realms of being possible. I'd say why not? He could be a Daemon Prince. Eldar can and do fall to Chaos after all. The background hints towards Arhra being the founder of the Incubi... But that isn't definate (and whose to say both aren't true - maybe the Dark Kin are in for a Tzeentchian suprise from the Incubi in the future... Unlikely but that isn't the point). However, your best bet would be to leave it open to doubt. Your Daemon Prince might be Arhra... Or maybe he's just a powerful Autarch or a Striking Scorpion Exarch who fell to Chaos and who has been ascended to Daemonhood. That probably works best - a Daemon Prince of Eldar origin - with ties to the Striking Scorpion Aspect... maybe it's Arhra... Maybe it isn't... Just the sort of thing to upset any Eldar you might face... The only thing I would say, is don't give it the Mark of Slaanesh because that wouldn't make sense. Any of the other Gods or Undivided would be fine. Apart from that I think it's a good idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2175984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidren2401 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I have trouble imagining an emaciated Eldar becoming something as bulky and survivable as a daemon prince (not even Eldrad has Eternal Warrior). If it was a chaos lord with a daemon weapon of slaneesh I'd say go for it, but not a daemon prince Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2176470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
iwasfrozen Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I have trouble imagining an emaciated Eldar becoming something as bulky and survivable as a daemon prince (not even Eldrad has Eternal Warrior). If it was a chaos lord with a daemon weapon of slaneesh I'd say go for it, but not a daemon prince What do you mean, All pheonix lords have Eternal Warrior. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2176512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I like the idea. It's different and within the realms of being possible. I'd say why not? He could be a Daemon Prince. Eldar can and do fall to Chaos after all. The background hints towards Arhra being the founder of the Incubi... But that isn't definite (and whose to say both aren't true - maybe the Dark Kin are in for a Tzeentchian suprise from the Incubi in the future... Unlikely but that isn't the point). However, your best bet would be to leave it open to doubt. Your Daemon Prince might be Arhra... Or maybe he's just a powerful Autarch or a Striking Scorpion Exarch who fell to Chaos and who has been ascended to Daemonhood. That probably works best - a Daemon Prince of Eldar origin - with ties to the Striking Scorpion Aspect... maybe it's Arhra... Maybe it isn't... Just the sort of thing to upset any Eldar you might face... The only thing I would say, is don't give it the Mark of Slaanesh because that wouldn't make sense. Any of the other Gods or Undivided would be fine. Apart from that I think it's a good idea. Actually, I would GIVE him the MoS. Slaanesh is who the DE fear the most, thus, it would be highly appropriate that Slannesh made him a daemon prince, ala Fulgrim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2176894 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piousservant Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 I have trouble imagining an emaciated Eldar becoming something as bulky and survivable as a daemon prince (not even Eldrad has Eternal Warrior). If it was a chaos lord with a daemon weapon of slaneesh I'd say go for it, but not a daemon prince Surely there isn't that much difference between an Eldar or a human (or even an Astartes really) becoming a Daemon Prince... One thing I liked about the 3.5 codex was that a DP didn't *have* to be an MC. A Deamon Prince is a creature of chaos... It doesn't have to be a huge, stompy, armour wearing death engine... It could look like anything - though the big stompy look tends to be the favourite look of most Princes. Actually, I would GIVE him the MoS. Slaanesh is who the DE fear the most, thus, it would be highly appropriate that Slannesh made him a daemon prince, ala Fulgrim. I'm not sure. I kinda like the idea of a Slaaneshi Eldar Daemon Prince... But rather than grant them Daemonhood, wouldn't She Who Thirsts just have gobbled them up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2177071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 While it seems reasonable to presume that an Eldar could become a Daemon Prince, it doesn't seem all that reasonable for an Eldar DP to be leading a Chaos Space Marines army. In a Daemon army, it would be pretty cool, but less so in a CSM army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2177469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Actually, I would GIVE him the MoS. Slaanesh is who the DE fear the most, thus, it would be highly appropriate that Slannesh made him a daemon prince, ala Fulgrim. I'm not sure. I kinda like the idea of a Slaaneshi Eldar Daemon Prince... But rather than grant them Daemonhood, wouldn't She Who Thirsts just have gobbled them up? Not necessarily. More long term mental pain could be caused to using the former Eldar/Dark Eldar as a Daemon Prince, which She would find quite comforting. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2177553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
satanaka Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 While it seems reasonable to presume that an Eldar could become a Daemon Prince, it doesn't seem all that reasonable for an Eldar DP to be leading a Chaos Space Marines army. In a Daemon army, it would be pretty cool, but less so in a CSM army. QFT. It would not work properly fluff wise, if you put them in a CSM army. As I recall, isn't N'Kari a former High Elf? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2177559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Arhra had been mentioned in the 2nd Edition Codex Eldar, where IIRC he was described as having turned to the great enemy, i.e. Slaanesh. However, with the advent of 3rd Edition GW dropped the concept of "Chaos Eldar" that was hinted at in a few 2nd Edition sources and instead created the Dark Eldar, who are not in league with Chaos as far as I remember. Personally I would do Arhra as a Chaos Lord, not a daemon prince. Daemon Princes, powerful beings as they may be described as, are monstrous beasts, and are lacking the villainous charisma the distinct Chaos Special Characters have. Khârn, Abaddon and Typhus are still humanoid, after all, and I think it would be the same for one of the original Phoenix Lords that turned to Chaos. I am not sure he would fit into a larger Chaos army, but for a small 500ish patrol force a Slaanesh Lord plus a few marked Slaanesh CSMs, representing Arhra and his retinue of corrupted Striking Scorpions might be a neat little project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2177609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Crowbreath Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 so.. its posiible, not very likely, and GW probly won't like it, and its better to use as a lord then a DP. i'm not sure that it matters fluffwise whether its a daemon army or marine army though, because daemons are pretty universal, and eldar have one anyway. besides, its probly mucking with the fluff enough for nobody to notice whether it should be in a daemon army or not. conversion wise, i think Scorpion heads could fit quite well onto CSM bodies, much more than on Daemons, and i was thinking of using the tomb kings scorpion, karandras and a chaos lord for the basis or mr. Arhra himself. finally, who is N'Kari?, for i fear i am missing out on even more essential knowledge.. thanks for all the replies erik Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2178604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castlerook Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 N'kari is a Slaaneshi daemon prince, and a particularly old one at that. It and Doombreed (a Khornate Daemon Prince) fought the Emperor on Horus' ship at the end of the Horus Heresy. If I'm not mistaken N'kari is also one of the few characters from 40K that also appeared in Fantasy after Games Workshop decided that the 2 systems were seperate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2178668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 conversion wise, i think Scorpion heads could fit quite well onto CSM bodies, much more than on Daemons, and i was thinking of using the tomb kings scorpion, karandras and a chaos lord for the basis or mr. Arhra himself. I would not use CSM models for the conversion. Arhra would probably have a retinue of fallen Striking Scorpions, and not use Traitor Legion members or imperial power armour. Striking Scorpions have a 3+ save and increased strength, so they are close enough to Marine stats that you could use CSM rules for your fallen Eldar Scorpions. I would probably try to "chaos up" some Striking Scorpion models, perhaps throw in a few bits from the Dark Eldar Inccubi, or just make them more spiky and daemonic looking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2178982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 conversion wise, i think Scorpion heads could fit quite well onto CSM bodies, much more than on Daemons, and i was thinking of using the tomb kings scorpion, karandras and a chaos lord for the basis or mr. Arhra himself. I would not use CSM models for the conversion. Arhra would probably have a retinue of fallen Striking Scorpions, and not use Traitor Legion members or imperial power armour. Striking Scorpions have a 3+ save and increased strength, so they are close enough to Marine stats that you could use CSM rules for your fallen Eldar Scorpions. I would probably try to "chaos up" some Striking Scorpion models, perhaps throw in a few bits from the Dark Eldar Inccubi, or just make them more spiky and daemonic looking. Wouldnt zerkers' be a better counts as for fallen striking scorpions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2185505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaolin_Monkey Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I agree that it is a great idea, but your better off not saying its Arhra specifically, just leave it as more of an unknown. although having said that the fluff for the phoenix lords talks about how they are not the one eldar, every time one of them dies another takes over the mantle and powers, so there is no reason why one of the Arhra's went on to found the Incubi and another turned to chaos, or even possibly one of the Karandras turned... also I agree about it not really fitting with a CSM army unless you went a bit further and made more conversions to fit the turned eldar theme in, eg. the previously suggested retinue or a squad of suitably convered 'counts as' possessed striking scorpions all in all though great idea, love to see what the model would look like in DP styled eldar armour... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2185580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Wouldnt zerkers' be a better counts as for fallen striking scorpions? Dunno, even when fallen, and even talking Scorpions, I would rather put them more in the "finesse" field than in the "ravaging slaughterer" field, so I would rather see them have higher Initiative (as would be natural for elite Eldar) than having more attacks (which Scorpions get from wargear), furious charge and the higher WS. Also, they would most likely be Slaanesh followers anyway, so taking Icons of Slaanesh or even Noise Marines would make sense. But you could just as well justify Khorne marks with their +1 attack as death Scorpios from hell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184007-arhra-the-fallen-scorpion/#findComment-2185587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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