Need help with heavy choices

[Irongore Darkwolf]

I was looking at the forms on B&CS about the upright converions to make oblitorators look awsome. Before I wouldn't get them because of the cost to buy 3 of them.

 

What I want to know, are they that kick-butt in game because I see lots if lists with oblitorators.

On the otherhand I see preditors, vindicators, Landraiders.

 

Then there is allways the good ol' reliable havocs.

 

What do you run? how well dose it work? What's the point cost too..

[Corpse.]

I run everything to take advantage of one thing or another. Be it confusing target priority, tank heavy, marine heavy or somewhere inbetween.

 

Obliterators have 3 modes of use. One is versitility, deep strike, the array of weapons and doubling as being as rough as a dreadnought in melee combat between two or three of them. Second mode is their move+shoot capability and ease of hiding them behind a spare rhino(that might have a havoc launcher) or some other big vehicle or terrain. Slapping things down at range. Third mode is with lash of submission, mostly for their plasma cannons and/or TL Flamers. Line them up, and knock them down. It seriously does feel like bowling.

 

Demolishers and Predators have good uses. Just two problems, they get stunned or shaken they are gunless at that point. Demolisher loses one gun, its dead to you or just another part of your rhino wall. Predator sits at range and can only fire one weapon when it moves 6". Dirge caster is rarely used and chaos is hardly ever on the defensive in a way that would make it useful. (Models that come in after you are LD10 or fearless normally) So they are taken as two things. Quick damage for cheap cost, and to take hits for the rest of the army because they look scary and people fail to recognize the versatility of your other forces when they think they're blowing away "critical parts" of your army.

 

Aside from pinning and running, havocs do not suffer from the same drawbacks as the above units. Ablative bodies to take hits, can even run LD10 and 5+ invulnerable save if you feel pushy. They even can rival a hand to hand unit that comes in to tie them in combat which is a weakness of devvies.

 

Defiler is a mutt and always will be one. Dreadnought/ranged firepower (that can come in reserves and stay outside 48" range)/melee monster/backup weapons if you REALLY want to waste the points in versatility. They do well with lash armies in both the melee and firepower aspect, even if you push the enemy away to keep the range firepower active. It also does not suffer from stuns or shakens, so it can be reliable if you hide it behind a rhino to get a cover save.

 

Land Raider is a no comment sort of deal as it severely depends on your list on what its role should be. Its going to take hits or get ignored. Either way you can capitalize on that if you plan accordingly. Best used to get your short range forces (which is most of the choices in your army) up where they need to be.

[Irongore Darkwolf]

Thanks, i guess it comes down to test playing how it works in my army. i do like the lash idea with the obliterators. it just seems not fair :mellow:

[Corpse.]

War is never fair. We're using a slightly dated codex that was made in 4th without true playtesting and player feedback of 5th edition.

 

Facing all the new power lists, lacking proper costs of our tanks, rules updates and gimped terminator armor rules on top of rotten unit choices and the previous heavily tested 3.5 codex's units being butchered and split into two codexes hindering both sides.

 

Go with what feels best.

[chillin]

i do like the lash idea with the obliterators. it just seems not fair :mellow:

 

It's not. Moving the other guys units around is retarded and I'm sure very annoying to the other player. That should have never been put in this dex. And is really nothing to run in a friendly game (even a competitive/friendly game) IMO. No way to make friends.

Back to your OT.

Oblits are definately the most versitile. I wouldn't buy 3 though, either 2 or 4. Only reciently did I start running 2X2 oblits, 1X2 wks fine.

In some oblits vs preds thread on here, some people made some very good arguements for preds being just as good (even harder to kill in some ways), just not as flexable as oblits.

Havocs are the hardest to kill and keep your #'s up, but really only space for them in larger games IMO.

LR really doesn't fill a hvy support role IMO. It's to deliver brzrkrs "and, oh yeah, it has a couple of LC's on it".

Defilers can be good b/c the have battle cannon AND can fleet into CC. but they made the model so ridiculously huge, you can rarely get a cover save, usually (but not always) giving it a short life. Deffinely an if you take 1...take 2 choice.

Vindis, worst HS choice chaos has IMO, and really doesn't bare consideration.

.

As to what I take: I mix it up, so I don't get bored. In reg sized games (let's say 1500 - 1700), I usually take only 2 HS choices. Sometimes 2X2 oblits, less often 1X2 oblits and a combi-pred. In large games I break out my havocs once in a while, AC and/or HB's are the only hvy weops I really like on havocs. If I take a LR, I will only take 1 pred or 1X2 oblits as another HS choice b/c LR eat up pts so fast.

[minigun762]

Thanks, i guess it comes down to test playing how it works in my army. i do like the lash idea with the obliterators. it just seems not fair :mellow:

 

That is the basis for the Chaos power list for the most part. You can do the same thing with Vindicators or Defilers since they too drop pie plates.

 

I've found the Defiler to be my "go to" selection. The flexibility of having a mobile Battlecannon and alot of attacks is quite helpful.

Typically its a pair of Defilers matched up with something else, Combi-Predator and Vindicators being common choices.

[Requiemnex]

I would have to agree with chillin on most of this.

 

Oblits = Key model.. I own two and frankly am considering buying more. 75 points of all comer greatness.. Deep striking or placing on the board first turn. Anywhere on the table they can do SOMETHING useful. anywhere from 12" twin linked to strength 9 48" these guys can really pack a punch. Not even bringing up the fact that they have template weapon options as well.

 

Havocs = I run these like a champ.. I currently own 3 Missile Launchers, 3 Heavy Bolters, and 3 Autocannons. I plan on picking up 4 Lascannons as I want to try that out as well despite the 15 point increase from the missile launchers.. I love these guys.. for 200 pts you can get 3 missile launchers and a autocannon with 8 models. So they can soak wounds like a champ and with Str8 Ap3 48" you can really rock the house if you place them correctly first turn.. Then you throw in the fact that you can shoot frag as well.. Templates can be super helpful. The double shot from the autocannon not only can pierce light tanks but it helps when trying to widdle out units. I have really great luck with this unit.

 

Landraider = Never actually fielded one to be honest. I have been debating picking one up recently to try it out. I just feel like for the points you can come up with a unit that does more than soak damage. Two lascannons... Bleh... For the points i can get more.. The one great thing is the transport and 14 all around armor.. I am just not sure how useful it really is for the points.

 

Defiler = This is my one spot I disagree with Chillin. I think this mofo is a BEAST. The battlecannon can do some serious ranged damage instantly killing marines under a pie plate. Great for destroying units fresh out of a rhino. In addition a unit without a powerfist or thunderhammer cant touch it in h2h. The model is so big it makes it very hard to get rear or even side armor on the damn thing.

 

Vindi - Pointless..... We really have so much better options than a low armor tank with a template. Easily defused.

 

Pred - Can be versatile easily make its points back as it is cheap. Never used one myself but I have seen great things come out of them.

[Sception]

Chaos Heavy Support choices range from 'OK' to 'Awesome'. None of them are terrible. Most CSM players find they max out on Heavy Support choices before they even consider fielding any fast attack (the sad sack category of our army).

 

Oblits are generally favored for their versatility.

 

Havoks are potentially the most durable, but also eat up a lot of points for a non-scoring unit. They can also be configured for short ranged special shooting, though such is generally left to dual special CSM squads, again due to the scoring issue.

 

Vindi's suffer from relatively low armor, but a single shot from the demolisher cannon can be game changing, and as such they are a 'must kill' unit for your opponent, which can be useful in and of itself.

 

Preds are tough, and can be the most effective option against enemies that favor multiple skimmers, such as mech eldar, mech tau, or air-cav guard.

 

Defilers have decent long range shooting and decent melee power. You can favor one or the other, or vary based on your opponent. Their size is a negative factor, but there's a lot to love, here.

 

Land Raiders are overpriced as fire support. Instead, use them to transport something deadly into melee (usually zerkers, sometimes terminators, possessed with a hero if you absolutely must field possessed for some reason), and soak some fire while doing so. For that, they aren't all bad.