How many of you...

[Narthecium]

How many of you Space Wolf players have seen all your marine buddies start showing up with their marines saying "Well I know they're painted as [insert Chapter here] but really the space wolf codex is better for my fluff/gameplay/army/more fun to play/etc."

 

Seems like roughly 3.4 of the people I know who actually still play marines (our group seems to have a lot of daemon and IG players these days) have gone over to the Space Wolf codex with their whatever-chapter marines.

 

 

I have NO problem with that whatsoever, I'm one of the most lenient "counts as" guys you'll meet (I let a tyranid player proxy three raveners with ORK BIKES...) but it's just sad to me to see the opinion on C:SW be so much higher than C:SM. No offense to you space wolf players of course, you guys have needed a new dex for a while.

[WG Vrox]

I have NO problem with that whatsoever, I'm one of the most lenient "counts as" guys you'll meet (I let a tyranid player proxy three raveners with ORK BIKES...) but it's just sad to me to see the opinion on C:SW be so much higher than C:SM. No offense to you space wolf players of course, you guys have needed a new dex for a while.

 

Have no worries, these people are usually band wagoners and most will switch back as soon as they see that C: SW is not the be all end all marine chapter to play. For those that don't well, for some the wolf comes out takes hold and never lets go.

 

And hey a few C:SW 40k players here and there is not a bad thing, gives you some diversity in your games when your headed down to your LGS for a random encounter.

 

Vrox

[Long Fang]

A few test games with counts as models is fine, we do it all the time when we're thinking of getting a new army..... my wolf guard terminators have been used as riders of Rohan on more than one occasion..

 

But after a couple of games buy some damn models! Or at least re-paint yer codex ones

 

Long Fang

[Baru]

Note a single one. We all generally frown upon people who take known chapters and use the Wolf codex. Made up your own? Sure. But things like black templars and chaos using the wolf codex......It's kinda like using the SM codex with DA. You want to do it? sure, but you just lost kudo's.

[Narthecium]

Note a single one. We all generally frown upon people who take known chapters and use the Wolf codex. Made up your own? Sure. But things like black templars and chaos using the wolf codex......It's kinda like using the SM codex with DA. You want to do it? sure, but you just lost kudo's.

 

 

 

Using chaos as wolves is not nearly the same as using black templars as wolves. And using the SM codex for DA is not a bad thing whatsoever -- you can just say "Oh these are my green marines." I find the viewpoint that someone disliking their issued codex (dark angels for instance) and using a codex they prefer (space marines) to be unacceptable as totally strange. Codex: Space Marines technically covers ALL space marines, hence why it's called Codex: Space Marines, not Codex: All Space Marines Except Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves.

[le_tiss]

Note a single one. We all generally frown upon people who take known chapters and use the Wolf codex. Made up your own? Sure. But things like black templars and chaos using the wolf codex......It's kinda like using the SM codex with DA. You want to do it? sure, but you just lost kudo's.

 

 

 

Using chaos as wolves is not nearly the same as using black templars as wolves. And using the SM codex for DA is not a bad thing whatsoever -- you can just say "Oh these are my green marines." I find the viewpoint that someone disliking their issued codex (dark angels for instance) and using a codex they prefer (space marines) to be unacceptable as totally strange. Codex: Space Marines technically covers ALL space marines, hence why it's called Codex: Space Marines, not Codex: All Space Marines Except Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves.

 

 

:o :( :D :down: :no:

 

 

 

DA all the way baby :wub:

[muzzyman1981]

It's just the Flavor of the Month and in a couple more months (or when the next 40k Codex comes out) we will see who really are Wolves and who are just playing with the newest toys.

[Baru]

Note a single one. We all generally frown upon people who take known chapters and use the Wolf codex. Made up your own? Sure. But things like black templars and chaos using the wolf codex......It's kinda like using the SM codex with DA. You want to do it? sure, but you just lost kudo's.

 

 

 

Using chaos as wolves is not nearly the same as using black templars as wolves. And using the SM codex for DA is not a bad thing whatsoever -- you can just say "Oh these are my green marines." I find the viewpoint that someone disliking their issued codex (dark angels for instance) and using a codex they prefer (space marines) to be unacceptable as totally strange. Codex: Space Marines technically covers ALL space marines, hence why it's called Codex: Space Marines, not Codex: All Space Marines Except Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves.

 

Well I didn't say it was unacceptable. But using a different codex then the one they already have is something me and my gaming group will never do (As a joke we call dark angels using the space marine codex 'fallen angels') and is something of an oddity as a whole I think in the dutch gaming enviroment as far as I've noticed. Sure I'm not everywhere all the time, but if the tournaments are any sort of indicator, then I've encountered it only once in a FGS (not so local) doubles tournament. He was using the space marine codex with his dark angels. The irony of it though was that I was playing dark angels with the DA codex and he was totally suprised of all the things you could do with it. Anyways it's all personal experience and if I come across somebody who does use a different codex then the original (or want to try something new) then I would have totally no objections in playing. Heck you can call them 'the angels of darkness' or 'the star wolves' for all I care, so long I have a good game :D .

[Skald_Thorgrimm]

I don't know any player who uses the "wrong" codex as opposed to the the wrong models. I will admit to using a borrowed Blood Angels assault squad to represent Skyclaws on Saturday. Crucially it was Blood Angels models standing in for Space Wolves ones in a Space Wolf army. I wouldn't dream of "this army is chosen from the Space Wolf codex but actually represents the Blood Angels", nor do I know anyone who would.

[fishnspoon]

i hate ppl who do this as i only did this when c: eye of terror was unusable so was able 2 use as eather c: csm or c:sm(which i think is ok)

[Byrne]

I? Well I do despice it, hate it really.

 

40k have a big problem with this attitude... it use to be that you knew what you faced. Now, darn a Smurf can be a greater deamon of whatever. I just don´t like it. it´s a sloppy attitude, paint what you play, play what you are saying you play. otherwise, if you like SW? paint your darn SW as SW.

 

To make it clare, I have no problems withe everyone playing SW,just if they do it as something else...

 

If this is the road, why bother with codex, or armies, or colors??

 

 

To you who do it... SHAME ON YOU!!!! be proud of your choise, or change army.

 

 

This is what you will end up with...

 

"oh, well my empire army is actually a deamon army.... the great cannons are flamers and my griffon is my herald. (Bah!)

 

 

Hate it... I really do.

[muzzyman1981]

Byrne : If you are going to berate people on using models not from the codex they are playing maybe you want to get your spelling up to par....kinda hard to feel bad from someone who tells you to use your "choise" of army

 

I personally don't have too much of a problem with people playing with models they don't currently own or have painted in line with the codex they are using, all I was saying is that when the next 'dex comes out we will see who are really Space Wolf players or who goes on to play Ork Nobz as Lictors.

 

This is a game, remember this please and let people have fun. If you don't want to play games against these people, then don't. Find someone who has every model, painted and properly built up. Me, I'm gonna play 40k and my Wolves as long as I have fun doing it....even if sometimes I have to play against purple monkeys that are really Eldar.

[stinkenheim]

i have no problem with it personally. i proxy alot of the time (check my blog to see how long i've been working on my space wolves and still only have 2 models painted, lol) partly because i want to try things out, sometimes because i have no money to buy a model and other times its because i am using a different army as a one off game. i played as eldar the other day, used guardsmen as guardians, sergeants as the storm guardians (2 cc weapons) 3 dreads as war walkers and even a lego star wars toy as a wave serpent. i told my opponent (a friend who i game with all the time) what was what and got on with it. i dont always like playing as one of the three armies i have collected and sometimes fancy a change. im not going to, nor indeed am i able to, buy an entire army just for an odd game.

the same goes for those who use a different codex for their army, fine, just so long as i know what is what. obviously id be surprised if a smurf player was using SW rules but i wouldnt cry about it and i wouldnt refuse to play. its their money and their toys they can do waht they like.

[Byrne]

Byrne : If you are going to berate people on using models not from the codex they are playing maybe you want to get your spelling up to par....kinda hard to feel bad from someone who tells you to use your "choise" of army

 

 

@muzzyman1981 I don´t care about your self right to proclaim yourself as a guru of expression. Not everyone are native to the english language, we do the best we can. If you feel so great, we can take it in swedish in stead. But I guess your swedish is not up to par....? People like you just get under the skin, and get annoying.

 

I was just expressing my point of view on the matter, but I guess your veiw is more important because you are from Louisiana?

 

To all others sorry about that detour.

 

If you are fine with this "count as" in your playing groups, well thats ok. But for me, who like to play in tournements, I do not like to be surprised by some one who decide to play necrons as SW or Orcs...

[Narthecium]

I? Well I do despice it, hate it really.

 

40k have a big problem with this attitude... it use to be that you knew what you faced. Now, darn a Smurf can be a greater deamon of whatever. I just don´t like it. it´s a sloppy attitude, paint what you play, play what you are saying you play. otherwise, if you like SW? paint your darn SW as SW.

 

To make it clare, I have no problems withe everyone playing SW,just if they do it as something else...

 

If this is the road, why bother with codex, or armies, or colors??

 

 

To you who do it... SHAME ON YOU!!!! be proud of your choise, or change army.

 

 

This is what you will end up with...

 

"oh, well my empire army is actually a deamon army.... the great cannons are flamers and my griffon is my herald. (Bah!)

 

 

Hate it... I really do.

 

 

 

 

that's not even close to the same thing as saying "these guys painted as ultramarines are space wolves." Space marines at least LOOK like other space marines, they have roughly the same stats. Would you be angry at a Space Wolves player using the Codex: Space Marines?

 

I'm not talking proxying an entire army with figures that look nothing like it, I'm talking about using figures that happen to be a different color. That's like telling me that you HATE people who play Space Wolves but decide to do their own original color scheme rather than going with the cookie-cutter grey and yellow.

 

I think that's a really, really silly thing to say "be proud of your [choice] or change army" because what if someone has been running Dark Angels since they were first released, and finally decided "Well I still love this army that I've sunk hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into, but I'd rather use the newest codex rather than this now archaic one that I've been using for all these years"? Or "Well all I have is this half-hearted PDF codex and I'd rather use this glorious Space Wolves/Space Marine codex to represent my blood angels.

 

Your answer is that they go buy a whole new army, repaint a whole new army, and forsake their lovingly crafted Dark Angel army just because they want to use the Space Marine codex or something? That just smacks of not understanding that some people live in a world where they have time and monetary constraints.

[muzzyman1981]

Tournaments are completely different apple. When you play in a tourney you should be showing the proper weaponry and such on your models which is difficult to do with a Necron player pretending to be a Black Templars.

[Byrne]

that's not even close to the same thing as saying "these guys painted as ultramarines are space wolves." Space marines at least LOOK like other space marines, they have roughly the same stats. Would you be angry at a Space Wolves player using the Codex: Space Marines?

 

I'm not talking proxying an entire army with figures that look nothing like it, I'm talking about using figures that happen to be a different color. That's like telling me that you HATE people who play Space Wolves but decide to do their own original color scheme rather than going with the cookie-cutter grey and yellow.

 

I think that's a really, really silly thing to say "be proud of your [choice] or change army" because what if someone has been running Dark Angels since they were first released, and finally decided "Well I still love this army that I've sunk hundreds of dollars and thousands of hours into, but I'd rather use the newest codex rather than this now archaic one that I've been using for all these years"? Or "Well all I have is this half-hearted PDF codex and I'd rather use this glorious Space Wolves/Space Marine codex to represent my blood angels.

 

Your answer is that they go buy a whole new army, repaint a whole new army, and forsake their lovingly crafted Dark Angel army just because they want to use the Space Marine codex or something? That just smacks of not understanding that some people live in a world where they have time and monetary constraints.

 

 

No, I do not hate people. I do in fact love people. What I do not like is the flavor of the month people who want to use what they think is "best" army and at the same time ad fuel to the fire... while there is a lot of people who want to play their army because of long wait or fluff or historic story.

As I said, I don´t have problem with people playing SW as SW.

In my book, there is no fun using the rules just to be “on top” (if it even is being on top? I have lost all my games since I started out with the new codex)

 

Why do you even get into a chapter/army if you just gonna be FLOM? And I have never encountered a player who don´t have one or at least two side armies in the works….

No I do really rather see people play their armies for what they are, or change…

For me it´s sad to see people who don´t give a D*** about what they put together or play….

[Byrne]

Tournaments are completely different apple. When you play in a tourney you should be showing the proper weaponry and such on your models which is difficult to do with a Necron player pretending to be a Black Templars.

 

 

Then I believe we have a common ground. From that it´s just shades between black and white. 

[Narthecium]

For me it´s sad to see people who don´t give a D*** about what they put together or play….

 

 

I tend to agree, but I don't think that not using your Chapter named codex means you don't care about what you put together or play. Lots of people who have these lovingly crafted armies are just a little ticked that it seems most of the new codices coming out smack the tar out of their old codex.

 

As for losing all of your games..did you win, when you were using Codex: Space Marines? Because having looked over both books, I find Space Wolves to be an undercosted Space Marines army with a few more toys and options. Granted you miss one or two things like the Thunderfire and Ironclad, but overall there are more options in the SW codex and your basic troops cost a little bit less.

[Byrne]

For me it´s sad to see people who don´t give a D*** about what they put together or play….

 

 

I tend to agree, but I don't think that not using your Chapter named codex means you don't care about what you put together or play. Lots of people who have these lovingly crafted armies are just a little ticked that it seems most of the new codices coming out smack the tar out of their old codex.

 

As for losing all of your games..did you win, when you were using Codex: Space Marines? Because having looked over both books, I find Space Wolves to be an undercosted Space Marines army with a few more toys and options. Granted you miss one or two things like the Thunderfire and Ironclad, but overall there are more options in the SW codex and your basic troops cost a little bit less.

 

 

Well, I have to say. With the old SW codex, I had it pretty much down and won most of my games. In the end I felt there were too many loose ends with the codex faq´s and new rules so I decided to build me an Imperial fist army.

 

The latest Space marine codex is very good. I had 2 second places in tournaments with the IF. (and a bunch of losses :))

 

But with the new SW codex I tend to go with a lot of GH and Rhinos, and RP. The RP seem to hinder my army because I play it safe, just to keep them in the game. But at the same time that is what causes me to loose as well. In the end I might have to leave the RP for something more offensive. It´s a new gameplay. :)

[dublindawg]

With a friendly game, it's just that, friendly. It's not about who has the best looking army or the biggest selection to field a force with, it's about having fun. If someone I am playing against is using proxy models in a friendly game, no problem, as long as they say what the proxy is. I have and seen others use large plastic cups as drop pods to get the feel of drop podding forces.

 

When it comes to tourneys, then yeah, the WYSIWYG policy should be used. While I haven't played in any tourneys, I have watched a few local ones and they require you to have proper models to represent what you are fielding.

 

For people that are using black templars, chaos, BA or whatever to represent their SW forces in friendly play, go for it. It allows people to get the feel of the codex without having to make the investment in new models and then realize that they don't like the army.

 

Remember, for most people this is a game to have fun and joke about stomping so and so's army the previous week. There shouldn't be any belittling of people who are trying out new things. It cheapens the experience and is not all that fun.

[AdeptusDavidus]

I'm using the Space Wolves codex for my DIY Chapter. The rules options it presents allow me to adhere more closely to the vision of the Blackfeather Raiders - a vision that I came up with before I had looked at any of the rules for Warhammer 40,000.

 

Though, I have to ask, this talk of matching paint scheme to codex so that an opponent knows what he's facing. This suggests to me that before the game, players don't say, "Yeah, I'm using the Blood Angel codex for these guys". Is this common practice? It certainly seems very unsporting.

[Beef]

It does not bother me for we may see a few true wol;ves come out of those badwagoners.

[Narthecium]

With a friendly game, it's just that, friendly. It's not about who has the best looking army or the biggest selection to field a force with, it's about having fun. If someone I am playing against is using proxy models in a friendly game, no problem, as long as they say what the proxy is. I have and seen others use large plastic cups as drop pods to get the feel of drop podding forces.

 

When it comes to tourneys, then yeah, the WYSIWYG policy should be used. While I haven't played in any tourneys, I have watched a few local ones and they require you to have proper models to represent what you are fielding.

 

For people that are using black templars, chaos, BA or whatever to represent their SW forces in friendly play, go for it. It allows people to get the feel of the codex without having to make the investment in new models and then realize that they don't like the army.

 

Remember, for most people this is a game to have fun and joke about stomping so and so's army the previous week. There shouldn't be any belittling of people who are trying out new things. It cheapens the experience and is not all that fun.

 

 

Last I checked tournaments had no policy on paint schemes outside of the three-colors requirement.

 

If every piece of wargear / character / etc is accurately represented, and it's simply the color that's different, I'm 99.9% sure you wouldn't be disqualified.

 

Again, I'm not talking about not having the proper models -- I'm talking about having proper models but just the wrong color scheme, but otherwise adhering to WYSIWYG.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm using the new SW Dex.

 

I have a GK Army. And it remains a GK amy.

 

This time, I'm using the SW Dex to represent them, instead of;

 

DH (Gah..), SM (Go Go Sternguard-a-likes with Kantor, and Scouts as IST) or the DA (For my All GKT list) lists I've used previously.

 

My GKT all have the correct wargear, and I'm building 'mounted' GK to represent TWC.

 

I think it's a sad state of affairs if anyone has a 'problem' with that... Especially as no one I play is mislead about which rule set I'm currenty using for my army, before we play.