thade Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Initially I was going to gear out a single marine in my WG squad with Wolf Claws (as only with the claw-offhand do they get one additional attack) but then I got to thinking...possibly I want to split that pair of claws across two wolfbrothers... 1. Two guys with wolf claws = more claw attacks than one guy with two wolf claws. This means higher odds a claw attack hits (which has very high odds of wounding MEQ). 2. Two guys with wolf claws = a single failed save will not cost me both claws. 3. I'll have two empty hands to stick storm bolters into. The only real pros I can think of for doubling them up would be: 1. Only one guy with claws might be able to hide in the unit while it's large. 2. One more vanilla guy to soak hits. 3. Looks cooler; more fluffy. My WG will have 2-3 guys with power weapons or a MotW, 2 storm shields, and a few vanillas for good measure. I feel that since they're WS 4 (50% to hit MEQ) more hits is better; I have a hard time justifying a heavy load out on a WS 4 model (for instance, two TH or PF on a normal marine is nice since you can hide him in the unit, but rarely garners much as 3 attacks at WS 4 will seldom dazzle you, no matter how cool it looks). What are your thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I'd say a single claw, it's like me and my thunder hammers, I love the models with PA but I take a storm bolter over a storm shield to save some points whilst being better than a bolt pistol which wouldn't grant an additional attack. I have a ten man TDA pack with two chainfists and 8 WG with single claws and storm bolters, fairly cheap, but still able to cause a lot of damage against hordes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hmm, i was wondering if taking Storm Bolter with Power Fist on WG would be a good idea. It is only 3 points more than pistol, and there won't be any extra attacks anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
imperious Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I usually take a combi-melta in the off hand of a Power Fist or Thunder Hammer wielding wolf guard. It can help make up for not having access to a second special weapon in grey hunters squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Yeah I am with imperious on this one. Take a combi-melta if your GH squads do not reach 10 guys because you want to fit them in a transport. But taking a storm bolter does make sense too. Longer range and you can fire into combat with it whereas with a combimelta if you fire into combat you must shoot with the melta shot. And for double claws vs single claw. IDK, playstule preference I guess. Probably depends on whether he is a pack leader or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I believe Thade here is working on a WG army but using power armour as well as TDA so combiweapons probably not as good an option because you really want your packs to mix it up in combat for the prices you're paying for the wargear, obviously a pack geared towards shooting could work as well but mixing them can become dangerous at lower points levels, because you lack a specialisation, the wolves should work in concert. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 I believe Thade here is working on a WG army but using power armour as well as TDA... This is, in fact, my goal. =) A combi-melta in particular interests me, as I've been wondering about balancing transports (LR is expensive, could carry a unit with a TDA-wearer in it; no TDA = a Rhino) and anti-vehicle (If it's a small enough unit the LR could have Lascannons on it, of course the dreads could have cyclone MLs). I mean, sure, a TH/PF is really nice anti-vehicle, but it's never been my preferred method of vehicle dispatching. Of course, I couldn't fire the rapid-fire bolter and charge...which is the motivation for taking the storm bolter. I suppose I could salt some melta bombs into the unit too. So many considerations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 If you're going for WG pack in PA, then I suggest just one WC and a SB or CM/CP. The same line of though I'd apply to TH+SS. Use either or in combination with a SB or CM/CP. The traditional setups (2WC, TH+SS) are very expensive when compared to their equivalents in TDA. IMO this cuases the cunnying SW player to use these tools of destruction in different combinations and quantities in order to wreak the most damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Looking in the book is there even a benefit to taking two lightning claws? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Looking in the book is there even a benefit to taking two lightning claws? Extra attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Looking in the book is there even a benefit to taking two lightning claws? Extra attack. Can't you get that with a Strom Bolter in Termi Armor? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Nope, lightning claws, powerfists, thunder hammers and variants need an identical weapon to claim an attack, and storm bolters never count as giving an extra attack as they cannot be counted as an additional close combat weapon like a pistol can. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Looking in the book is there even a benefit to taking two lightning claws? Extra attack. Can't you get that with a Strom Bolter in Termi Armor? Well, i was referring to PA with dual claws, but to answer to you question, no i don't think so as SB isn't a pistol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logain the Ranger Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Ok was wondering on that. I plan on running some WG terminators with Blackmane, and was wondering whether to use two LCs with 3 of them or take 1 LC with another weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 PA or TDA, you can only get the +1 bonus attack for an off-hand when you use a power fist, thunder hammer, or lightning claw if the off-hand is the same weapon (2x PF, 2xTH, 2xLC). Doesn't matter what you wield for an offhand otherwise. <3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJumppanen Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 PA or TDA, you can only get the +1 bonus attack for an off-hand when you use a power fist, thunder hammer, or lightning claw if the off-hand is the same weapon (2x PF, 2xTH, 2xLC). Doesn't matter what you wield for an offhand otherwise. <3 So what i mentioned earlier was correct? So there is no extra attacks for PW+SB? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Correct. Also my two cents- More attacks overall is better than an extra lightningclaw attack in my book. Thus, Id say take two, or take on and a stormshield. Most of the time a pair isnt that expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2178929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Most of the time a pair isnt that expensive. I was somewhat disappointed in the cost of 2 WC for a PA WG, with all the hype such as early order blister and artwork I thought the cost would make it the preferred choice rather than the Power Fist. For 48 points though the CM/PF is my choice. Now if they would have had the rending rule instead of re-roll choice, then that would be a different story. On the TDA WG, SS/WC seems better choice. For simply having a cool looking model on the table, twin WC hands down. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Most of the time a pair isnt that expensive. I was somewhat disappointed in the cost of 2 WC for a PA WG, with all the hype such as early order blister and artwork I thought the cost would make it the preferred choice rather than the Power Fist. For 48 points though the CM/PF is my choice. Now if they would have had the rending rule instead of re-roll choice, then that would be a different story. Yeah, that would have been a different story, wouldn't it? Would have brought back some of the power that they had back in 2nd edition. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Where will you benefit from the extra attack? In close combat. Where will you benefit from the storm bolter shots? Everywhere except in close combat. Where will you spend most of your time? That's up to you. My terminators have a default armament of storm bolter and lightning claw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 lets face it, in this version of 40k, you'll spend 60%+ of the game in close combat. I would say no. of attacks is more important, perhaps than the weapon type.... I would go with frost blades to give the +1 str and get an extra attack combined with bolt pistol... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobman Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Most of the time a pair isnt that expensive. I was somewhat disappointed in the cost of 2 WC for a PA WG, with all the hype such as early order blister and artwork I thought the cost would make it the preferred choice rather than the Power Fist. For 48 points though the CM/PF is my choice. Now if they would have had the rending rule instead of re-roll choice, then that would be a different story. On the TDA WG, SS/WC seems better choice. For simply having a cool looking model on the table, twin WC hands down. Vrox. I don't have my rulebook to double check but don't lightning claws have rending? does it not say wolf claws are a pair of lightning claws that allow player to reroll either/or? Just a thought Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179824 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 "A wolf claw is a lightning claw that allows the wielder to eather re-roll to hit rolls or re-roll his to wound rolls - the owener must choose at the beginning of each close combat phace." It seems like a triggered abilaty to me (yes I play magic) Each close combat phase each claw in that combat face lets you chose wetaher re rolls to hit or to wound. If he had two claws on the same model he could chose to do one of each. Since it does not spesify anything else that is what it mounts up to. I was wondering though, does it anywhere in the rules say anything about multiple re rolls? Could you take a wolftooth necklace and chose to reroll both to damadge? (Or if it could re-roll from anywhere else for that matter. Like alone wolf vs thoughnes 5.)) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 "A wolf claw is a lightning claw that allows the wielder to eather re-roll to hit rolls or re-roll his to wound rolls - the owener must choose at the beginning of each close combat phace." It seems like a triggered abilaty to me (yes I play magic) Each close combat phase each claw in that combat face lets you chose wetaher re rolls to hit or to wound. If he had two claws on the same model he could chose to do one of each. Since it does not spesify anything else that is what it mounts up to. I was wondering though, does it anywhere in the rules say anything about multiple re rolls? Could you take a wolftooth necklace and chose to reroll both to damadge? (Or if it could re-roll from anywhere else for that matter. Like alone wolf vs thoughnes 5.)) You are misinterpreting this I think (also coming from a former Magic player). It says you can choose whether to re-roll hit rolls or...his to wound rolls." Whether you are rolling for one claw or two, you still only get one *set* of each, and that's what it's talking about. Were it the case you could split this choice, it would specify. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Most of the time a pair isnt that expensive. I was somewhat disappointed in the cost of 2 WC for a PA WG, with all the hype such as early order blister and artwork I thought the cost would make it the preferred choice rather than the Power Fist. For 48 points though the CM/PF is my choice. Now if they would have had the rending rule instead of re-roll choice, then that would be a different story. On the TDA WG, SS/WC seems better choice. For simply having a cool looking model on the table, twin WC hands down. Vrox. I don't have my rulebook to double check but don't lightning claws have rending? does it not say wolf claws are a pair of lightning claws that allow player to reroll either/or? Just a thought Lightning Claws do not have Rending. They count as a Power Weapon and allow the wielder to re-roll to wound. BRB, p42. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184284-wg-and-clawssingles-or-in-pairs/#findComment-2179872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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