IG psychic Choir questions

[BDS]

Played a game recently versus IG with two 9man pyshic units that could send out a blast template or reduce LD of a selected unit within 36" and LOS.

 

1. Do you get any kind of save versus the LD reducing attack...either cover or invul?

 

2. Can this power target models in CC?

 

3. Can this power be used from inside a Chimera?

 

 

 

I basically just followed the IG players interpretation and allowed all three, but several things bother me.

 

If this is a shooting attack, then usually models can not be targetted in CC, cover saves and especially invuls are used for the vast majority of shooting attacks...and a Chimera only allows two models to see out...so how do 9 models benfit? (since the strenght is measured by number of psychics)

 

Thanks,

BDS

[Seahawk]

1. Do you get any kind of save versus the LD reducing attack...either cover or invul?

As it does not cause wounds, you don't get any save whatsoever. Psychic hoods can negate it though.

 

2. Can this power target models in CC?

While Weaken Resolve does require Line of Sight, being in close combat doesn't block or negate that LOS, it merely means they can't be shot at. Since it's not a psychic shooting attack, and indeed it specifies "any unit within 36"," it can be used on units in CC.

 

3. Can this power be used from inside a Chimera?

Yes, they use the Fire Point as any other psychic power would.

 

and a Chimera only allows two models to see out...so how do 9 models benfit? (since the strenght is measured by number of psychics)

Chimeras actually allow 5 models to shoot from their Fire Point. This is moot, as the IG codex says the PBS counts as a single psyker for purposes of LOS and measuring distances.

 

Just remember, Soulstorm is a psychic shooting attack, so the answers would be a little different:

1. Yes you get armor (maybe), invulnerable, and cover saves.

2. No, as it's a shooting attack.

3. Yes, for the same reason as the (3) above.

 

All told, your opponent did it right :lol:.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

I’m not sure about the use of Weaken Resolve and affecting units locked in close combat. I realize that Soul Storm is a Psychic Shooting attack because it says so explicitly & provides the stat line for the weapon characteristics. Yet, Weaken Resolve sure sounds like a shooting attack that doesn’t happen to cause wounds. It’s “used in the shooting phase,” vs. “one enemy unit within 36” and line of sight of the Psyker Battle Squad.”

 

I had this same question come up when ruling on the Lash of Submission which is worded almost identically. According to the C:CSM FAQ, affected “units cannot be moved out of combat.”

 

So, in general, I believe that ranged psychic powers should follow the same rules as shooting even if the net outcome is not necessarily to cause wounds. So this power could not be used if the psyker was himself was engaged in close combat nor could they “shoot” at a unit that was engaged in close combat.

 

If anyone can cite something that runs contrary to this I’d like to hear it.

 

-OMG

[Frosty the Pyro]

I’m not sure about the use of Weaken Resolve and affecting units locked in close combat. I realize that Soul Storm is a Psychic Shooting attack because it says so explicitly & provides the stat line for the weapon characteristics. Yet, Weaken Resolve sure sounds like a shooting attack that doesn’t happen to cause wounds. It’s “used in the shooting phase,” vs. “one enemy unit within 36” and line of sight of the Psyker Battle Squad.”

 

I had this same question come up when ruling on the Lash of Submission which is worded almost identically. According to the C:CSM FAQ, affected “units cannot be moved out of combat.”

 

So, in general, I believe that ranged psychic powers should follow the same rules as shooting even if the net outcome is not necessarily to cause wounds. So this power could not be used if the psyker was himself was engaged in close combat nor could they “shoot” at a unit that was engaged in close combat.

 

If anyone can cite something that runs contrary to this I’d like to hear it.

 

-OMG

 

I am fairly certain with Lash the reason for that is that lashes causes the unit to MOVE, and you may not move when engaged in combat. I am going to agree with seahawk here.

[Seahawk]

That units can't be moved out of combat means nothing so far as whether Lash can target a unit in combat; it just means they can't be moved when the power is used on them.

 

Soulstorm is clearly labeled as a psychic shooting attack. Weaken Resolve is clearly not labeled as such. Just because it is used in the shooting phase means nothing. Is Null Zone a psychic shooting attack? No, even though it's used in the SM shooting phase. If it is not a shooting attack, it is not a shooting attack, simple as that :D.

[BDS]

Thanks for the input. I thinks you are correct Seahawk, my opponent did it right.

 

But, boy were those two squads irritating! My Tsons did manage a clear victory, I should just get used to being out psyched, lol.

 

Once I spawned a melta gun toting vet, he nullifed almost every power after that. Though my now named "super spawn" ate 2 1/2 squads before going down.

 

I admittedly played the mission and ignored the choir squads..in cover...in a chimera= tough to damage with my limted fire power.

 

Here is a bat rep if your interested: http://www.40kfightclub.com/modules.php?na...pic&t=20515

 

Thank you for the prompt answers,

BDS

[OwlandMoonGuy]

Soulstorm is clearly labeled as a psychic shooting attack. Weaken Resolve is clearly not labeled as such. Just because it is used in the shooting phase means nothing. Is Null Zone a psychic shooting attack? No, even though it's used in the SM shooting phase. If it is not a shooting attack, it is not a shooting attack, simple as that :).

Well Null Zone is hardly a point of comparison because it isn’t shot at anyone – it affects a defined area. So in that case, if an enemy unit fell within the area of effect the fact that it was engaged in close combat isn’t relevant. I was more referring to non-Psychic shooting attacks that are in fact, psychic, shot & attacks (though not in the wounding sense of the term).

 

So as per the BRB pg. 50, “The psychic powers available to our models are not discussed further here, but are described in detail in the Codexes, where you will find complete rules for individual powers.”

 

So I freely concede. All the rules to use Weaken Resolve are found within its own description. Since there’s no restriction mentioned for shooting into close combat then you can shoot into close combat.

 

I rather like the idea that ALL shooting should follow the same rules for shooting for obvious reasons. But oh well, it’s just not the case.

 

-OMG

[Frosty the Pyro]

I think the point is that Weaken resolve is not a shooting attack. Its just a psychic power used during the shooting phase.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

I’ve heard & understood that point clearly but… my point is that the Weaken Resolve power is in fact shot. It’s not an area affect like Null Zone nor is it transferred to the enemy like a wound from a Force Weapon.

 

In game terms, the power is shot from the Psychic Choir to the target unit and some typical shooting limitations apply just not all of them. So it is a non-Psychic Shooting Attack in that it doesn’t cause wounds but otherwise pretty well functions like a shooting attack of the psychic variety.

 

-OMG