Scout bikers

[Brother Santios]

Hiya i'm considering using Scout Bikers but not sure as to how effective they are and what role to put them in ?

 

My thoughts right now are to use 3 x G.Launchers and use them to hunt lightly armoured vehicles and troops at the back of the board.

 

Any experiences or thoughts on the subject are as always more than welcome

[Brother Santios]

So i take it by the lack of replies either no one rates them or no one uses them ?

[Race Bannon]

More than 3 hours patience is needed, especially after the board was offline for more than 24 hours, it appears. BUT, you are in luck because I have been using them lately (since I was able to afford them :D)

 

In a word, awesome. BUT, they are not for the "all-comers" list. The WS/BS 3 makes a huge difference. But 10 points for a relentless krak grenade throwing wargear is unbelievable. Being able to use Cluster mines and a Beacon on such a mobile and tough unit is a glorious thing to watch. BUT, in addition to the 1 point difference in offense, the 1 point difference in armor save is also huge. They are just not full Space Marines and cannot be treated as such.

 

I'd say get 4+ to make them really worth it. But do not make them a permanent part of your army.

[greatcrusade08]

I did a huge section on them in my tactica (link in sig)

 

there is alot of ways to use them, the advantages they have are:

Infiltrate/scout move: which gaurantees first turn charges should you get first turn.

Outflank: very good for htting rear of vehicles and taking out dev type units.

Mines: exceptional piece of wargear, even if it doesnt get triggered, the use of mind games throughout the game will see them earn thier points ten fold.

Grenade launchers: As stated are brilliant, sure BS3 is a little poor but rapid firing templates or S6 shots... gimme gimme :D

 

I generally run mine with meltabombs or fist dependant on unit size, i wont take a fist if less than 5 models, also with a 4+ save its useful to have at least 2-3 un upgraded models for ablative wounds.

 

A few points though;

Sergeant cant have GL

and cant have both combi-weapon/plasma and a fist, its one or the other unfortunately.

 

Gc08

[Starblayde]

Hiya i'm considering using Scout Bikers but not sure as to how effective they are and what role to put them in ?

Cluster Mines are cheap and can be awesome.

Locator Beacons are not so cheap and let your Termies and Dreads come down right where you want them. Turbo boost is fun, Scout moves are fun. And, once you've added those three up together, you then have a mobile unit running around the back of your enemy's line while something very killy stomps around beside them, taking all the fire. Add some Melta Bombs to the Sergeant and then they can be very scary for vehicles skulking around at the back.

 

They'll often be dead by Turn Two or Three, mind you, but if it all comes off then what a glorious and useful couple of Turns it can be for a fairly cheap (by Astartes standards) unit.

[Brother Santios]

Well i'm definately going to use scout bikers then, i have four and i intend running 3 with astartes grenade launchers and the sgt with a fist.

 

I'm going to use them in the 'rear armour' and 'anti horde' roll with the powerfist in there for a bit of 'umph' where needed!

 

thanks for the advice guys

[glayvin34]

I think they're great, what makes them different from standard scouts is the ability to choose between shotgun or TL bolter/ GL each time they shoot. Depending on what's going on, you can either shotgun then tarpit or bolter/GL and hopefully decimate.

 

Also, they are the best (only?) way to get a drop pod on top of your enemy's lines on turn 1. They aren't great for general Deepstrike, though, as they'll probably be dust by turn 2 or 3.

[Sanctjud]

If mounted assault rules involved them I would be all over them.

But because they don't, I don't think I'll ever use them.

 

They look cool, but I guess it's personal taste that I don't need a unit to be there turn 1, nor do I need infiltrate like that.

 

I think they are a flavor/niche unit, not something that fits into any list. It needs synergies to be of worth.

I've seen too many use them as one trick ponies though...I generaly look down on players that rely on something very heavily to 'make' their units viable.

 

Clustermines can be double edged sword.

It could deny you a terrain too should you get the side as your deployment zone.

[greatcrusade08]

Clustermines can be double edged sword.

It could deny you a terrain too should you get the side as your deployment zone.

 

cluster mines are placed before deployment, table edges have been established by then.

 

Gc08

[Sanctjud]

Page 67 of the SM Codex, please read it again.

They are placed after terrain is placed...that's well before deciding deployment zones.

[greatcrusade08]

Both statements could be true, in most game stores the terrain is already placed, what do you do then?

 

Unless the quotes specifically states the mines are deployed before table edges are chosen then it leaves a whole grey area..

Ive used it this way since Day dot, and tbh its more reprisentative of how they work (why would scout bikes reccy ahead of your force and drop mines in your own deployment zone)

 

Gc08

[Bannus]

It could also specify after terrain is placed because what good is it to booby-trap a terrain piece if it hasn't been decided yet where it will be placed - or even used for that matter.

[Sanctjud]

@greatcrusade08:

I wouldn't call a fluff reason a good way of trying to explain your interpretation of the rules.

It could be comletely turned around:

Maybe your forces are still arriving, they dropped bombs in what they 'thought' was to be the enemy's deployment zone, but your dudes arrived early instead and the enemy holds off approaching blah blah blah.

 

The RAW is: "..can booby-trap one piece of area terrain before the game begins...At the start of the game, after terrain is placed..."

 

I can see the grey area now.

Since you say it's a grey area, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we could be both wrong.

[greatcrusade08]

Cluster mines: When operating behind enemy lines, scout bikers carry cluster mines - explosive devices crammed with tiny anti-personnel bomblets and triggered by tripwires or pressure senses. They are deployed in defensible positions to deny thier use to all but the bravest or most foolhardy foes

 

Fluff may be an undesirable arguing point for you, but for me it provides a great insight into how these things work.

they are behind enemy lines and place the mines in enemies defensive positions.

RAW, its straight from the codex albeit a fluff section but still valid none the less

 

It could be comletely turned around:

Maybe your forces are still arriving, they dropped bombs in what they 'thought' was to be the enemy's deployment zone, but your dudes arrived early instead and the enemy holds off approaching blah blah blah.

 

~Kinda shoots speculation like this straight out of the water.

 

More importantly, ive been playing scouts as a stand alone force since the release of the 5th ed codex, i have done it this way since my first game and no-one has ever denied it based on a grey area...

 

And further more as you pointed out a grey area could mean we have differing opinions, this is where fluff comes in.. it can add weight to opinions to make them more valid!

 

GC08

[Sanctjud]

Well, i'm not too sure about Fluff picking up where RAW fails.

You may have no problems with it. And if we get to a game together I have no issues with it. I'm just pointing out not everyone sees it that way, and for those interested in using scout bikers might come to a situation where someone else does not agree with how 'this' works.

__________________

 

I'm sorry if I was taking this on a tangent, let me get back on topic:

 

What do you feel about large maxed sized scouts?

I had considered them waaayyy back before I found my love for a power armored biker army.

[greatcrusade08]

no probs, i understand some dont always see things as i do especially with grey areas, fortunately my experience with scouts normally means people trust my judgement... ;p

 

Back to topic..

 

When i switched to 1750 point scout armies, i found the only way to make them work was by taking 2 maxed bike squads, one with sword led by a counts as khan the other with fist.

Infact the Khan unit took out a TH/SS termy squad led by Lysander with grenade shots and I5 S5 power weapon hits.. if it wasnt for lysanders eternal warrior Khan would have beheaded him with the 6 on the wound roll..

As it was lysander survived but thats beside the point... fact is these guys rock.

 

10 T5 scouts with fist and 3 grenade launchers comes in about 275 points, thats pretty good!

 

Gc08

[Bannus]

Just be sure to discuss it with your opponent before the game....

 

 

....or don't. :)