fall back from a building

[Albion de Heaven]

Hi all

 

yesterday while playing with a friend we got a new (for us) situation

 

he had a devastator on the 2nd floor of a building (normal terrain, 3'' for each floor).

 

He failed a morale test and had to fall back, so he rolled his 2d6 and got a 3''

 

now the problem: not all the models could do all 3'' inches because some where far from border and so could move only 2'' or 5'' to get down.

 

what happens? are they destroyed?

the manual p.45 says "if the unit cannot perform a full fall back move in any direction without doubling back, it is destroyed"

 

but talks about enemy models, impassable terrains or friendly models, never talks about different eight floors so we was a bit confused.

 

 

can you enlight us? :D

[thade]

Interesting.

 

The way we've always played it is that it's 3" to change what floor you're on, so if what you're saying is the case, then any unit in a building that rolls less than the height of the building they're in (i.e. they don't exit) AND they don't roll a multiple of 3 (meaning they have to move 1" or 2" more but can't as it's another floor down) then they're destroyed.

 

I'm gonna call that shenanigans :D as 1" or 2" more you could just shuffle them along the floor they're on towards your table edge and call it a day, as they will be auto-rallying the next turn (they are marines, after all).

[Frosty the Pyro]

Interesting.

 

The way we've always played it is that it's 3" to change what floor you're on, so if what you're saying is the case, then any unit in a building that rolls less than the height of the building they're in (i.e. they don't exit) AND they don't roll a multiple of 3 (meaning they have to move 1" or 2" more but can't as it's another floor down) then they're destroyed.

 

I'm gonna call that shenanigans ;) as 1" or 2" more you could just shuffle them along the floor they're on towards your table edge and call it a day, as they will be auto-rallying the next turn (they are marines, after all).

 

I am going to mostly agree with this (but remember marines dont auto-rally if enemies are within 6") So if you can move 2 inches toward your table edge your good, if you cant move them in a legal direction at all (including going down by using 3" of movement) I think they would be destroyed.

[SeattleDV8]

I disagree, the unit did not 'double back', they made the move as far as they were able.

Now if a enemy unit was on the ground floor and blocked the unit from moving, then the unit would be destroyed.

[DarkGuard]

Seems a tad harsh to destroy the unit because one lonely Trooper couldn't quite get his toes on the floor below...

 

I'm going to agree with SeattleDV8, I can see where everyone else is coming from, but IMO as long as they are moving that way, and falling back then it's fine by my. Using something that happens on rare occasions for something else that is uncommon resulting in a destroyed unit just seems to kill the fun for me.

[Narthecium]

If you rolled a 2 and could move to the floor below I'd let you have it, personally. I'm not going to say they're going to be destroyed because technically nothing is blocking their backwards move, they were just not able to move far enough to hit the floor below them.

 

 

Multiple floors has always kinda ticked me off in 40k to be honest.

[thade]

I agree with the general consensus here (though it may not have appeared so in my initial response).

 

Basically, if they rolled 1 or 2 inches shy of reaching a floor, I would NOT rule them destroyed; I would instead allow them to reach that floor (giving them a +1 or +2 on their fallback roll). This may be appealing for tournament mongers as for the defender it means their unit is not outright destroyed, and for the attacker it means the unit has fallen back farther than it otherwise would have (and as it's straight down, odds are it's not further away, so you could easily still be within 6" to prevent rally, etc) and it's much more in the spirit of the game (i.e. why on earth would soliders never rally or be killed if they couldn't negotiate a tricky stair case??).

[ShinyRhino]

A good median would be to have any model who was "suspended" inmidair by the 2" move roll a save against a wound. Pass, they fall to the floor below. Fail, they break their necks and die.

[Commander Sasha]

A good median would be to have any model who was "suspended" inmidair by the 2" move roll a save against a wound. Pass, they fall to the floor below. Fail, they break their necks and die.

^I like this, although I'd do it as a dangerous terrain, failing on a 1; units with poor armour would get hammered otherwise, Kroot (no armour) would automatically fail.

[ShinyRhino]

A good median would be to have any model who was "suspended" inmidair by the 2" move roll a save against a wound. Pass, they fall to the floor below. Fail, they break their necks and die.

^I like this, although I'd do it as a dangerous terrain, failing on a 1; units with poor armour would get hammered otherwise, Kroot (no armour) would automatically fail.

 

Good point. Kroot are one of those races you'd think could survive a fall pretty well, lol.

[Frosty the Pyro]

An initive or toughness test would also work fairly well. But now we are in house rule mode.

[thade]

An initive or toughness test would also work fairly well. But now we are in house rule mode.

 

True. Still, I feel that the official ruling would not result in the unit being destroyed.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Well officialy it would be the following checklist

 

Did they move toward your table edge?

Did they use their full move?

Did they avoid walking over the same ground twice(double back)?

 

If you answered no for any of these, they are destroyed.

 

I might have missed a point, its late an I am not pullin out the rulebook. its that second one thats getin you in this situation, but it will only mater if you are in the ruin, pressed against the side nearest your table edge, as you can nornal just move horizantaly. Is it silly, yeah. Would I enforce it in a freindly game, no. But I can't see a way around it in the actual rules.

[Albion de Heaven]

Well officialy it would be the following checklist

 

Did they move toward your table edge?

Did they use their full move?

Did they avoid walking over the same ground twice(double back)?

 

If you answered no for any of these, they are destroyed.

 

I might have missed a point, its late an I am not pullin out the rulebook. its that second one thats getin you in this situation, but it will only mater if you are in the ruin, pressed against the side nearest your table edge, as you can nornal just move horizantaly. Is it silly, yeah. Would I enforce it in a freindly game, no. But I can't see a way around it in the actual rules.

 

Yes I think that RAW this is the correct answer and the should be destroyed but I think that for gaming fun I will propose my friends to play with this 2 rules:

 

I agree with the general consensus here (though it may not have appeared so in my initial response).

 

Basically, if they rolled 1 or 2 inches shy of reaching a floor, I would NOT rule them destroyed; I would instead allow them to reach that floor (giving them a +1 or +2 on their fallback roll). This may be appealing for tournament mongers as for the defender it means their unit is not outright destroyed, and for the attacker it means the unit has fallen back farther than it otherwise would have (and as it's straight down, odds are it's not further away, so you could easily still be within 6" to prevent rally, etc) and it's much more in the spirit of the game (i.e. why on earth would soliders never rally or be killed if they couldn't negotiate a tricky stair case??).

 

 

A good median would be to have any model who was "suspended" inmidair by the 2" move roll a save against a wound. Pass, they fall to the floor below. Fail, they break their necks and die.

^I like this, although I'd do it as a dangerous terrain, failing on a 1; units with poor armour would get hammered otherwise, Kroot (no armour) would automatically fail.

 

 

So if you have to fall back from a building and don't get enought movement to get to a safe spot you have to make a difficoult terrain test for each miniature, another friend proposed that if u are on an high building and so u need to go down 2 or more floors you get a test for each floor (for example a squad on the 2nd and 3rd floor of a tower)... i will let you know :)

[DarkGuard]

The ideas here of dangerous terrain checks, armour saves and the like seem very reasonable compared to the suggestion of killing all of the models in the unit for having their fallback corridor blocked off. Maybe I can add my own? Each model in the affected unit must take a Toughness test (rule equal to or lower than toughness or take a wound), with these wounds along armour and invulnerable saves. Seems very hard to kill the models in questions, but then I feel this accurately reflects the chances of the various races and troops of surviving a fall taking into account their natural toughness and armour. That Kroot is more likely to break his neck and suffer damage without armour compared to the tougher Marine with rock-hard armour!

 

From what I read of the rules, this rule is put in place so that enemy units carefully trapped between the enemy and impassable terrain are destroyed, however, unless the enemy is surronding the entire building, the idea of destroying the entire unit for not rolling a 3 on two die seems absurd and very much against the spirit of the rules. I do not believe the designers meant for this to happen when writing the rules and this is simply and oversight by GW. To me, people who seek to enforce the idea that the unit is destroyed are just looking for a cheap way to cripple their enemy further. Isn't it enough that the unit is falling back and that unless it is a Space Marine, will be ineffectual for one turn. I know that RAW the unit should be destroyed, but like I've said, it doesn't seem in the spirit of the game.

 

So if this (hopefully rare) situation turns up in my game, I think I'll be letting my opponent extend his move that extra inch to allow his troops to reach the next floor down. I'll go and finish them off later when my Marines go in and butcher the frightened unit.

[thade]

Personally I think making any of the models take any saves is too much, let alone force them to be destroyed. I really think it should just slide for something this arbitrary.