Sargeants!?

[Ravenfeld]

In most of my lists I run into the distinct problem of not setting points aside to customize my sarges. I mean the only sarge that gets any love is my scout Sarge because I intend to use my scouts in a more "in your face" sort of role so I want to know if I am shooting myself in the foot by leaving my tactical sarges and stern sarges with their basic starting gear. I have a couple army lists posted My Lists so you can see what I am working with for the most part. Really that is the only qualm I have with my armies. So I would like to know how you guys feel about your Sarges and how you like to equip them for the roles that you use them for!

 

Thanks!

 

-- Putrius

 

P.S: I should also mention this is for loyalist Sarges, I don't have this problem with my Chaos forces hehe.

[Hfran Morkai]

You're going to get a lot of: "Powerfist" and probably a fair few mentions of combi-weapons.

 

Because each squad should have something to deal with that dreadnought slightly easier than a krak grenade.

[Koremu]

The only reason not to use a Powerfist are if you specifically want Init 4 attacks, or if you are taking a Thunder Hammer instead.

[Ravenfeld]

Well for me it was more of a lack of points than a lack of desire. I just want to know if I should attempt to shimmy some points around to give my sarges PF's or TH's in place of some other things like HKM's on my Ironclads or what have you. Also would Plasma pistols be a worth while investment? Or power weapons?

[terminatorAM]

my take on it is any squad that plans on moving out of your deployment zone is likely to be in cc sooner or later. So if u are using ur squads for ANYTHING other then sit-and-shoot, they need a powerfist to take care of a wide variety of potential opponents, (this is much more useful than a one shot HKM)

[Grey Mage]

A seargent with a Powerwweapon or fist will often kill as many heavy infantry as the entirety of the attached tactical squad- I kid you not. For that reason alone it is worth it.

 

If you are taking a fist, or going to arm your seargent with a bolter anyways then it is almost always worth it to give him a combiweapon that complements the squad or a stormbolter.

 

Meltabombs are situational, but incredibly cheap. I would not put them on a seargent upgraded with a fist however.

[Bannus]

I think it is important to equip some of your Sergeants with extra wargear - but not necessarily ALL of them. Especially if you are short on points.

 

But it does make deployment much more important. ;)

[Giga]

The serge in my defensive tac squad always gets a chainsword instead of his boltgun.

 

The other two squads, the sergeants get power fists.

 

In Vulkan lists, the sergeants with the powerfists also get combiflamers.

 

My Sternguard sergeant gets a powerfist.

[DarkGuard]

In my list, if the unit is moving out, I will try and make sure it has a power fist in it. So for example my two Rhino bourne Tactical squads and Sternguard squad will have a power fist in them. I tend to run out of points to give them to my objective camper though, so he goes with CCW/BP. I don't tend to bother with combis, all those points for one shot? No thanks.

 

I find power fists to be useful, as you have a nice big attack with 10 wounds effectively, that can crush any infantry and take out a large amount of tanks.

[pryor]

My sgts are always armed with Power Fist & Combi-Flamer which I think compliment each other nicely.

The Power Fist can smack down the high toughness units and the flame template can reduce horde units (even MEQs) before the charge.

Mounted in Rhinos this combination works very well.

However if you're going to set back I would say just give the sgt just a Bolter because if something gets (least say by outflank or deepstrike) chances are it's elite and you're going to get pasted anyway.

[Brother Emund]

Sargeants.. are they the same as Sergeants, as in NCO's (Non-Commissioned officers)???

[ShinyRhino]

I used to run all my tactical sergeants with just the basic bolt pistol and chainsword. Now I run one with a power weapon and bolt pistol, and one with a combimelta. If I need a third tactical squad, it'll be a sergeant with bolt pistol and chainsword. I've never run a sergeant with a powerfist yet. I play a more mobile force, so I figure if I get tied in close combat by something that can't be dealt with by a power weapon, I did something wrong. 25 points is a LOT for a powerfist that attacks at I1. I'm not a fan of reducing my initiative.

 

The only sergreant I bother with a powerfist on is my Assault Squad. Those guys are often on anti-vehicle, anti-walker, or anti-character duty. The fist manages to swing because of the number of ablative wounds in the squad, and because of target selection. Punching the guts out of a Sentinel or Kan is worth the points there.

 

I always give every sergeant in all of my armies a set of meltabombs. These are 100% invaluable, and a steal for their points.

 

I've also given out a couple teleport homers, though not often. I like this piece of wargear because it allows my Terminator reinforcements to arrive in the corect spot to actually reinforce the troubled unit. It is a little expensive though, so I usually only buy one if I have a defined battle plan for the Terminators.

[Brother Santios]

In a small game - 500-1500 pts i drop the powerfists and just take a chainsword on my tactical sgts. This is purely for points saving but having a powerfist can really add some umph and make people think twice about committing those dreads / walkers or similar

[Deus de Mortalis]

It's true that the tooled up sergeant is half the squad's CC killing power, at least. A power fist can destroy almost anything in the game, and often has a good chance of doing that. Fighting against dreadnoughts with krak grenades is a bad idea, the power fist is usually more deadly than a melta bomb against other vehicles, and power weapons aren't going to wound monstrous creatures in the same way that the power fist can. Against normal marines the fist is more deadly than the power weapon, even with 1 less attack. It also allows you to take combi-weapons without sacrificing any close combat fighting ability. At only ten points more than a power weapon, it is a bargain. I try not to leave home without one. I kit out my tac squads with a plasma cannon, usually flamer, power fist, rhino, and combi-flamer if points allow. The plasma cannon detachments hang back and shoot while the close range detachments move up in the rhinos and support my scouts, assault marines, bikes, whatever.

[Commander Proteus]

I tend to like upgrading sarges, as it gives flavor to the units. A bolt pistol, and chainsword isn't bad, but, sometimes I like a power weapon, or fist, and for shooty units, I tend to pack a storm bolter or combi-plasma. Sometimes, a plasma pistol is nice as well.

 

It's extra points, yes, but I really think upgrades pack a good punch, and really put "caps" on the unit, and define its role more completley.

 

-Proteus

[Jamumools]

I have 2 tactical squads, both have chainsword and bolt pistol on the serge. I run a very balanced force and the tactical squads are just that - designed to encounter any tactical situation and do better than average. A power fist would mean they'd be better at combat, but they do ok already. The initial plan wasn't to use them in combat but in one game I needed to and realised they're actually quite tasty - they are Space Marines after all! They get 22 attacks on the charge, with the 10 shots from bolt pistols in the shooting phase as well, and they have initiative 4, strength and toughness 4 and they have power armour... If you charge an Ork Boyz squad you're actually doing quite a lot of damage before the power claw gets to hit you back.

 

The other way of looking at it is - what else can I buy with 25 (or 50) points? For me, 2 power fists is over half way towards either a Dakka Predator, a Landspeeder Tornado or a Landspeeder Typhoon - all more tactically versatile units. One power fist costs more than the upgrades I have on tactical squads (a lascannon in one, and a melta gun in another).

 

I do have a power fist in my assault squad, but they're designed for mostly assault anyway, so it makes more sense to have one in there...

[Grey Mage]

Ahh see for me the PF is a "just in case" measure. I like them on my squads... just in case.

 

Fire Support Squads that will be near a dreadnaught, well Ill skimp on them.

[ShinyRhino]

Ahh see for me the PF is a "just in case" measure. I like them on my squads... just in case.

 

Fire Support Squads that will be near a dreadnaught, well Ill skimp on them.

 

I can definitely see the "JIC" factor.

Lately I've been trying to run mutually supportive units, and it has turned out that Venerable Dreads are spectacular compliments to tactical squads in Rhinos. So, I've got no immediate plans to powerfist up my sergeants. The Ven Dreads do it bigger and better. A power weapon helps me thin down numbers (which a Dread just can't do) every turn, regardless of armor saves. Meltabombs are for vehicle popping, and that longshot against a walker in combat.

[Brother Evar]

I don't think I have not had a SM unit character/sage/asp champ without either a PW, PF or combi weapon since I started playing half way through 3rd edition. I never regreted taking weapon upgrades over things like vechicle upgrades. IMHO unit characters for all SM armies are key to playing the game- they give a CC buff and better Ld to units. Why not take them? With 5th ed the loss of +1 A for pistol and PF has led to a perhapes stronger unit character with a combi weapon. You can fry a tank if you DS w/ CM or rapid fire x2 plasma shots and if you are SW or chaos thats like x6 shots (x4 PG, X2 CP) on an assaulty MEQ unit or DS termi's/dreads. Sometimes for me it seems the sarge is more valueble than the squad itself. Hidden fists still work but PF cost is up, PF hit rear armour in vechicle CC matchups ect. And fluff wise what is cooler than a squad leader stepping up and taking on a warboss/chaos lord smashing it down with a fist/PW. He is not the captain or commander making it more significant.

[Brightguy]

Yes

[silversmith82]

I feel powerfists are almost a necessity on sergeants especially due to combat squads and drop pods. Popular tactic is to split the squads down, leave 5 with a heavy weapon hanging back as a min-dev scoring unit and then run the other 5 in a rhino or razorback tank hunting or flamering infantry or podding in behind enemy lines to create havoc. The pfist makes the tac squad a very legitimate threat to anything large as well and this alone is worth the cost IMO. Anything without eternal warrior and T4 or less (almost every character in the game) is an insta gib candidate. Not to mention it's just fluffy as hell and basically required if you are playing IF or CF lol.

[FabulousRex]

This really is an area where Mathhammer and Real-Game experience combine nicely. I'll go ahead and type so as to distill many games-worth of experience from many gamers:

 

Powerfists put the Tactical in Tactical Squad.

 

Really, this might be the more important choice to be made with a TacSqd than any other option. Ranged weapons are deployment and enemy specific choices that tie into your overall battleplan. That PF adds a versatility to your Troops choice that is unmatched in any other Codex (quote me on this). Powerfists make Tactical Squads into the true masters of combat that they are portrayed as being. Adding that layer to your squad means that they can truly fufill -any- role you want them to do. Without a PF, they cannot handle CC against the vast majority of enemies in the 40k world that they must be able to handle! When I play against a PF-equipped TacSqd with a transport, I know that I'm in for a tough fight. It's a gamble to shoot -or- assault that squad no matter their configuration with ranged weapons or their Transport option, neither their cohesiveness (Combat Squads).

 

Versatility should be the by-word of TacSqds in general, however, the PF isn't always a no-brainer choice. Removing the PF from a squad demands higher Deployment proficiency from the Cpt in charge, which appeals to many gamers both new and advanced. In particular, if you want your squad to shoot exclusively, you don't really need a PF, do you? Support them with an HQ or Elite, and you can save some points for more guns! If you opt not to go for the PF, just remember that you need to provide support elsewhere in your list in a Tactical or Strategic sense (supporting Dread/excellent deployment)...

[rat of vengence]

Depends on the tasking of the squad. A squad I am planing to combat squad and go looking for tanks with a meltagun, I go with a powerfist and a combimelta. Droppodding? Powerfist and a combiflamer or combimelta. Any squad I am not planning to have fighting in CC I generally leave bare, and just go with the bolter. I would rather he shoot more at 24" than have one more attack with the pistol/CCW.

I used to use powerswords, but not any more. Just can't reliably wound with the buggers, and they can't handle big stuff.

 

RoV

[Race Bannon]

Power weapon and Melta-Bombs. You save 5 points, keep your initiative have one more dice on your side and can kill a vehicle more easily. If you are throwing your Sergeants into a situation that needs a PF then you are throwing away your squad.

 

Although I can understand "JIC", I'd rather keep my initiative. Your opponent will not get an armor save either way. The trick is if you feel hitting on a 2+ (about 99% of the time) and striking last (about 99.5% of the time) is worth 5 points. To me, it's not.

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Power weapon and Melta-Bombs. You save 5 points, keep your initiative have one more dice on your side and can kill a vehicle more easily. If you are throwing your Sergeants into a situation that needs a PF then you are throwing away your squad.

 

Although I can understand "JIC", I'd rather keep my initiative. Your opponent will not get an armor save either way. The trick is if you feel hitting on a 2+ (about 99% of the time) and striking last (about 99.5% of the time) is worth 5 points. To me, it's not.

 

And what does your power weapon/meltabombs Sergeant do against walkers, monstrous creatures, and things with T5 or higher? Squat, that's what.