Huron vs. Daemon Prince

[Daeghrefn]

Quick question for those who may be more familiar with this faction than myself - Given that you do not know who your opponent is going to be, would you rather have a daemon prince, or huron blackheart in a squad of CSM and rhino? If the prince, how would you equip it?

Thanks for the advice :)

[chillin]

I have had my DP shot dead so many times b4 he can get into hth, that I might consider huron. I play in a small gaming group and they know how deadly my WT DP is, so they unload on him. Sure you could say that, that means that more of my rinos/troops get in there, but having the leader/general of my army die every game does not set well with me. I usually use a lord now (I know it's not the most popular choice) b/c he can not be singled out for shooting. Huron looks good on paper, PW and PF with WT, and a hvy flamer, he should do well and be a good all arounder. But no wings :) . I have never tried him, but he sounds pretty good, I would definately give him a try, My whole army is pretty much made up of all arounders.

If I were to choose a DP I would go with wings and, MoTz, or MoN, or WT, (only 1 of the 3, I am pretty cheap when it comes to HQ, if you wanted to spend more, you could go w/ MoTz or MoN and WT.

But i would give Huron a try 1st.

[Dan The Deamon]

My personal experience is such.

 

Deamon prince with Nurgle, wings, and warptime has died in three of my games in 8 months. I don't know how many games i played total but it was about 6-8 a weekend. He is just a beast with T6. It takes something STR 10 to insta kill him, otherwise he has 4 wounds which like to go slow.

 

I played Huron once in a unit of Glory marines. He was insta killed before he had a chance to do anything. Granted i never played enough with him to find his groove, but it seemed like such a waste to watch him die so fast.

 

It really depends on what you need your HQ to perform. If you need a buff to one of your squads take huron. If your army is well built and your squads are self sufficient, your Hq can just run amok somewhere and nobody will miss him.

[Corpse.]

You can ensure that the powerfist your going up against isnt in base to base contact with your independent character when you charge/expect to be charged (keep him behind a few models if its to be charged). I have recently started to perfect it with making sure my IC consolodates around for the enemy assault phase when I charge to finish off the enemy unit. Or to take the charge, and have my squad reaction be my guide where I lay my IC into the enemy, either way I have control.

 

I advise going against taking a spare spot inside a rhino with CSM, you lose a meltagun/flamer that way. Have it be a more nasty CC unit, especially with an HQ. Possessed/Zerks/Plagues etc do the job fine. (Although I prefer a land raider with 9 of any one of those in there with him)

 

Prince works well in mecha, especially rhino heavy. He takes hits early for the vehicles. But if you're not to worried about it, then go with huron. He is after all the only way to get a warptimed heavy flamer in with your forces for a reasonable price.

[lord gunthar]

Dan

It takes something STR 10 to insta kill him

No it doesnt nothing can instant kill him as he has the eternal warrior special rule which direct from the rulebook says This model is immune to the instant death rule

[Dan The Deamon]

Word, i forgot.

 

All the more reason to love the DP!

[the jeske]

You can ensure that the powerfist your going up against isnt in base to base contact with your independent character when you charge/expect to be charged (keep him behind a few models if its to be charged).

but you do understand that this works only , if the fist guys is on one side of the enemy unit[and that should never happen]?If he is in the middle there is no way going around it.

[Sception]

In general the Daemon Prince is the stronger option. The best configurations for it always use Wings, and add to that:

 

1) Mark of Slaanesh and Lash of Submission - very strong, but not very friendly. Lash isn't all that overpowered in the current environment, but moving the other guy's models is rarely fun for the other guy, regardless.

 

2) Mark of Nurgle and Nurgle's Rot - an effective all rounder, with tools to fight anything (rot for light infantry, monsterous creature attacks for heavy infantry and vehicles).

 

3) Mark of Tzeentch and Warp Time - better inv. save and rerolls to hit and wound in close combat makes for a pretty powerful melee monster, especially against enemy characters.

 

4) Anything else. Seriously, as long as you don't forget wings you really can't go completely wrong with a Daemon Prince.

 

 

In general, the Daemon Prince is a strong and somewhat versatile unit. For really about the same points cost as your other HQs you get a model that can stand as its own unit - an extra movement element for you to work with and your opponent to worry about. Our other HQs, special characters included, are all somewhat less efficient for the points investment, and at the same time need to be attached to units to avoid suffering instant death to stray lascannon shots.

 

The thing is, most of our units work perfectly well without such upgrades. Chaos marines with a couple specials and a fistichamp are perfectly efficient on their own, and a threat to anything they might engage with. Adding characters doesn't really let them do anything they couldn't do before, and ime they usually do better with another unit of the same to fight alongside then a character in the ranks. Same with Cult Units. Actually, the situation is worse for generic chaos marines because adding a character prevents them from taking both a rhino and a second special weapon.

 

The Prince, on the other hand, is again a maneuver element of its own. You don't usually want to engage it alone, but then again few of your units like to do things by themselves. What you do have is a separate unit that can move on its own and that needs to be dealt with separately by the enemy.

 

 

All that said, while the Prince is generally better, our other HQ options aren't necessarily bad. Of the special characters, I do like Huron's versatility - with choice of +1 attack with p.wep or x2 Strength with fist he's got melee tools to fight both heavy infantry and light vehicles, and his heavy flamer lets him clear out some light infantry on the way in. Warp Time makes him an extra menace no matter what he's doing. So he's not a bad character. Since he's a short range, infantry hero you're going to want to put him in a transport, and since he's a non-immortal independent character he's going to need a unit to hang with. I like him a few ways:

 

1) In a Land Raider with Berserkers. If your willing to accept some mercenary cult units in your Red Corsair army then this is a decent configuration for him. It's sort of an all your eggs in one basket situation, but the charge is scary, and Huron really does add something to the unit with his heavy flamer and warp timed power attacks.

 

2) In a Rhino with Plague Marines. Plague Marines are just a good tough scoring unit, making them an excellent retinue choice. And they can have two specials and still escort a character in a rhino. Again, though, you do have to be willing to accept cult units in your Red Corsair army.

 

3) In a Rhino with Special Weapon Havocs. Four flamers jumping out of a rhino makes a mess of infantry. Four flamers jumping out of a rhino backed up by combi flamers on the champion and transport are overkill. Four flamers plus two combi flamers plus a warp-timed heavy flamer is just silly - but with that much fire even marines and nobs will be hurting. Huron's melee power doesn't hurt against the counterattack, either. Not scoring, though. And not fearless.

 

 

In general I don't recommend putting him with generic CSMs (can't have two specials and a transport) or Chosen (they have to pay for infiltrate, and hanging out in a transport with Huron makes that wasted points).

[minigun762]

We had a similar topic to this and my 2 cents there still apply.

The biggest drawback to either the Sorcerer or Lord is that they don't have Eternal Warrior, so one lucky S8 hit and you're gone and with a base 5++ save, its not that hard to sneaky one in.

 

For that reason, if I was to use a Sorcerer/Lord I'd probably keep them really cheap and semi-disposable.