SM scouts and Scout bikers

[BrotherWade]

Has anyone under 5th edition rules had any success of Scouts in there army? I used to play in 4th an almost all scout army (crimson fist) and had pretty good success with it. I am considering adding scouts back into my 5th edition marine army in the form of both scout bikes and regular scouts. Has anyone seriously had good results from scouts in games and what purpose did they use them for? I was planning on trying them out with a unit with bolters and a unit with Shotguns/CCW's with a scout bike squad as well. Rest of my army is some TH/SS terminators, two dreads, 2 tactical squads, bike squad, 2 predators, and a land speeder squad.

 

I was kinda wanting to do fluff with a scout squad mirroring a Tactical marine or bike marine squad. Has anyone tried this or has had some luck with this? Maybe outflanking?

[Commander Sasha]

Search for B&C member Greatcrusade08, he runs an all-scout army, and has written a series of excellent articles.

[greatcrusade08]

Thanks Sasha :lol:

 

linky

 

any questions feel free to pm me.

 

GC08

[greatcrusade08]

With scouts there are 3 main grades

1: stand alone scout force

2: mostly scouts with some other units mixed in

3: a unit or two of scouts in a list.

 

Each has its own merits, pros and cons.

 

the stand alone force is very good at low level points games, alot of people have compared scouts to the tac squad, which isnt a bad comparison to make.

The tac squad of course wins hands down, the 5th edition brought the tac squad free upgrades as a way to push infantry games which means compared to an equal number of scouts with equal weapons they come in at about the same cost

10 tac marines ML, flamer is 170

10 scouts ML combi-flamer is 160

 

another big lack for scouts is their anti armour capabilities, until you look more closely.

Scouts are very capable at killing vehicles, but have to do it up close rather than with lascannons and the like from the back of the battlefield, the scouts infiltrating and outflanking abilities goes a long way to achieving this, although it does require alot of practice/knowledge of the scouts playstyle.

As the points go up (1500+) scouts struggle to match most marine armies, this is because scouts do best in numbers, if you keep them cheap you can put a full 6 troops choices on the board at 1000 points. Once you start upgrading them to meet points limits they become less expendable which is a big problem for scouts.. they should be expendable!

My record with scouts is very good in a general games club environment, i have an almost 100% record (except against an eldar army) at my LGS.

I ran into problems when i took the army to the ultra-meets as i played more competative armies and players and they tend to fall down a little in this department. At 1750 points games i had to totally restructure my army to include two full ten man scout bike squads, which helped a little but still not competative enough. (i still won a few games in the competative matches but i didnt even reach 50% wins, which for me is a dissapointment).

 

the 3rd grade is where alot of people are at, they take a unit of snipers or scout bikers to add some flavour to thier lists, theres not much i can comment on, but later on ill discuss the best scout units and why.

 

The second grade is where the rainbow ends IMO, if you beat down the list leprachauns and get it right you can help yourself to alot of gold!

I have started using a 1st and tenth list and although im only 3 games in, those 3 games were complete massacres for my noobs.. im very impressed thus far but will have a much better learning curve in january with the next ultra-meet.

The biggest problem with stand alone forces is the basic troop choice the bolter scout, these boys occasionally have uses, but as a stand off troops choice they are not very good.

In a stand alone army you take them becuase you have already made the decision to limit to non PA, if i had the choice id always take tac marines over bolter scouts.

 

The best units to use are ccw scouts, scout bikers, land speeder storm teams and to an extent snipers although the last choice is very much personal preference.

 

ccw scouts are a real jack in the box unit, at 175 points with a fist and combi-flamer (best use IMO) they are far far cheaper than an assault squad, but have the same number of attacks!

Of course theres no real comparison to be made after that since they are totally different entities!

The best way to use them IME is as outflankers, a ten man squad wont get a first turn charge and the last thing you want is to infiltrate a 4+ save unit within rapid fire of your enemy, as outflankers anything within 12" of the table edge can be charged oin the turn they arrive keeping them safer from enemy shooting and guaranteeing you roll lots of cc dice :sick:

If you decide not to run with combi-weapons (some dont they are expensive for single shot weapons, however the flamer is the better value out of the three choices) then always put a shotgun on the fist armed sergeant, he wont get his +1A so you may aswell fire some more shots instead.

 

As for ccw/shotty mix, the 50/50 is the best all rounder, they maximise the ratio of both shooting and attacks, however if you know your enemy before you build your list just remember the following:

Equal or higher Initiative opponents means more shotties are needed, for lower initiative go for ccw's.

alos take into account that pistols have an AP of 5, against armour saves of 5+ the pistols may only get half the shots, but do a full third more wounds from those shots than the shotgunners do... its all about the balance and being prepared for every situation.

I myself generally use two shotgunners in my ten man units and they are always the first casulties pulled off once in assault, as they have done thier job and have outlived thier usefulness compared to the ccw scouts.

 

Scout bikers are a whole heap of awesome, ive heard some say they are rubbish but to be honest thats more likely becuase thier list doesnt suit thier particular strengths.. only a bad workman blames his tools after all!

with the higher movement and infiltrate/scout move they can get first turn charges, or can outflank should you not get first turn.

The grenade launchers are brilliant and i love putting down 6 templates on enemy units at close range, they can be very powerful aslong as the dice roll reasonably well, also at S6 most transports become easy game, especially considering the outflanking means youll be hitting rear/side armour most of the time.

 

Cluster mines are also very handy, well worth thier points even if they are not used. Simply being on the board in an unknown location makes your opponent very wary of entering terrain, the average roll is 7 S4 auto hits which can even damage armour 10 vehicles (it hits rear armour of everything inc dreads).

 

Land speeder storms are fast becoming my signature unit, there are many ways to use them and many combinations of vehicle weaponry to scout weaponry.

They are best used in tandem i.e heavy flamer and combi-flamer and since this combo works best as terrain clearing and ob grabbing ccws work best.

The MM, combi-melta and meltabombs combo is also a particular favourite of mine, the MM LSS once scored a monolith kill and once painted will be given a suitable name to reflect this (havent decided on a name yet though)

Again this unit can get first turn charges, my most successful firts turner was against the boards alloyslayer, and ive no doubt he hates me for keep bringing it up :devil:

I took the HF, combi-flamer and meltabombs (at 5 points they are brilliant) team, flew over to his deployment zone, dropped the scouts next to a vindicator, and the LSS flamed enemy snipers (with telion) who lost 30% of thier number and fell back off the board, the scouts then charged the vindy and blew it up with meltabombs.. very funny although i once destroyed a full one third of an ork army before his first turn by maxmising these units.. he was not impressed at all. (probably verging on chessey)

 

Snipers for me are great, in my 1st and tenth i use a couple of dreads and take a Motf to ensure i can also take 2 or 3 termy squads, they provide a very tough battle line to work from (ill go further in a minute).

The motf can bolster ruins so scouts with camo cloaks can get 2+ saves, very neat.. generally i take Telion as hes worth more than the rest of the squad combined in terms of usefulness and kills, i once scored two redning hits on a pimped out SM command squad.. thats a real kick in the nuts for my opponent, who now that i think of it was alloyslayer again (different game), poor lad suffers at the hands of my scouts!

 

Getting back to my 1st and tenth, the principle i use is a hardcore battle line of shooty termies and dreads, shooty termies are vastly more useful than assault terms IMO and can lay down the same fire as a tac squad from 24" away and are about the same cost, then factor in all those loverly power fists and its a no brainer.. i use termies as my troops choices in eseence and they work beautifully when combined with the sneaky scout tricks.

The main battle line advances firing from turn one, whilst the scouts either get first turn charges on juicy targets or come on in reserve and trap the enemy between the hammers of scout assault squads and bikes and the anvil of the terminators and dreads (also note the motf makes the dreads more durable and the 2+ save makes him a good companion to the termies.

 

hope this helps answer some questions on scouts, im more than happy to help give pointers on lists or tactical advice,

 

Gc08

[Meatman]

outflanking scout bikes with a powerfist is scarier then you might think, playing a fist player, his 3 man scout squad killed my 10 man tactical squad in 2 turns :S

 

Don't underestimate their toughness 5 and the 3 plus invulnerable save for moving more then 18"

[DarkGuard]

There's a player down at my LGS who uses an all Scouts army (pretty much). He normally lines up with about 4 5 man sniper squads with missile launcher, 1 5/6 man squad with bolters which outflanks and 1 10 man squad with bolters which also outflanks. Also in the army is a Chapter Master, Ironclad with HF/MG in Drop Pod with Deathwind and a Vindicator. All of his models are converted in one way or another, the sniper rifles are basically long-las', while the Vindicator is built from scratch.

 

Wonderful army to play against, and doesn't perform too badly on the battlefield. Normally has kill zones covered by his Scouts on the field and picks the right targets, results in a lot of close games.

[alloyslayer]

Again this unit can get first turn charges, my most successful firts turner was against the boards alloyslayer, and ive no doubt he hates me for keep bringing it up :)

I took the HF, combi-flamer and meltabombs (at 5 points they are brilliant) team, flew over to his deployment zone, dropped the scouts next to a vindicator, and the LSS flamed enemy snipers (with telion) who lost 30% of thier number and fell back off the board, the scouts then charged the vindy and blew it up with meltabombs..

 

yeah, thank's for reminding me mate :lol:

 

 

generally i take Telion as hes worth more than the rest of the squad combined in terms of usefulness and kills, i once scored two redning hits on a pimped out SM command squad.. thats a real kick in the nuts for my opponent, who now that i think of it was alloyslayer again (different game), poor lad suffers at the hands of my scouts!

 

 

 

Gc08

 

and for that one as well ;)