GK Heraldry

[Winterlight]

First off I must admit that my knowledge of GK fluff comes entirely from the DH codex and the first of the three books. Haven't got as far as the other two yet so apologies if this is explained somewhere. But to me this seems a rather large contradiction in the GW established fluff.

 

Grey Knight Justicars and those with Terminator Hons. are allowed to display personal heraldry? Check

ALL Grey Knights have there memories erased during the initiation process???

 

If I remember rightly Alaric says he has no memories of his past life at all. So how could any of them know their personal heraldry? Do they simply make up designs that they fancy? And if so doesn't that rather defeat the main element of heraldry with is traditional? Even if the Ordo/GMs allowed them to retain their familys heraldry and not their memories surely that would give them a link that could then allow them to look up the heraldry and be linked with their past?

 

For the time being I've refused to give any of my GKs heraldry because it seems a bizarre loophole. The heraldry element would surely make much more sense for the Black Templars.

[Uncle Mel]

personal heraldry are personal achievements as a grey knight. unlike squad or company specific honours and achievements.

 

Mel

[Winterlight]

Codex states

 

"The shoulder mounted shield on a Grey Knight's armour is used to display heraldry. Warriors clad in Terminator armour are entitled to wear their owen personal heraldry....

 

...typically the shield is divided in two with the left half containing the heraldry and the right half bear simple geometric forms representing his achievements, campaign markings and the such like"

 

So you're half right. Achievements and campaign markings go on one side, which implies that the other side is not for those things.... and so I ask what for exactly? The codex says heraldry which is essentially coat of arms i.e. family markings. Which makes no sense when you have no family

[Magnus Thane]

I always assumed it was a personal symbol bestowed upon them, a privilige as it were which makes each Knight of a certain rank stand out.

I never and still do not associate it with a traditional interpretation.

[- 7eAL -]

Codex states

 

"The shoulder mounted shield on a Grey Knight's armour is used to display heraldry. Warriors clad in Terminator armour are entitled to wear their owen personal heraldry....

 

...typically the shield is divided in two with the left half containing the heraldry and the right half bear simple geometric forms representing his achievements, campaign markings and the such like"

 

So you're half right. Achievements and campaign markings go on one side, which implies that the other side is not for those things.... and so I ask what for exactly? The codex says heraldry which is essentially coat of arms i.e. family markings. Which makes no sense when you have no family

Family markings in heraldry is only important where heraldry is inherited, and where many members of a family share a similar coats of arms distinguised by a system of cadency. Otherwise, the original coat of arms can only be used by the head of a family. Amongst the Grey Knights each Knight can be seen as the head of a family of one, and thus each Knight can be granted an individual coat of arms.

 

Additionally, if the Grey Knights follow the Continental systems of heraldry that allowed burgher arms rather than the British systems that only allowed noble arms, then they may develop coats of arms irrespective of relational ties. Each Knight is an individual in a number of senses, and thus each Knight can design his own coat of arms so long as he does not wrongfully take the arms of somebody else.

 

Alternatively, one might wish to show teaching traditions amongst the Grey Knights, and use the father-son system of cadency to represent teacher-student relationships instead. Each Knight can include the heraldry of his teachers, and can inherit the original heraldry when his teacher dies or retires from combat.

- Original arms would be worn primarily by Grand Masters and other high-ranking Knights who have outlived their teachers.

- Inherited arms with markings of cadency would be worn by students, with markings given by seniority.

- Divided fields would be worn by Captains and other high-ranking Knights who decided to blend the lessons of multiple teachers, rather than inherit the original arms.

- Divided fields inherited with markings of cadency would be worn by students of these Knights, with markings given by seniority.

- New plain arms would be worn by experienced Knights who have developed their own teachings and earned the right to break from previous tradition.

 

Only amongst the nobility and amongst the British systems of heraldry are coats of arms restricted and enforce by particular rules.

[Brother Tyler]

I think we're thinking way too deeply about this. Trying to apply our modern day heraldic conventions to the science-fantasy game universe only complicates things unnecessarily, and perhaps mistakenly. The battle-brothers of the Grey Knights are drawn from throughout the galaxy, from a multitude of worlds without any consistent heraldic conventions to apply modern day rules.

 

Uncle Mel summed it up as correctly as possible in his first reply.

 

The personal heraldry of a Grey Knight is based on his experiences and achievements as a Grey Knight.

 

It's fine for members that desire to utilize modern heraldic conventions and designs to do so, but it would be a grave mistake to try to assert that this is something that is actually followed by the Chapter from an official standpoint since there's no background material to back it up.

[hendybadger]

Do they HAVE to have heraldry?

Can they choose not to display the shields, and only have it on the right pad?

[Uncle Mel]

It is known for space marines to obscure chapter/squad markings in certain missions, I don't know whether the same holds true for GK. They just leave nobody alive to tell about them afterwards

[hendybadger]

So it wouldnt matter if I didnt put them on then

[Magnus Thane]

GK as far as I know would always wear their Heraldry. Symbols of virtue, honor etc are things that are part of their very identity. And stealth is hardly something they do. But stick to the Codex motives or the likes, you can't go that wrong with the heraldry if you keep things simple.

[hendybadger]

I may have to start looking into creating some other =][= force that doesnt use it.

 

But, what have people come up with for their own GKs?

[Devon M]

Look on the cover of the GK book. The termies shields are half sword, and then half skull. One half could be the Justicar's markings, so the whole squad has the same, then the other half is the individuals, based on something that happened during his recruiting trials or his battles.

[- 7eAL -]

Do they HAVE to have heraldry?

Can they choose not to display the shields, and only have it on the right pad?

Nobody is going to come knocking at your door to tell you that your Grey Knights absolutely need to have heraldry, or that it can only be on the right pauldron. Heraldry and grey armour are not necessary for WYSIWYG on Grey Knights models.

[hendybadger]

Very good point

[Magnus Thane]

I'm currently reading the Grey Knights omnibus. There the leader of the Terminator squad has a fully personalized shield. One half was shining black to represent space and the other half showed a star for each boarding action he had undertaken if memory serves me.

[Devon M]

on the inside back cover of the DH codex it says that PAGK where the heraldry of their squad(maybe the justicar's) and that termies have their own heraldry, one side a design and the other half geometric shapes and patterns that represent achievements, such as Killing Frenzy or Fear the Pink Mist