Marshal Wilhelm Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Greetings Brethren, I was wondering about how legions went about fighting and what that would look like on the table-top. I think all the eventual Traitors are obvious; Death Guard: Anvil with quality Tacticals & Terms to outlast foe. Night Lords: Terrorists, akin to Ravenguard but more....nasty. :) World Eaters: BA/BT route 1 assault. Iron Warriors: Siege wrecking crew. Bombardment then ferocious assault. Alpha Legion: Covert ops leading to annihilation due to expertly placed and timed attacks. Luna Wolves: Emphasis on Drop Pod or equivalent, but with ability to do all. UMesque. Emperors Children, Word Bearers and Thousand Sons. What characterised them in strategy (broad picture) and tactics (on the table-top) How did the Perfection of EC manifest itself? How did the Zealotry of WB manifest itself? How did the Magic of TS manifest itself? Where these three much like UM with a slight twist or was there more divergence than this? I use Ultramarines as the template as they are Jack of all trades and Masters of none. Something supported by fluff & HH books is what I am after. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
traitor_dice Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The EC used plans and formations that they had practiced "to the point of perfection." to them war was more like some kind of dance or performance, or at least thats the impression i got reading Fulgrim. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2184953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 shouldn't 1k sons be an obvious one? librarians..... lots of 'em. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2184989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 shouldn't 1k sons be an obvious one? librarians..... lots of 'em. I understand they had many Librarians. Did they fight just like any other Legion with a bit of extra supernatural pyrotechnics thrown in or was it more than librarians being living heavy weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2184990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrum proeliator Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Think how the 1k sons are today. Replace Rubrics with normal marines and sorcerors with librarians and you get a shrewd idea. EC believe that in war is art. Perfection is the order of the day (slaanesh). I don't know why, but mordian iron guard spring to mind. Ranks of highly disciplined soldiers (marines) in brightly coloured, immaculate, armour. Word bearers had chaplains, but I think as they are the anti to the ultramarines, think a well rounded force with everything covered. I haven't looked into the history of the word bearers as much as other legions, so I'm not so sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skritz Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 If I recall (but I could be wrong, since I have never read any HH books) Word Bearers zerg rush (pardon the Starcraft refference) with mobs of fanatical followers. Actual Marine were rare in combats and where mostly used as elite units and commanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaemonPrinceDargor Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The EC used plans and formations that they had practiced "to the point of perfection." to them war was more like some kind of dance or performance, or at least thats the impression i got reading Fulgrim. This,pretty much.I use standard codex SM for my Emperor's Children,the huge variety of units but especially the combat squads rule helps with the "plans and formations" and "dance performance" parts.Imagine a squad broken into 2 combat squads leap frogging for example,one providing cover and the other closing with the enemy and then vice versa. Cheers! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frijj Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 the WB would have fought like any other legion. Within their social structure there was more religion than others. TS would have fought with psychic powers being their linche pin. Confusing the enemy, more units through port holes and using psychics to aurgments units. The EC fought similar to most other legions. except they would have done it better, more flawless. For instance is a straight out assault is needed they would do it, get up close and personal. But their personal fighting style is the main thing that defined them. A WE would smash through someones guard, and EC would slide through it. WE blunt force, lots of guys all trying to hit the enemy. Though they did use heavy weapons and tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185103 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 According to their I.A. article, the Thousand Sons preferred to fight at long range, utilising their battle brethren to lay down withering hails of gun fire whilst their librarian-sorcerers mis-directed and scattered the enemy via use of their psychic powers. Their modus operandi was one of feint, misdirection and subversion, which is one of the many reasons that legions such as the Space Wolves (and, I think you can safely infer, the World Eaters) had a bone to pick with them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 According to their I.A. article, the Thousand Sons preferred to fight at long range, utilising their battle brethren to lay down withering hails of gun fire whilst their librarian-sorcerers mis-directed and scattered the enemy via use of their psychic powers. Their modus operandi was one of feint, misdirection and subversion, which is one of the many reasons that legions such as the Space Wolves (and, I think you can safely infer, the World Eaters) had a bone to pick with them. I know things don't translate perfectly but could that mean the TS fight with a style more like the Tau than like UM? I have looked a BoLS 4th ed. Great Crusade codex and they reckoned the TS would only take 1 FAST ATTACK. That cuts down on Assault and Vanguard squads. If you wanted to emphasise the long range part.... and then take 2 Epistolaries for HQ.... What do you think? *The Space Wolves can be a bit of a dog like that or should I say they are very dogged or should I say they are like a dog with a bone :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2185590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Masariel Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 for 1k sons you should use space wolves.. I know..it's blasphemy..but you could field njal + 3 librarians (500+ points) with 2/3 grey hunters units as 9 bodyguard on rhino..1 special weapon + sergeant with kopesh.. :) and 2 units of longfangs with lots of multi tracker heavy weapons.. °___° emperor's children in fulgrim novel had some kind of shotting formation that reminded me of high helves rank fighting..they also loved and mastered CC and had the pleasure tu show their prowess at any chance.. that's fine with chaos codex to me..lucius and a lord (as tarvitz or chaplain charmosian) leading mono noise marines army with CC tooled up sergeants..3 shots when still is equivalent of formation..bullet shower on the foe..+1 initiative is mastery in cc.. nothing to say bout hateful word beares..beside you shouldn't do them! -___- jokes aside..I'd use codex chaos for them..with no cults at all and lots of deamons proxing fanatic cultists.. my 2 cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2189535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce11 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 for 1k sons you should use space wolves..I know..it's blasphemy..but you could field njal + 3 librarians (500+ points) with 2/3 grey hunters units as 9 bodyguard on rhino..1 special weapon + sergeant with kopesh.. :) and 2 units of longfangs with lots of multi tracker heavy weapons.. °___° I unfortunately have to agree. A less heretical approach to these heretics is by proxying terminator librarians as obliterators and just imagining their proficient psychic powers layering down a withering hail of psychic power that strangely enough has the effect of plasma canons. Match the obliterators with some sorcerers and regular unmarked CSM and you have a close TS Legion. I collected this and it is really fun to play. I try to keep out of CC as much as possible just to feel fluffy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2205585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Herald of Desolation Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 According to Fulgrim, the EC were above average Astartes marksmen. Where your standard Smurf would put two, maybe three rounds into a target, the EC put one. As previously stated, they practiced combat manuevers to the point of perfection. In addition to their combat training, Fulgrim insisted his Astartes knew of art as well as war. Many were painters, poets, sculpters, philosophers, etc in addition to being perfect killing machines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2205647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubermensch Commander Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Well, first and foremost, all the Legions maintained the ability to fight in all arenas of warfare. They all had standardized equipment, so each and every Legion maintained Legion era equivalents to assault squads, armored formations, devastator squads, etc. No army on that scale has success by doing one thing and one thing alone. With that out of the way, lets get down to how they would like to fight. Emperor's Children-Much like the Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Iron Hands, and Sons of Horus they attempted to excel at ALL fields of combat. They did have individuals and squads who excelled at their one thing, such as the freudian field day of Lucious and his obsession with mastering his "sword" and hand to hand combat, but overall they remained tactically varied. Where the Emp Children differed in the execution of war, is that they strove to look good doing it! :P Probably the largest difference I can think of is in the marines personal life. They were expected to appreciate art, poetry, etc. To lost touch with human culture, is to lose touch with Humanity, the very thing they are supposed to protect. .....yeah that didn't go so hot at the end. :P Word Bearers- As with the Emperor's Children, they fought in a balanced fashion, with a penchant for close quarters combat and stubbornly continuing an assault in the face of heavy losses. Fanatical, in a manner different from the other Legions. Their real difference came AFTER they conquered a planet. Where the Ultramarines set up superb administration, to ensure steady supply lines were maintained and they didn't have to worry about "omigosh fall back point rebelled", the Word Bearers remained on planet to convert the populace to the worship of the Emperor. This meant their conquest slowed compared to other Legions, so much so that the Emperor actually chastised Lorgar for his actions. *SEEKING CONFIRMATION* I don't think they maintained any religious militant auxiliaries until after their fall to Chaos, but I am not sure on that part. So Word Bearers fought like a balanced Legion, just a bit more in your face. Then they would sermonize the survivors of the assault. Envy the dead! :) T-sons: Dammeron summed it up. Not much for assaults, predict the enemies moves, hit and fade, and all of that augmented by sorcery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184844-emperors-children-word-bearers-thousand-sons/#findComment-2206061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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