Recent Win - is JWW too powerful?

[Bartali]

Sorry, but if you were playing against me "As a psychic shooting attack trace a line, models touching the line take a test or are removed" means you need los to an initial target as per psychic shooting attacks on pg50 of the rulebook,

[antique_nova]

but we aren't declaring a target? Jottw doesn't need you to declare a target. if you don't declare a target thenyou don't need LOS, and therefor you don't claim to be using a shooting attack.

Am i right? or wrong?

thanks

antique_nova

[stinkenheim]

lets not get into the third or fourth debate about whether JOWW requires LOS as peoplea re reading the term 'as a psychic shooting attack' differently. some say it merely counts as a firing a weapon (so no other shooting attackcan be made) others, and i include myself in this, read it as it IS a psychic shooting attack and as such requires LOS (as it is not G range or specificlaly overrides the LOS rule) and a targetted model (otherwise people are saying you can stand out of sight firing crevases off in random directions and then the unit the RP is in can shoot and assault a completely different target, seems more than slightly hopeful to me).

 

a quick search will reveal a more in depth arguement with more rules quotes and page numbers than you can shake a stick at, but basically you don't need to go past page one of them as they go round and round in cirlces with noone ever coming to agreement.

 

back on topic, as to whether the power is overpowered, hell no. its short range, can potentially be potent but against the majority of things you would be better off with living lightning as it is far more versatile and you can keep your rune priest out of danger that way.

against necrons, nidzilla, orks and tau then yeah its gonna do good. against guard it'll do pretty well. against marines not too well and against eldar it is mostly pointless as the majority have I5+ (i think anything but gaurdians and rangers)

[slmellon]

the line can go through impassable terrain so why couldnt a RP stand behind a cliff and use JoTWW, after all he's a pysker, he doesnt need even need eyes to see.

[Xtee]

What happens if you break up unit coherency?

[JamesI]

The unit will just have to move to regain coherency next turn. Only really hurts units that want to sit still and shoot heavies.

[Skalver]

I've already chosen my powers and written them into my list to make it fairer on the opponent and choose living lightning and tempest's wrath so I don't need to fear cries of cheese (much!)

 

Umm, the rules clearly state (first paragraph of page 37) that you have to choose your psychic powers when you choose your army. If a SW player showed up without them written on his army list and wanted to choose them just before the battle after seeing my force I would tell him he was out of luck and not let him take any psychic powers at all.

 

In friendly games you can let that slide but in competitive games I will always assume the opponent knows his army list well enough that "forgetting" something like that is just a ploy to glean an unfair advantage and I would never let them away with that.

 

What is the page number for the rules on denying your opponent his psychic powers? :D The SW rulebook tells you when to choose your powers, but does not cover any penalty. And what is to keep your opponent from printing up multiple lists with different powers?

 

Well I would always offer him the option of being disqualified for trying to field an illegal army if he preferred. If the rules say you must do something when you choose your army and you don't do it then the army list is illegal, plain and simple.

 

The rules state no penalty for taking 4 fast attack choices in a standard force either, that doesn't mean you have to let someone get away with doing so. Would you let someone get away with writing "Wolf Lord or a Wolf Priest - 100 pts" on their army list and choose before the game starts? How about if the list said "Long Fangs with four heavy weapons - 120 pts"? What is the difference between writing "Wolf Lord with two pieces of wargear - 140 points" and "Rune Priest with two psychic powers - 100 points"? If you are going to let your opponent pick and choose some parts of his army at the last minute then why not go the whole hog and let him just turn up with "1750 pts of Space Wolves" written on a piece of paper and pick the lot there and then :).

 

Your multiple army lists thing is irrelevant. Just because someone can cheat to glean an advantage does not make that advantage legal. If he does then either he will get away with it or he will get caught. The fact that he might be able to pull it off does not mean it should be made legal.

[Brother Amarel]

if you go by the theory that no sentence should be made frivolous or redundant through interpretation, then Murderous Hurricane and Living lightning are both Psychic shooting attacks, Fury of the Wolf Spirits is used as a shooting attack, and proceeds to follow the rules like it is actually a psychic shooting attack. Finally, Thunderclap and Jaws of the World Wolf are used as shooting attacks, but they do not act like shooting attacks.

Uh-huh. If you have to bend the English language to within a fraction of its breaking point to explain why a rule works the way that you want it to, then you're probably playing it wrong.

 

But, stinkenheim is right, this has been covered repeatedly and won't be properly resolved until a FAQ is released.

[Oldenhaller]

The FAQ discussion on the LoS issue can be found here with links to the longest of the original discussions.

 

Regarding if it's too powerful or not, on paper it looks like it can be dangerous because it can snipe and opponents fear loosing key models. On dice it doesn't lok too scary as mentioned loosing 2-3 troopers a turn isn't that bad. What I think is the kicker is that people have seen massive losses to it (I've seen ghazghul, azrael, hive tyrants, zoats, wraithlords and the rest fall down that hole...there's lots of cheering) which players do take hard. It's these losses which I think illicits the cry of "cheese!"

 

~O