Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 So I am wondering what are some of the cheese spacewolf lists that are being used.. We have one spacewolf player in our upcoming tourny and I am wondering what I should expect to see. The guy is a blaintant power gamer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkKnightCuron Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Probably that 'Jaws of the World Wolf' Psychic Power, Njal Stormcaller, and Thunderwolf Cavalry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Jaws is really not as uber as it sounds against CSM.. I played one match against the guy and he was using it.. Turn one he wasnt in range as he hid with retinue inside of his razorback.. Turn two.... Obliterators and Terminators took care of that real quick.. Tell me about the Cavalry lists.. obvious 12 inch charge.. What other benefits do they have that it is considered cheese? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thunderwolf Cavalry are rending, can be equipped with all sorts of wargear, are toughness 5 base, so you need a demolisher cannon to instakill them, 4 attacks for fifty points plus upgrades. I don't really know what to regard as cheese. I like living lightning for popping transports but I'm no good at discovering broken units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
avatar8481 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't understand your issue. It's in the Codex and legal, so how can it be cheesy? It's not as though a player that brings 'hard' lists isn't playing the same game as you (in fact in a tournament it could be argued he's playing the 'right' game and your 'un-cheesy' list is out of place). Though I tend to think that cries of cheese are BS, they focus on Thunderwolf Cav and JTWW. JTWW only gets a bad wrap because on paper it seems so powerful, when in reality it isn't that bad (for the reasons above, range, fragile user and limited utility against everything but tyranids). Thunderwolf Cav aren't even really that bad, given that they're so expensive you're going to be very limited by taking them in everything but the largest games. It's like taking assault terminators, it cripples your options for the rest of your list b/c they're so expensive. Also, speaking from personal experience, they're just as susceptible to torrent of fire as any other marine unit, and while they can play some wound allocation shenanigans like nob bikers they still only have a 3+ (admitted T5) save. If by 'cheese' you intend to say "units that are undercosted relative to their power, and so especially good to take" then I'd have to suggest you look out for Iron Priests. 155 points buys you 2 wound 3+ save with a Thunderhammer on a Thunderwolf with the power fist arm and 4 cyberwolves (each an ablative wound with 3 base attacks at S4) if you have Saga of Wolfkin in your army (and you should if you're taking this build) then they're all I5. They're cavalry units with effectively 6 wounds and 20 attacks on the charge for 155 points, a super deal in any codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Cheese? You cry cheese? What about "Gift of Chaos"? - nothing better than a T-Son 'sergeant' turning your 250point wolf lord into a chaos spawn. ;) Besides...for 10 years we have the most expensive Fast Attack Assault Marines and one Psychic Power for example. But we still owned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 That is pretty amazing.. When I say cheese.... I mean something like this Daemon Prince Mark of Slanesh Lash Wings Daemon prince Mark of Slanesh lash Wings obliterator x3 vindicator vindicator add 2 troops options for 150 pts total. All of that costs under 800 pts.. and can destroy pretty much anything. With initiative 6 the daemon princes are not a likely target for maw.. That list would CRUSH... Obviously there are a few counters to it but often unless planned for this list it can crush you and I think it is pretty cheese filled. its not very balanced and its not FUN.. I play these games to play for fun. On the other side you have players who exploit typo and intentions to make things happen in the game that are an oversight on GW side. I am just wondering if space wolves have any armies that are often unbeatable unless planned for... IG air cav is another list that is INSANE. Unless planned for it can really cause some hurting. P.S. who is crying cheese.. I am ASKING if there even is any in the new codex... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't think there's been enough time to discover any such list if it does exist... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I take your point Chaos Scum, ;) I would look for some things like this: JotWW obviously. Thunder Wolf Calvary (two or three packs of) in the same unit as Ragnar. If Ragnar and the TWC hit your lines and Ragnar howls, the TWC (if they're withing 12" of Ragnar) are going to get Furious Charge that turn. I5, S6 attacks. Arjac Rockfist gets to re-roll his hits against your DPs at strength 10. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 If i see ragnar on the table you can bet your ass he wont be there the end of turn 2 =) I read the new rules and being a former spacewolf player prior to the new codex and he is sickening. Expensive but just sick.. I doubt i will see him in the 1250 games we are playing.. Maybe in a 1400 game or better. So the wolves sound like they are the guys to be concerned with.. Good to know.. Thank you wolves for your input.. I will be sure to be gentle against this player.. Its no offence against wolves more against the player... he is the kind of guy who leaves his chooser of slain in play even after the rune priest has been killed and use its benefits throughout the game and then after the game is over and I look at the rules for it and see its wargear....... I was just as pissed as you guys were when i saw in the new chaos codex Skyrar's Darkwolves... What a load of garbage that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186179 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Skyrar's Darkwolves... What a load of garbage that is. Hehe! And don't go too easy, he might be a pup like us but if he's insistent on playing with uber competitive lists then give him a run for his money, after all if he's trying to make his army as killy as possible I almost feel you would be doing him a disservice not giving him a good fight. B) And I've got no problem with people coming to the Fang for guidance against the Wolves, it puts it more down to the tactics at hand and the luck, as opposed to springing nasty things upon the opponent. I think against cavalry the good old Vindicator might be a good bet, large blast, no save and causing instant death, kill two of them and you've almost made your points back, thats without upgrades on the cavalry. Of course he could run with something different... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I doubt he will run cav... He is just a power gamer that "forgets" rules.. He insisted that tank shock was based on initiative and not leadership. Each time I attempted to tank shock his troops off the objective. As I said before. I killed his rune priest turn 2 and his chooser of the slain was still on the board.. I would have called him on it if I had read the new codex prior to facing him. However in a setting that we are playing in.. One would think he would know his army better and know that it could not be. I am not the type to bring it up to him now but we have another match he and I next week and I plan on bringing the pain. Thanks again for all the help guys! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 so this guy isn't really a power gamer, just a cheat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeddon Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 so this guy isn't really a power gamer, just a cheat? No question mark required, from what Requiemnex is saying this guy is a cheat. Either that or he's disabled in some non-physical way :confused: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I dont know if he is a cheater. I would say that some of his behaviors are questionable. Either way.. We have a game coming up... 9 obliterators should silence him.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 JOTWW is overated but be wary :D thunderwolfs are v. expensive so i doubt they will be taken your right characters are expensive for that size game but arjac? and well equiped HQ's are definate watchables bloodclaws may seem help less but 4 attacks on the charge will count against almost anything same with fenrisian wolves with fleet they have a 24" attack range with 3 on the charge with players like this just rememner what they say, if the contradict themselves jump on it force that pompous fool to accept he is wrong or cheating Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Problem is I run a support mech rush list for chaos (for the most part) generally by 2nd turn there is no metal on the table. Oblits and termicide smash tanks and then clean up troops that come out. Daemon prince with Mark of Nurgle / Wings / Warptime. Talkin 12 inch move +6 inch charge on a S6 T6 A5 I5 re-rolling hits and wounds.. Although a bit more expensive I am thinking about taking a Tzeench Daemon prince with Warp time and winds of chaos.. Flamer template S6 AP2 re-roll wounds... Hit disembarking or blown up transported troops. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligncomedy Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 JOTWW is overated but be wary :Dthunderwolfs are v. expensive so i doubt they will be taken your right characters are expensive for that size game but arjac? and well equiped HQ's are definate watchables bloodclaws may seem help less but 4 attacks on the charge will count against almost anything same with fenrisian wolves with fleet they have a 24" attack range with 3 on the charge with players like this just rememner what they say, if the contradict themselves jump on it force that pompous fool to accept he is wrong or cheating I agree on JOTWW. But slightly disagree on thunderwolves. I think they have the chance of becoming the next Nob Bikers list. I believe they can absorb something like 13 wounds before you remove one? Iono haven't looked at the codex for a while. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhunter77 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If you are taking demons be careful of some of the phsyic powers Can't remember the name or find my codex, but theres one that causes all deep strikers to take difficult and dangerous terrain tests for a whole turn. Also if he takes Logan Grimnar he can count Wolfguard as troops so he could field a Wolfwing "Logans Heros" army. Although it hurts to help a traitor player it hurts more to think of a wolf acting without honour. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never run daemons.. Pointless for chaos to do so with current codex sadly. The deepstrike thing is interesting.. Although everything I deepstrike has a 2+ save against wounds.. It could still not go well for me. Terminators I welcome.. often people rely on them and fortunetly chaos can put out enough plasma to make short work of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 there is absolutlly nothing in the sw dex that could be see as cheez . Wcav is a good counter unit ,without a legal unit for them it is easy to build them in a such a way they could hide behind rhinos[or at least LR] . they are very useful second wave or mop up unit in any LR rush build . yes GH are cheaper then csm and yes SW do have more special rules/special characters[that work]/psychic power , but then again their dex wasnt made by Thorpe. Jaw is disliked only because it kicks builds and armies that already have it up hill in 5th ed [nids , necron and oddly IG troop spam lists] , normal meq or eldar/tau ingore it because they either are high I, jump infantry or mecha based. ah and if you think that lashx2 +2 vindicators and 2 naked troops are a cheez build your enviroment must be very different from what is played around the world. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Necrons took a hard hit in 5th ed, especially with the wording of how CC works when you loose and that it seems to deny WBB. Not to mention auto-glance cant destroy anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Are you kidding me? I live in Vermont of the USA! I play warhammer with Cows, Pine Trees, and bottles of maple syrup. Every now and again a block of cheese rolls boy throwing up its cabbot signs. Everyone plays for fun in the shop I play in.. However there are a few outside players who are regular tournament players. They use the lists that you frequently see in Tourny play... They dont even live anywhere near us but saw a "For Fun" campaign.. They turned it into a campaign where you have to use tourny style lists.. I have used a lash list ONCE because i think it is just insane.. It was insane.. I used it against tau.. poor guy never saw what was coming.. After that I left it alone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnars Claw Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Don't thunderwolf cav get 5 attacks as they are armed with 2 ccw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Don't thunderwolf cav get 5 attacks as they are armed with 2 ccw? 4 base +1 for CCW and a pistol +1 for charging So a potential 6 attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184930-cheese-and-spacewolves/#findComment-2186730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.