Drop Pod deployment questions

[Commander Sasha]

What happens if you land on the top floor of a multistorey building? Or a solid building with a flat roof that you have agreed is scaleable?

[Frosty the Pyro]

What happens if you land on the top floor of a multistorey building? Or a solid building with a flat roof that you have agreed is scaleable?

 

 

If it is a BUILDING with a roof you can be on, the its is not impassable terain and you land there, just as if it was a hill or sme such. If its a RUIN (which is the only thing you can have be truely multistory) then you land on the bottom floor as per deap strike rules.

[Marshal Serion]

I rather prefer INAT's response to this issue.

 

Basically to paraphrase, if the doors don't open, pretend you can see through the model as if they were open.

 

2" is from the hull, not the tips of the door.

 

 

In essence, pretending the doors are completely removed from the model in all circumstances is the easiest way to handle it.

[Grey Mage]

Inats known for making rules changes- again I ask, can I pretend the hatches on you rhino arent there?

[rat of vengence]

Rhinos have no rule specifying that the hatches must be opened; the drop pod does.

 

RoV

[Marshal Serion]

Inats known for making rules changes- again I ask, can I pretend the hatches on you rhino arent there?

 

 

You can pretend they aren't there, sure. I'll still get a cover save.

[Freakiq]

Rhinos have no rule specifying that the hatches must be opened; the drop pod does.

 

RoV

 

Nothing in the drop pods rules says the hatches have to be opened.

 

There's a sentence saying that the hatches are blown but that is most likely fluff since it does not tell ME to blow the hatches.

 

Also, 40k doesn't have rules for using pyrotechnics in your models.

[rat of vengence]

Rhinos have no rule specifying that the hatches must be opened; the drop pod does.

 

RoV

 

Nothing in the drop pods rules says the hatches have to be opened.

 

There's a sentence saying that the hatches are blown but that is most likely fluff since it does not tell ME to blow the hatches.

Oh. That sentence. The one telling us that on landing the hatches are blown. So you have decided it is fluff based on what? That it uses a bit of descriptive language, like 3/4 of the codex? And yes, if you use a drop pod it is telling YOU to blow the hatches.

Also, 40k doesn't have rules for using pyrotechnics in your models.

Maybe they thought it was a simple enough concept they didn't have to explain it using little words ^_^ I find it amusing that people who don't like this rule take 'blown' literally, yet do you do this with demolisher cannons? I think not... :P

 

RoV

[Freakiq]

I find it amusing that people who don't like this rule take 'blown' literally, yet do you do this with demolisher cannons? I think not...

 

The Descriptive part that says a demolisher cannon blows stuff up is fluff, its weapon characteristics line tells us what is does in the game.

 

The same should be applied to the drop pod, any references to blowing stuff up is fluff.

[drumogedon]

From my point of view (a 19 year old who has been playing for 8 years with no actual tournament exp but a lot of gaming at my three local GWs) I'd say that the easiest thing to do is to PRETEND that the doors are down just as I pretend my rhino doors open and my land raider hatch opens. Yes, its nice to be the person playing against the drop pod army and have them drop right next to you and think that because the hatches literally cant be lowered onto your models that they have to saty up and that the marines on the other side cant see you to choot you from LoS issues. That would be a ludicrous thought, however, since the doors to vehicles arent actually used for anything (Most importantly measuring distances - where instead the hull is used). For this reason I'd say its safe to pretend they are dropped even if they cant/are glued or whatever.

[rat of vengence]

From my point of view (a 19 year old who has been playing for 8 years with no actual tournament exp but a lot of gaming at my three local GWs) I'd say that the easiest thing to do is to PRETEND that the doors are down just as I pretend my rhino doors open and my land raider hatch opens. Yes, its nice to be the person playing against the drop pod army and have them drop right next to you and think that because the hatches literally cant be lowered onto your models that they have to saty up and that the marines on the other side cant see you to choot you from LoS issues. That would be a ludicrous thought, however, since the doors to vehicles arent actually used for anything (Most importantly measuring distances - where instead the hull is used). For this reason I'd say its safe to pretend they are dropped even if they cant/are glued or whatever.

What you say makes perfect sense, unfortunately some people want to hide their irobclad or sternguard behind the drop pod, and don't want anyone to be able to shoot them. This is why they are disregarding part of the rule; it is inconvenient.

 

RoV

[thade]

Alright, time to play devil's advocate as it were.

 

PART 1: THE RAW/LOS ISSUE

 

The rule states: "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game....Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped."

 

Usually in the rules when something relevant to gameplay (even if it's rooted in fluff) is stated, it's followed by the things it's relevant to, in order to elucidate what it means. So we can break this into parts, via RAW

 

Once landed, the hatches are blown = all passengers must immediately disembark, none can embark again.

No longer a sealed environment = counts as being open-topped (i.e. +1 on the vehicle damage table versus this target)

 

Neither of these rules indicate that the Drop Pod becomes see-thru or area terrain; it's a vehicle and in game terms seems to be a solid object. This really boils down to whether or not there is a rules-wise mandate on how to model the Drop Pod.

 

PART 2: THE MODELING/LOS ISSUE

 

The way I see it, we really have two cases...

 

Case 1: The hatches are blown. Let's say that we're a player that is a super modeler and the hatches fall out as ramps as the model is built, and you can in fact see past the chairs to trace to the other side of the vehicle. So the first weird thing is that it's not a terrain piece (unless it's rendered a wreck by bad luck or shooting), it's a unit...so if you can trace LOS through it to see a unit behind it, then it gets a 4+ cover save per the BRB. More specifically, if a unit receives 50% or better LOS cover from a shooting unit, it gets a cover save.

 

Case 2a: Now, let's say that we have a player who's an extremely talented modeler and they custom-tailor the insides such that there are wires and cables and all sorts of awesome hanging all over the place above the harnesses. Now the hatches are down - blown - and you can't see through it at all. So if you can 100% hide a unit behind it (such as a dreadnought), you can't trace LOS through to shoot it.

 

Case 2b: Finally, let's say we have a player who doesn't really enjoy the modeling or doesn't much care about it...they dig the rules and the game itself, so they glue the doors shut and put it on the table, spray painted with just enough detail work to make the painting requirement. Just like part (a) of this second case, you can't trace LOS through at all to see the Dreadnought.

 

Most tournaments allow conversions so long as they are mostly built of GW parts, use the proper base, fit the proper dimensions, and can't be confused as being anything else. Nothing in the rules says you HAVE to model your Drop Pod such that the doors come down. (I've certainly never heard of a tournie tourning someone away for gluing their doors shut, have you?)

 

So in our two cases, one modeler would allow true LOS to be traced through his pod, while another would not (as it's all closed up inside). Frankly, this thing did come out of orbit, so after it slammed into the ground (like a meteor) there would be a lot of airborne debris and smoke...VERY hard to trace LOS through, no? :lol: There are no rules for that either, of course.

 

I think we've found a situation where true LOS causes more problems than good, and certainly a reason to either get fancy with plasticard and green stuff inside...or just to glue the hatches shut. Short of a house rule I'm not sure where to settle.

[Grey Mage]

From my point of view (a 19 year old who has been playing for 8 years with no actual tournament exp but a lot of gaming at my three local GWs) I'd say that the easiest thing to do is to PRETEND that the doors are down just as I pretend my rhino doors open and my land raider hatch opens. Yes, its nice to be the person playing against the drop pod army and have them drop right next to you and think that because the hatches literally cant be lowered onto your models that they have to saty up and that the marines on the other side cant see you to choot you from LoS issues. That would be a ludicrous thought, however, since the doors to vehicles arent actually used for anything (Most importantly measuring distances - where instead the hull is used). For this reason I'd say its safe to pretend they are dropped even if they cant/are glued or whatever.

What you say makes perfect sense, unfortunately some people want to hide their irobclad or sternguard behind the drop pod, and don't want anyone to be able to shoot them. This is why they are disregarding part of the rule; it is inconvenient.

 

RoV

No, trust me... if it was just a matter of inconvenience Id have dropped this ages ago just to be rid of the repetitive arguments.

 

Its about fairness- why should a DP be less availed to the rules of LOS than anything else? And why should they have to move parts that no other model has to have moved?

 

Furthermore, why should I have to take anothers idea of what a rule implies, but does not state, if my own reading disagrees with that? Because that is all your reading does RoV, is states what you feel the sentence implies. My interpretation is just as legitimate- that the idea of hatches being blown is an explanation for why it is no longer a sealed enviroment and thus opentopped.

 

To the posters whove stated I can shoot through their rhinos etc, I wont- Ive never seen it played that way, nor do I interpret the rules that way- when the hatches are on the model and closed they seem to be in line with the hull, and thus are just as solid as the rest of the model- not like the listed peices of antennae, etc.

 

Thats the other reason I dont drop my doors- to many stupid arguments of what that means for deployment and where my models can be placed.

[rat of vengence]

No, trust me... if it was just a matter of inconvenience Id have dropped this ages ago just to be rid of the repetitive arguments.

GM, not suggesting that this is you, you have already stated that you glue the doors shut cause you don't want to detail the insides, and I respect that.

 

Its about fairness- why should a DP be less availed to the rules of LOS than anything else? And why should they have to move parts that no other model has to have moved?

Because it is specifically mentioned in its rules.

 

Furthermore, why should I have to take anothers idea of what a rule implies, but does not state, if my own reading disagrees with that? Because that is all your reading does RoV, is states what you feel the sentence implies. My interpretation is just as legitimate- that the idea of hatches being blown is an explanation for why it is no longer a sealed enviroment and thus opentopped.

I understand where you are coming from with that, but I believe you are wrong and that is not what the rule actually says. I feel 'hatches are blown' is pretty clear.

 

Thats the other reason I dont drop my doors- to many stupid arguments of what that means for deployment and where my models can be placed.

Avoiding these discussions mid-game is good ;) It is much better here where no dice can be thrown in anger :mellow:

 

Thade, I like your reasoning, but don't agree with your conclusions. Here are some points I feel are relevant (borrowing from your post Thade), but these are extrapolating a tad :P

Once landed, the hatches are blown = all passengers must immediately disembark, none can embark again. So the hatches are opened so they can get out.

No longer a sealed environment = counts as being open-topped because the hatches were blown, leaving it open and vunerable.

 

Not RAW, but certainly relevant imo :)

 

RoV

 

RoV

[Isiah]

Guys the bit about blowing hatches for disembarkation is fluff embellishment only – as has been said, there are no actual rules to say how this is done, the implications of doing it, and when/if it can't be done for any reason (proximity of terrain or enemy models for instance). So as far as disembarking goes it is not relevant.

 

Besides, for all those who argue that it is relevant, I presume gamers who substitute up-ended Rhinos, paper cups or drink cans obviously then can't disembark troops at all as there are no hatches that can be blown :) (same goes for glued shut hatches on real pods) and that is precisely why that "blown hatches" bit is irrelevent.

 

True line of sight/cover/shooting from a pod question is a different matter entirely, and is not for discussion in this topic. So if you want to discuss it somewhere else then please do.

 

Cheers

I

[rat of vengence]

Well, that's your read of it, so I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

 

You are fully entitled to be wrong :P

 

Have a good one fellas :)

 

RoV