ProteanSun Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 In games of 1500+ I will include Ragnar Blackmane, in a LRC in 2k points. My big issues is how many troop choices are enough for Space Wolves? I tend to do it like this... Points = Troop Choices 1000 = 2 1500 = 3 2000 = 4 I am still trying to figure out how many Blood Claws:Grey Hunters I want. I made a list for 2k that included 4 bloodclaw squads in Drop Pods and all 4 of them costed 900 points... With Grey hunters I usually go 10 in a drop pod with melta/plasma and Mark of the Wulfen, which is 20 points cheaper than my 10 Bloodclaws in a drop pod with plasma gun, plasma pistol and Power weapon. I am trying to maximize my damage potential while keeping from going to point heavy into any one squad. Any Thoughts/suggestions? I can post my current list in progress if desired. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 5th Edition is an objective based game. Never-mind how powerful a unit or character is, what will make or break your game is the objectives. Your opponent could decimate your army and leave it in tatters, and yet if you've accomplished the objectives and he hasn't, you win. And vice versa you could decimate your opponent, shatter his army, and yet if he has accomplished the objectives and you have not, you lose. As many Troops as you can comfortably fit in your army, without seriously hampering your ability to complete the objectives, is the key. It's about finding the right balance, without crippling your army. EDIT: Keep in mind the kind of objectives you will be asked to accomplish. There are 3 types of scenarios, Seize and Control, Capture and Control (i think that's what it's called), and Annihilation. Seize and Control - D3+2 objectives. Do you have Troops to take them? Are they mobile enough? If not, do you have enough Troops to take 1 or 2, and enough firepower/combat power to deny or contest the remainder? Capture and Control - Secure the building. Do you have enough Troops to take damage, and STILL get there and take the objective? If not, do you have enough support to ensure your Troops arrive there relatively unmolested? Annihilation - Kill Points. Do you have enough units to do damage while minimizing return fire? In a Kill Point game you need not destroy your opponent's army. You only need to destroy it enough that you end up with more Kill Points than he has. Kill Point denial is equally effective - if not more effective than - taking Kill Points. Take the lead in KP and sit and hide, force him to come to you. You put the pressure on him, he'll have to forfeit better positions and he will make mistakes. Capitalize on that. As an example at 1000 points I have 3 Troops choices, all 10 man Grey Hunter packs (9 + WGPL) all in Rhinos. At 1500 points I have 4 Troop choices, 3 the aforementioned Grey Hunter packs in Rhinos, plus a 7 man Grey Hunter pack in a Drop Pod WITH Ragnar AND Arjac. And I still have Typhoons for long-ranged support and a lone wolf to distract. My 1700 point tournament list has 6 troop choices! All mobile, or mobile enough without crippling their firepower or hampering their ability. Just my 2 cents. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2186683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 currently we've been using 2 objectives on a map and either a turn based or endgame points system so usually i have 3 troops although i do realise that i need more in my army so thats something i need to tweek thats in a 1750 point list but personally i don't think i could go higher than 4 but thats me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2186709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Cuneglas Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Plasma with Bloodclaws is a bad idea to me. You give up the only advantage they have with their BS3 and WS3 and that's the charge. Grey Hunters are such an awesome troop choice, I think you could run a pure GH army and be very competitive. If I run BC's I usually put an IC with them or will run melta/melta MoW. The meltas you will need 2 shots to hit and then you can assault whatever comes out, otherwise if you close the gap you can't even shoot the expensive Plasma or if you do you can't assault. GH's are too good not to take lots of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2186921 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 In games of 1500+ I will include Ragnar Blackmane, in a LRC in 2k points. My big issues is how many troop choices are enough for Space Wolves? I tend to do it like this... Points = Troop Choices 1000 = 2 1500 = 3 2000 = 4 I am still trying to figure out how many Blood Claws:Grey Hunters I want. I made a list for 2k that included 4 bloodclaw squads in Drop Pods and all 4 of them costed 900 points... With Grey hunters I usually go 10 in a drop pod with melta/plasma and Mark of the Wulfen, which is 20 points cheaper than my 10 Bloodclaws in a drop pod with plasma gun, plasma pistol and Power weapon. I am trying to maximize my damage potential while keeping from going to point heavy into any one squad. Any Thoughts/suggestions? I can post my current list in progress if desired. I've been going very infantry heavy since the new codex, and it's been going really well. The back bone of my army is 2 squads of 6 Long Fangs + 2 GH squads at 1000 points, 4 GH squads at 1500, 3 LF & 4-5 GH at 2000 and 3 LF + 5+ GH at 2000+ points. THe Long Fangs have really become my star squads, and they are supremely useful at taking out nasties like Vindicators in the first turn. In short, bring enough squads to take the objectives so add 1 to each of those estimates IMO... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2186942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteanSun Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 I was thinking of running 1/2 of my troops (rounding up) as Grey Hunters. I really like the melta/Plasma Combo (The new plasma gun on the sprue is way too awesome to pass up. I was thinking about running a WG with the Blood Claws to help their shooting, as a plasma pistol is cheaper and they have a better BS. Is it ok to run a 6 man Blood Claw squad in a Razorback with Lukas? I have been interested in using him more, he rocked chops in a 1k game I played Vs. Death Guard army, where I tabled my opponent on turn 5. What about a 5 man WG squad led my Ragnar in a Razorback? I love Ragnar but I am always afraid of the unit annihilating the unit it charges and then getting hammered by everything else. BTW I am very familiar with 40K, I used to get paid to be an expert on it. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2187028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Annihilation is always a victory condition. IF I ran Ragnar I would probly have three squads of 15 Bloodclaws with WG leaders, 2 Squads of Grey Hunters in Rhinos, and a Third Squad of GHs for Ragnar, backed up by Long Fangs and Fenrisian Wolves with a Dreadnaught or two, one of wich having saga of majesty... for a 2,000pt list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2187182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteanSun Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am taking your thoughts to heart Grey Mage, I am working on a new SW list where at 1500 pts I am using 4 troop choices, 2x 15 man Blood Claw Units 1x 10 man GH unit, 1x 8 Man GH unit with Ragnar and a Rune Priest, Long Fangs and a Vindicator, looking for a chance to try it out. That's 4 Troop Choices in 1500 Points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Your footslogging with a vindicator? Are you playing cityfight or just have nerves of adamantium? I cant coutenance blowing up my own squads personally. Otherwise, looks great.... Might I suggest a Whirlwind? Longer range, not as deadly to your own troops, and great for removing pathfinders... one can even deploy it out of LOS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am sort of surprised to hear SW talk of objective taking being primary to Annihilation. With the amount of assault based troops, would not the primary objective be to wipe out the opposition and take their objectives? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am sort of surprised to hear SW talk of objective taking being primary to Annihilation. With the amount of assault based troops, would not the primary objective be to wipe out the opposition and take their objectives? Well as Grey Mage eloquently puts it: Annihilation is always a victory condition. I normally go for the destruction of my opponents forces, even if it's an objective game. Much more satisfying. That's not to say I don't plonk units on objectives, I just try to get them to do some damage too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I am sort of surprised to hear SW talk of objective taking being primary to Annihilation. With the amount of assault based troops, would not the primary objective be to wipe out the opposition and take their objectives? Well as Grey Mage eloquently puts it: Annihilation is always a victory condition. I normally go for the destruction of my opponents forces, even if it's an objective game. Much more satisfying. That's not to say I don't plonk units on objectives, I just try to get them to do some damage too. I would expect that from Grey Mage, he spends more time in the Eternal Crusader than I do in the Fang. @ ProteanSun. Using that Vindicator as mobile cover and fire support is a good idea imo. I have done something similar in the past that really put the pressure on the opposite player. Just keep those that are within 8inches of the cannon behind the cannon, and dont have any of your guys within 12 inches of the area to be affected. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProteanSun Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Your footslogging with a vindicator? Are you playing cityfight or just have nerves of adamantium? I cant coutenance blowing up my own squads personally. Otherwise, looks great.... Might I suggest a Whirlwind? Longer range, not as deadly to your own troops, and great for removing pathfinders... one can even deploy it out of LOS. Honestly I have had great luck with my Vindicator, I had bought one back Xmas 2007 and never assembled it untill the SW came out and I must say it is amazing. I don't use it near my troops usually, more are something to flush out troops holding objectives. My goal is to have a unit of blood claws shepherding the vindicator, perhaps providing cover to it sides and back as it advances up the field. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2189934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Your footslogging with a vindicator? Are you playing cityfight or just have nerves of adamantium? I cant coutenance blowing up my own squads personally. Otherwise, looks great.... Might I suggest a Whirlwind? Longer range, not as deadly to your own troops, and great for removing pathfinders... one can even deploy it out of LOS. Honestly I have had great luck with my Vindicator, I had bought one back Xmas 2007 and never assembled it untill the SW came out and I must say it is amazing. I don't use it near my troops usually, more are something to flush out troops holding objectives. My goal is to have a unit of blood claws shepherding the vindicator, perhaps providing cover to it sides and back as it advances up the field. Ahh.... well it always works better that way- troops supporting tanks instead of tanks supporting troops. Just look at WW1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184973-ragnars-company-and-troop-choices/#findComment-2190030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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