Beef Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 In the codex it mention Kanis beating a wolf gaurd unconcious and dragging him back to the fang where he then fights a wolf Lord who only just beats him. What? Makes no sence (unless my old eyes are decieving me HOw can a non SM (or ordinary human) beat a wolf gaurd unconcious and nearly best a Wolf Lord.?? I dont care if he was raised by wolves or not. Anybody care to shed some light or just tell me I have read it wrong?m Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiplash Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 to me sounds like a buffed up legend story told to those chosen by the wolf priests to create fear etc it is basically rediculous taking out a SM could be explained (jorek wasnt a wolf guard he is an initiate) he wont have been initiated with power armour yet and although his senses will have been advanced by the canis helix they may not be as good or he may not have gotten used to them yet. then there is the fact that tracking in the snow on Fenris would be impossible im sure 20 minutes later there will be a lot of snow to have covered them up but yeah near beating a prestigous wolf lord is stupid Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2186797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Someone got the story of russ confused with the story of this wolf gaurd.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2186802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 hey beef long time no seen! i'm actually not that fond on quite a lot in our dex from a fluff point of view; lone wolves in TDA, the canis dude, thunderwolves and the denying of their use (if we'd include them, why deny to use them!=/ ) also, they yellow eyes on grey hunters, if i'm not mistaken a wolf only gets yellow eyes once he's wolf bitten,right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2186839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Canis back then I would assume had an unconventional approach to fighting, a more animal like way of attack. Compared to a trained Space Wolf warrior. Its like comparing two modern fighters today who have two different styles of fighting, ie. a grappler (jujitsu, judo, wrestling) vs. a striker (boxing, muay thai). It would be difficult to predict your opponents moves, and I would assume Canis was allot faster, he had to be to keep up with the wolves. Suffice to say, his opponent might have been over confident or just underestimated Canis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2186852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Canis back then I would assume had an unconventional approach to fighting, a more animal like way of attack. Compared to a trained Space Wolf warrior. Its like comparing two modern fighters today who have two different styles of fighting, ie. a grappler (jujitsu, judo, wrestling) vs. a striker (boxing, muay thai). It would be difficult to predict your opponents moves, and I would assume Canis was allot faster, he had to be to keep up with the wolves. Suffice to say, his opponent might have been over confident or just underestimated Canis. Or, more likely, it was just poor writing. Someone thought they would make the new special character "uber-kewl", but ended up with "hella-lame" instead. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2186898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i figure it is just GW trying to show how ultra "leet" and "kewl" canis is, so more fanboi's will buy that butt ugly model. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Maybe he was a initiate that never returned to the fang but went to live with wolves :) Would make him as strong as a WG and even a WL Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 hey beef long time no seen!i'm actually not that fond on quite a lot in our dex from a fluff point of view; lone wolves in TDA, the canis dude, thunderwolves and the denying of their use (if we'd include them, why deny to use them!=/ ) also, they yellow eyes on grey hunters, if i'm not mistaken a wolf only gets yellow eyes once he's wolf bitten,right? I have one thing to say about Lone Wolves in TDA: Harsath Bloodmonger was but a humble Grey Hunter, one of a pack of 9. He had the honor to bare a powerfist into battle, and he was darn good at it. At the battle of seven towers his unit was ordered to hold a position at all costs while the rest of the company was redeploying. Nearly 200 of his brothers and 2000 IG were at stake. The world Eaters were numerous, and supported by the tanks of traitor gaurd. Firing for as long as they could from the cover of a ruined building Pack Thurisaz numbered but 3 men when their long fang support was taken out by an enemy defiler. Determined to buy more time at any costs the three Grey Hunters charged forth, Hrothgar and Menoth having taken their fallen brothers meltaguns. As they surged forward guns ablazing they accounted for no fewer then five Leman Russ tanks and a rhino. Still, they were heavily outnumbered and despite the advantage of mobility they had in the crowded confineds of the city-hive they were eventually overun. Harsath himself fell in combat with the dread defiler, Menoth slaying it but a moment later and dying of the shrapnel. Of all his pack only Harsath could be healed by the Wolf Priests. He was given battlefield commendations for valor and heroism, and promoted to Wolf Gaurd on the spot. Harsath however was a changed man, and the death of his brothers and elders laid heavy on his mind. So it was, that a year later he asked his lord and his companies wolf priest to allow him to undergo the ritual of the lone wolf, that he might die in glorious battle and end his suffering. Bjorn Stormwolf was not a man to allow a good resources to be casually thrown away, and so it was that he commanded that if Harsath was to do this, he must do it as he was presently outfitted. He would have five years to acheive his ends- and then, should he have failed he was to be reinducted into the ranks of the Wolf Gaurd. All agree, and the ceremony was held three days later. Harsath Bloodmonger is rumored to be somewhat wolfbitten and unpredictable these days, but all of his company know that he will hold true to his oath- that he will seek ever greater glory, ever greater triumph, in search of honor for his lost pack. While he yearns to die, he cannot do so through incompetency or willfull surrender. So it is that to this day he surges forward, stormshield strapped to one mighty arm and frost blade in the other... and his foes tremble as he comes for their souls. For what is Valhalla without enemies to conquer? Again... I think someone got canis confused with Russ... oral traditions sometimes get skewed like that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
1TH0R3 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Maybe the wolf lord wasnt fully equiped? To make the fight 'fair and just' :) I dunno Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 ok greymage, i understand what you mean about that, point taken where is that fluff from btw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187210 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maznaz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Sigh. It's really hard for some of you more literal people to take I realise, but the character stories in the codex are stated to be "apocryphal". This means they're basically demanding that you take each one with a huge pinch of salt. If you have some personal issue with what you constitute to be reality in a make-believe universe then I probably can't help you, but the fluff writers are trying to write a background for a boastful and arrogant people who essentially make up their own sagas based on a smattering of "true" events. I think the way they've done it is the only truly "fluffy" way they could have done. It's just plain weird that some of you are not able to see that and would rather believe they're just all incompetent writers. Marek Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 in YOUR opinion they are meant to be viewed that way. in my opinion, and the way that they are written they are not camp fire stories but are meant to be accurate stories about the characters background. they are simply not written in a way that shows them to be boastful stories or the sagas of the characters. heres an example of a saga from the codex; 'Dark it was, and dire of form the beast that laid them low Hrothgar sharpened frost-forged blade to deal a fatal blow...' as you can see from that the sagas in the codex are more like poems as it is an oral history that the space wolves keep and is remembered by the skalds and rune priests as well as certain members of the wolf guard. the writing in the descriptions of all the units and characters is not, at least to me, meant as a sga but rather as a true account of an aspect of their history, wither how they became a space wolf or how they earned their current rank. i think the majority here are correct and it was not particularly well written, but then in all honesty a lot of the gamesworkshop stories and fluff aren't that well written, and was more likely overplayed to make him eem harder than he is. its a £25 model, they aren't going to write a story about how he jumped a marine and then got his butt handed to him within 10 seconds before being dragged back unconcious to the fang where the wolf lords laughed at him and made him serve them beer while wearing a dress... its not a great story, but then its not a great character so hey :P oh and i do realise the irony of me complaining about GWs ability to write decent stories when there are undoubtedly a multitude of spelling mistakes and some very poor grammar within my post ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Fenrir Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Sigh. It's really hard for some of you more literal people to take I realise, but the character stories in the codex are stated to be "apocryphal". This means they're basically demanding that you take each one with a huge pinch of salt. If you have some personal issue with what you constitute to be reality in a make-believe universe then I probably can't help you, but the fluff writers are trying to write a background for a boastful and arrogant people who essentially make up their own sagas based on a smattering of "true" events. I think the way they've done it is the only truly "fluffy" way they could have done. It's just plain weird that some of you are not able to see that and would rather believe they're just all incompetent writers. Marek Calm down Son, calm down. Some people don't like the new background, thats all. No need to get fired up about it. I'm not overly keen on some aspects of the new background, but each to their own and all that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Russ' Empty Flaggon!!, it's like a reunion in here! Haven't seen this many Grey Beards aournd the Ale Hall in many a day (Mav, Max, WL Kieran, Whip, Hendrick, Mage...and of course the Mighty Beef!). Maznaz, young whelp, take control of that tongue of your's lest one the grey beards use it for an appetizer for his Thunder Wolf Mount! ;) Hail brothers! (Just realized: My apologies brother Beef, I didn't meant to thread jack...where is Bran when you need the exterminatossock, eh?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 ok greymage, i understand what you mean about that, point takenwhere is that fluff from btw? Actually, that came from a thread here about two months back when people were in an uproar about how Lone Wolves could take TDA. So, I thought about it for a bit... and decided that I would show instead of argue... and wrote up that short. Nothing official, sorry :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 @Jonny Wolf: i am often here, but dont see the point in answering a rules question that has been answered already (usually well answered by GM), and try to avoid some of the more...greener posts to keep what sanity i still have intact. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Brother, I hear ya. That's why I've been back in my corner of the fang waiting for some of the whelps to move onto Nids or Dark Eldar next year. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 It does seem like a reuninion of the grey beards. I keep lurking but as my skills dont lie in rules or army build questions I hardly post. Plus the buggers at work stopped this website for some odd reason. I to think there are some real inconsitancies with the fluff. Lone wolves in TDA seems a bit far fetched unless you see TDA as not that rare in SW armouries. Just thibnk how many Land raider one off the great companies have. To be honest Its just sloppy writing on GW behalf. Yes i love the codex and the mini's. I love the idea of wolf cavalry but as somebody said earliar if we have them why do we hide them? It not like the =I= would hunt us down for riding giant wolves. Also I agree with stinkenhiem that character entries are supposed to be for the most part fact whilst the poem like saga's are more like legends passed down. Its like the entries for troop types are fact just like the entries for Ragnar. you cant say take ragnar entry with a pich of salt as you might as well take what they say about grey hunters with a pinch of salt or any other entry even (that includes Rhinos; Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 *raises his ale horn* "to the greybeards!" let's just face it, GW screwed up some fluffy things,like they happen to do a lot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hey Beef, good that you´re back. :rolleyes: I took a look at the story and all i read was that the WL found it more challenging then he has thought but not that he was close to a defeat. I could imagine that a WG on a Lone Hunt is unarmed and unarmoured. Taken by surprise it could be possible for a not-so-normal human like Canis to take out a WG. It seems that he was risen by wolfs. he lifes amoung them, he hunts with them. He must be well trained and of enormous constitution. To hunt with wolfs you´ll needs a lot of stamina. I don´t find it unthinkable that he beats the WG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hail DB, lol...this is truly turning into a grey beard get together now. lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i can see what you mean DB but still, defeating a normal space marine would be unlikely for a human (even one so though and fast as canis) but plausible,, however, we're talking about a wolf guard here, a veteran of a thousand battles with a combat experience only beaten by a wolf lord. for one of these guys to lose (even when buttnaked) seems a bit to far imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i can see what you mean DB but still, defeating a normal space marine would be unlikely for a human (even one so though and fast as canis) but plausible,, however, we're talking about a wolf guard here, a veteran of a thousand battles with a combat experience only beaten by a wolf lord. for one of these guys to lose (even when buttnaked) seems a bit to far imo. I agree, but i was playing the devil´s advocate. GW needs an explanation to introduce a new character. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Bah personally I don't like Canis or his fluff, or the Wolf Riders for that matter. Russ growing up with Wolves was one thing, some manling whelp doing the same is just lame. It's like the GW writers couldn't use their imaginations and come up with something... new and dare I say it... plausible? Of course not, that would be asking for too much. :( I like a good deal of the stuff in the new Codex, but Wolf Riders and their mascot Canis... well that's another story entirely... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/184985-are-wolf-lords-really-that-week-fluff-wise/#findComment-2187821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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