Are Wolf Lords really that week Fluff wise

[Jonny Wolf]

Hail Vash,

I agree with you brother. A little more thought on the subject could really tidy these things up.

 

Why not 'fluff' testers...sign a few brothers up to secrecy and have some people outside of GW give it all a sanity check before publication.

[Grey Mage]

Because they dont even do alot of playtesting.... so Im sure fluff checkers would be out of the budget eh?

[Jonny Wolf]

Agreed, but how many grey beards would've been more than happy to flush out the fluff for free?

 

GW seems to be oblivious to the fact that there are numerous people around the world that would do this for free.

[Hfran Morkai]

Agreed, but how many grey beards would've been more than happy to flush out the fluff for free?

 

GW seems to be oblivious to the fact that there are numerous people around the world that would do this for free.

 

But then you have the issue of subjectiveness and also the temptation to spill the beans, even if you're just shown the fluff.

[Jonny Wolf]

True. Contracts to Secrecy with threat of lawsuit?

 

I'd be more than happy to sign that in order to keep our history accurate (not that would have any business keping our fluff straight, but I'm sure Mav, Vash, you, Rags, etc, etc could/would do it).

[Grey Mage]

Agreed, but how many grey beards would've been more than happy to flush out the fluff for free?

 

GW seems to be oblivious to the fact that there are numerous people around the world that would do this for free.

*Raises hand* Id do it, and Id let them look at my emails and everything under a security contract with a hefty fine.

 

Especially if I could get paid to right those fluff blocks... thatd be a dream come true.

[Hfran Morkai]

True. Contracts to Secrecy with threat of lawsuit?

 

I'd be more than happy to sign that in order to keep our history accurate (not that would have any business keping our fluff straight, but I'm sure Mav, Vash, you, Rags, etc, etc could/would do it).

 

It would be awfully tempting to ensure our chapter remained respectable towards the others and have some subtlety, along with emphasising the way they wage war.

 

I wish they would implement something like that though it's highly unlikely.

[Valerian]

i can see what you mean DB but still, defeating a normal space marine would be unlikely for a human (even one so though and fast as canis) but plausible,, however, we're talking about a wolf guard here, a veteran of a thousand battles with a combat experience only beaten by a wolf lord. for one of these guys to lose (even when buttnaked) seems a bit to far imo.

 

And he wasn't even beaten by a normal human man, but a human boy; the first implant in the process toward becoming a Space Marine occurs between 10-12 years of age. That full-fledged Wolf Guard was beaten by a pre-pubescent "tween". Yeah right.

 

Admittedly, GW doesn't seem to be staying true to their own fluff much for the past few years in this regard. Consider the example of Lukas sharing the bed of a dozen women in one night before he joined the Space Wolves, which is quite a feat for any pre-teen. Perhaps they have drifted because of some folk being overly sensitive to the idea of the process occuring prior to manhood. However, I've never seen the original timeline for the genetic modification and implant procedures officially redacted, so they still must work in concert with the hormonal surges of puberty.

 

This gets us back to the original issue: some Wolf Guard got beaten up by a little boy; nice job writers.

 

V

[Grey Mage]

Valerian- Note, that that process has been stated to be a post-heresy way of doing things in order to stabilize the gene-seeds that were damaged during the Heresy.

 

SWs likely use an older method, as taught to them by the emperor... wich may or may not got on the same timeline. Ragnar was I believe around 16 when we was chosen according to the William King books, and some of the initiates were older... and then they trained for around a year before being accepted.

[hendrik]

besides from a medievalish/fenrisian people point of view 16 would be the age a men became mature i'd say

[Vash113]

True. Contracts to Secrecy with threat of lawsuit?

 

I'd be more than happy to sign that in order to keep our history accurate (not that would have any business keping our fluff straight, but I'm sure Mav, Vash, you, Rags, etc, etc could/would do it).

 

I'd proof read and edit fluff snippets for free and I'd probably sign any secrecy document GW could write up to be permitted to do so. Whatever as long as it would help ensure stuff like this doesn't happen.

 

Canis' fluff irks me almost as much as the new Vanguard/Sternguard and Ultramarines fanboy nonsense... bah.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i played the Wolves for the last 9 years cause of the fluff, definetly not for the rapidly outdated rules. i would gladly read through fluff for no charge, point out the blaringly wrong (how many wolf lords have we had in the last 200 years anyways?!?!)/stupid (canis, why we hide the awesome thunderwolf mounts)

 

WLK

[Valerian]

Valerian- Note, that that process has been stated to be a post-heresy way of doing things in order to stabilize the gene-seeds that were damaged during the Heresy.

 

SWs likely use an older method, as taught to them by the emperor... wich may or may not got on the same timeline. Ragnar was I believe around 16 when we was chosen according to the William King books, and some of the initiates were older... and then they trained for around a year before being accepted.

 

GM,

 

The process describing the creation of a Space Marine has been pretty consistent throughout most GW products since the RT era. In every case, the process has always been described as working in concert with puberty and the hormone surges and body growth associated with that stage of human male development (which is the most significant argument for why there can be no women Space Marines). Considering the significant changes that a Space Marine will endure, it makes quite a bit of sense that the process would occur in concert with this time of development, instead of after natural growth had already ceased, and the candidates body had already stabilized.

 

The only real discrepancy I've found deals with the integration of the companions of the Primarchs on their native worlds with the Terran Space Marines that the Emperor had created during the Great Crusades. For example, Lion El Johnson's knights, including Luthor, were somehow also made into Space Marines and joined the Dark Angels. These were all full-grown men, and I don't believe any of the writers ever bothered to explain how this was accomplished, exactly. I always just presumed that it was another one of those screw-ups in which someone completely overlooked, or disregarded, a fundamental part of the SM background info.

 

V

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Valerian- Note, that that process has been stated to be a post-heresy way of doing things in order to stabilize the gene-seeds that were damaged during the Heresy.

 

SWs likely use an older method, as taught to them by the emperor... wich may or may not got on the same timeline. Ragnar was I believe around 16 when we was chosen according to the William King books, and some of the initiates were older... and then they trained for around a year before being accepted.

 

GM,

 

The process describing the creation of a Space Marine has been pretty consistent throughout most GW products since the RT era. In every case, the process has always been described as working in concert with puberty and the hormone surges and body growth associated with that stage of human male development (which is the most significant argument for why there can be no women Space Marines). Considering the significant changes that a Space Marine will endure, it makes quite a bit of sense that the process would occur in concert with this time of development, instead of after natural growth had already ceased, and the candidates body had already stabilized.

 

The only real discrepancy I've found deals with the integration of the companions of the Primarchs on their native worlds with the Terran Space Marines that the Emperor had created during the Great Crusades. For example, Lion El Johnson's knights, including Luthor, were somehow also made into Space Marines and joined the Dark Angels. These were all full-grown men, and I don't believe any of the writers ever bothered to explain how this was accomplished, exactly. I always just presumed that it was another one of those screw-ups in which someone completely overlooked, or disregarded, a fundamental part of the SM background info.

 

V

 

or a more striking example would be from the 13th Company, who according to the story in Tales of Heresy, were all axe-men of Russ who were warned of the dangers of trying to modify human adults, did so anyways, and lost many many men to the process. I think the sory said only about 200 or so made it through.

 

and lets remember, the "create a homicidal killing machine" proceedure actually got slowed down by Guilliman, in order to better screen and test space marines canidates.

 

WLK

[Valerian]

Oh, and I forgot another important part of this. The 2nd edition Space Wolves codex specifically states that "Space Marines must be selected young if they are to survive the difficult transformation from normal human to genetically enhanced superbeing. Young warriors, eager to attract the attention of the gods, fight together in a distinct band called Wolfbrothers....many Wolfbrothers die in battle before they reach manhood."

 

 

V

[Vash113]

Well the Knights of Caliban did not become full astartes. Their transformation was only... partial. They could not be implanted with the progenoid gland and other alterations such as increased muscle and bone mass were also partial in the extreme I would expect. This resulted in the Knights being significantly smaller than actual Space Marines but no less determined to prove their worth.

 

The short story about the Axemen of Russ and the 13th Company was stupid, and there's no justification for how such a thing could be done, it flies in the face of the fluff on the creation of the Space Marines and I dearly hope it's dropped or ammended in some way.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The short story about the Axemen of Russ and the 13th Company was stupid, and there's no justification for how such a thing could be done, it flies in the face of the fluff on the creation of the Space Marines and I dearly hope it's dropped or ammended in some way.

 

dont hold back, tell us how you really feel... :D

 

WLK

[Jonny Wolf]

Ahh,

it warms my heart to see so many grey beards in the ale halls again.

 

Back to topic:

 

Canis, Lone Wolf w/ TDA and a few other discrepencies, I'm still very pleased with this codex...

 

Thoughts, brothers?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

Ahh,

it warms my heart to see so many grey beards in the ale halls again.

 

Back to topic:

 

Canis, Lone Wolf w/ TDA and a few other discrepencies, I'm still very pleased with this codex...

 

Thoughts, brothers?

 

 

i wont touch canis, i dont see a point on a fighty HQ option that doesnt come with a good Invul save. and the model is ass ugly.

havent touched the Lone Wolf either, it doesnt sit right with me fielding a character with the sole intention of him dying, regardless of how much he takes with him. if i wanted disposable troops I'd play Guard.

 

other than that, and me losing my good ole game winning termie unit of doom, i am decently happy with this book.

 

WLK

[Beef]

Welcome Vash and DB. Its been to long brothers.

 

While I agree a SW on a lone hunt would be unarmed and unarmoured he would still be a SW. A normal human can only become strong to a certain level. No way would there stregth or spead equal that of a SW. Just not possible, no matter how much they run with wolves or not. Besides Leman Russ being taken in as a child by wolves is believeable. Kanis being taken in as a mere human child equal a snack me thinks.

 

Mama wolf to baby wolves. Look its the lord of Fenris at our door, quick take him in as one of ours.

 

Mama wolf to baby wolves (when kanis stumbles in) oh look kids the village fast food joint does free home delivery, eat up

 

@Vash I know the story about the Axemen of Russ does go against the grain fluff wise about how SW are created but I think King took that away years ago. 1 Fenris year = 2 terran years so ragnar if he was 14 when recrited would actually have been 28 (makes no sence)

But I like the fact that Russ old boys decided to try become SW even though it would kill them the fact that somesurvived just shows me that SW geneseed is superior to the rest of the chapters.

Hell we have all the perks they do plus acute sences and cool teath

[Grey Mage]

See, in general I enjoy the new codex. I think that TWC should have been brought in as 13nth company units, and I feel that "Lone Wolves" are just the old Wulfen really... so I see no change there. Fluff wise yes, rules wise no.

 

I disapprove of the Mark of the Wulfen everywhere... I see it as a half-arsed attempt to make up for the loss of a second SCCW. 13nth co players might enjoy it, but it doesnt belong in the normal companies who dread such a fate.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

See, in general I enjoy the new codex. I think that TWC should have been brought in as 13nth company units, and I feel that "Lone Wolves" are just the old Wulfen really... so I see no change there. Fluff wise yes, rules wise no.

 

I disapprove of the Mark of the Wulfen everywhere... I see it as a half-arsed attempt to make up for the loss of a second SCCW. 13nth co players might enjoy it, but it doesnt belong in the normal companies who dread such a fate.

 

i dunno there, i actually like units with Mark of the Wulfen...shows the more wild side of the Wolves, the animal within that appeared so often in the ragnar series.

 

WLK

[Grey Mage]

See, in general I enjoy the new codex. I think that TWC should have been brought in as 13nth company units, and I feel that "Lone Wolves" are just the old Wulfen really... so I see no change there. Fluff wise yes, rules wise no.

 

I disapprove of the Mark of the Wulfen everywhere... I see it as a half-arsed attempt to make up for the loss of a second SCCW. 13nth co players might enjoy it, but it doesnt belong in the normal companies who dread such a fate.

 

i dunno there, i actually like units with Mark of the Wulfen...shows the more wild side of the Wolves, the animal within that appeared so often in the ragnar series.

 

WLK

You might also remember in the Ragnar series how much of a horrible fate it was regarded, and how few people trusted such a creature. You might also remember that "Wolf Bitten" was a lesser affliction on the road to the mark of the wulfen, and was a point at wich the beast might be halted.

 

It shouldnt be mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Bitten I could understand, but not the mark.

[Valerian]

My opinion, the new codex is really good, maybe even great, but it isn't perfect. I've already covered what I would have done differently in another thread, so I won't cover it all here, but I will detail a few points.

 

TWC I like; interesting new addition that is characterful, and further distinguishes us from other Marines.

Canis; idea for a TWM riding special character is appropriate, but his backstory is lame, being little more of a copy and paste of the story of Leman Russ himself.

Arjac; great idea, great backstory, great tabletop rules. He is the modern day Ranulf and I don't mind that they made Arjac instead of bringing Ranulf back.

Lukas; I'm not a huge fan; he's too undisciplined to be a Space Marine, and doesn't fit any of the themes that I care for. They even screwed up his Pelt rule as if he were originally an IC, then they changed it, but forgot to adjust the Pelts effects.

MotW; the tabletop effect is a fun addition, but as GM and others have noted, it's really not appropriate for regular Wolves, and should have been reserved for 13th Company.

Lone Wolf; I haven't really included one in my list yet, as my Elite slots are already full, but I love this new addition; great idea; great on the tabletop. Only drawback is no easy transport option, would have liked a Scout Move or something like that for them.

Sagas; another great new idea; all are good except Saga of the Hunter, which should have either allowed BEL (and thus ability to join Wolf Scouts), or allowed attached unit to Outflank with character (requiring a more expensive Saga, of course).

 

Overall, great codex though.

 

V

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I love the idea of wolf cavalry but as somebody said earliar if we have them why do we hide them? It not like the =I= would hunt us down for riding giant wolves.

 

No, but they might tell people. It's embarrassing enough that we have brothers that ride wolves without other people finding out about it.