When is it doable to demonzilla?

[Niiai]

Hi, I have a SW army, but I realy, realy, relay realy like the demons. I have ever since I first saw them because I like big solid hitters that look impresive.

 

My question is, can you build a big demon army at 1000 points? Flavour is moastly secondary, right now I just wanne know if it is doable?

 

(I was also toying with an all Nergle zoombie like feel list, but aparantly my oponent kan just kite my army to death.)

 

anyway, can it be done? The demonzilla at 1000 points, that is what I regulary play.

[Captain Malachi]

It can be done, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for competetive play. At 1k you're not looking at more than two or three big guys, and they'll likely get swamped due to lack of support. On the other hand, no-one thinks about coming up against three MCs at 1k, so they won't build their list with it in mind. I imagine it would be kinda like taking a pair of land raiders, you either win big or you lose utterly.

 

Oh, and I don't mean to be rude or anything, but could you look over your posts before posting? All those spelling errors are quite distracting and make it hard to read.

[Lord Eltor]

GUO, Cloud of Flies, instrument

 

3x7 Plaguebearers

 

Prince, Flight, MoN, Cloud of Flies

Prince, Flight, MoN, Cloud of Flies

Prince, Hide, MoN, Cloud of Flies, Gaze

 

Total: 1000 points. You COULD fit in more MCs but I thought a 3rd troop choice might be useful ... This would even be a nurgle-list!

 

I think I will try to play such a list once!

[Niiai]

Hehe, sory Malachi but I am a dyslextic so as a personal avatar of entropy it would not help very mutch to look over the posts. :-/

 

But cool. The Nurgle troops have a lott of staying power, and I would use the 3 princes and the Great unclean one to chase down the enemy. (GUO has the move through cover so it would help him a lott.) I was a bit afraid it would die to ranged attacks.

 

Is it posible to change one of the princes out with a herland or something on a chariot? Or would it just die very easaly? (The nurgle heralnd would be quite bad since he cant get a chariot and he would have slow but porposfull...)

 

EDIT: Hmmm....changing one of the flying princes into a sould grinder would help macking the army a bit more versatile. If I give him an Phlegm canon as well I would have some anti horde attacks.

[Damocles]

Like Mal said, since your average really good Monstrous Daemon costs around 200 points, you won't have many MCs or much of anything else either. Obviously you can save points by not taking upgrades like Iron Hide, but it is really good and the 215pt. Nurgle Prince is probably the best MC to take other than a Greater Daemon.

 

But you can take a Keeper with Might and Musk and 3 Heavy Assault Nurgle Princes and still have about 140 pts left over, so you can take 10 plaguebearers and 1 less upgrade somewhere so you're not 10 points over. Obviously you're light on troops but DSing 10 Plaguebearers in cover could let you sit on an objective, and your opponent will probably be much more worried about the 4 fast monstrous creatures screaming toward their lines, 3 of which could drop in the first wave.

[Niiai]

But would it be possible to scale them down? A 1000 point game and a 2000 point game is the same thing, it just have fewer units and less armaments.

 

A demon prince with armour and wings, withouth the mark or Nurgle would still be quite bad, although he would be wounded on a 5 and a 6. He would not wound so esaly, but he has an enormous streanght so he would wound regular troops a whole lot better. I would just have to make them more purpose spesefick, like tank hunter (flight), MC hunter (Nurgle and poison) and Unit killer.

 

A prince with wings, hide, nurge, flies and touch for 215, above 1/5 of the 1000 points. He would still be viable at lover levels or would he not? In smaler levels tha table is smaler as well so that an Unclean one would actualy be a threath.

 

I am not critizising here, I just want to know if it is doable. It is bad to spend loads of money on an army, paint it for a month, and then just die horribly. I realy like the look and the feel of MC. :-)

[Damocles]

But would it be possible to scale them down? A 1000 point game and a 2000 point game is the same thing, it just have fewer units and less armaments.

 

It's certainly possible to play a Monstrous Creature focused list at 1500+, you'll just have more other types of units than in small games.

 

A demon prince with armour and wings, withouth the mark or Nurgle would still be quite bad, although he would be wounded on a 5 and a 6. He would not wound so esaly, but he has an enormous streanght so he would wound regular troops a whole lot better. I would just have to make them more purpose spesefick, like tank hunter (flight), MC hunter (Nurgle and poison) and Unit killer.

 

Your example prince with only Flight and Iron Hide would have Strength 5, wounding marines on a 3+ and tougher troops on 4s and 5s. A Nurgle Prince with Noxious Touch wounds everything on a 2+ and can re-roll against anything with Toughness equal to or less than its strength (5). This means the Prince also wounds Carnifexes and other Daemon Princes on a 2+ which means its able to wreck infantry units, killing models for no loss due to its toughness, or deal serious wounds to big creatures. Against vehicles the +1S bonus from Unholy Might is better than Noxious Touch, but it's still okay.

 

A prince with wings, hide, nurge, flies and touch for 215, above 1/5 of the 1000 points. He would still be viable at lover levels or would he not? In smaler levels tha table is smaler as well so that an Unclean one would actualy be a threath.

 

Sure he's a fifth of your army, but you only take 3 and your list is based on MCs. He's also much better at EVERYTHING than a cheaper Prince.

 

I am not critizising here, I just want to know if it is doable. It is bad to spend loads of money on an army, paint it for a month, and then just die horribly. I realy like the look and the feel of MC. :-)

[minigun762]

It can be done, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for competetive play. At 1k you're not looking at more than two or three big guys, and they'll likely get swamped due to lack of support. On the other hand, no-one thinks about coming up against three MCs at 1k, so they won't build their list with it in mind. I imagine it would be kinda like taking a pair of land raiders, you either win big or you lose utterly.

 

I have to say that I think it can be done competitively, partly for the reason that Captain Malachi mentioned but mostly because MCs in general tend to be great multi-purpose units. They can't be insta-killed, they are great against tanks, they are usually fast and they are fairly durable with their Inv saves.

 

I would say that in smaller games, the power of the MC is even more impressive, because few people take enough weapons to kill 4+ of them.

 

Here is what I'd do probably, approaching it from a competitive viewpoint:

 

Keeper of Secrets

 

2 x 8 Plaguebearers

 

 

Daemon Prince, Mark of Khorne, Iron Hide, Wings

Daemon Prince, Mark of Tzeentch, Gaze

Daemon Prince, Mark of Nurgle, Wings, Cloud of Flies

 

fill in the remaining points with whatever you want

the PlagueBearers go to ground on an objective while the MCs go around killing things

[Niiai]

Cool.

 

In my group we usualy try to stau away from Land Raiders in smaler games because the game usualy is all about them. You are not playing 40,k, you are playing Land Raider boss fight.

 

Deamons though are very cool, and they don't have to cost a whopping 250+. The deamon princes minigun sugests are not death machines, but they cost over half of what a prince of nurge fully upgrades cists, so you get 3 instead of two. Or is a prince just useles unles you mount him fully up? :-) You have played them, so you would know after all. The psycological victory should be there for seing 4-5 MC's.

 

To quote The Beastie Boys: "Juts thre MC's and one DJ, Mix-Masta-Mice what do you have to say? *scratchingboard starts to laught*"

 

 

Heck, I can have a Lord of Change (The scheeming deamon) and three deamon princes from the other powers and I could call them the bestieboys. :D Just throw in come point capturing nerge to claim objektives and I am all good. :P

[Damocles]

Cool.

 

In my group we usualy try to stau away from Land Raiders in smaler games because the game usualy is all about them. You are not playing 40,k, you are playing Land Raider boss fight.

 

Deamons though are very cool, and they don't have to cost a whopping 250+. The deamon princes minigun sugests are not death machines, but they cost over half of what a prince of nurge fully upgrades cists, so you get 3 instead of two. Or is a prince just useles unles you mount him fully up? :-) You have played them, so you would know after all. The psycological victory should be there for seing 4-5 MC's.

 

Just one point: A Keeper of Secrets with no upgrades and 3 Daemon Princes with Hide, Flight, MoN, Noxious Touch and Cloud of Flies leave you enough points to buy 2 5-man Plaguebearer squads, so in both your situation and mine you'd have 3 Princes. Obviously cheaper/less-upgraded Princes would save you more points, as would switching the Keeper to a GUO (which would fit a Nurgle theme as well), I was just pointing out my opinion of how to have 4 MCs in 1000pts. where each one is rock-hard. How you outfit them is of course up to you.

 

I don't mean to say that Princes are useless when not given lots of upgrades/given the good Nurgle upgrades. Cheaper princes are still good in combat, are MCs and are more affordable. Tzeentch Princes can be good support units that are deadly in combat, and Khorne princes are rightly feared. But in my opinion if you put a lot of points in a Prince's ability to inflict damage (especially in a list built around them) it makes sense to also make them as tough as possible to protect your investment. The end result is an expensive but not over-costed Daemon that is very good at many things.

[Corpse.]

3 Barebone princes = 240, any extra bits at the low cost game would be a waste for the theme. Add a 3+ save? You just spent 3/4ths points of the third prince on a silly armor save.

 

2 Greater Daemons, preferably not the 200+ point ones and no spendy additions bought. Keeping them 350 and below is best IMO for both HQ's.

 

240+350= 590, thats 410 points left for troops. Enough for 29 daemonettes. They alone can kill other monstrous creatures with little effort, even if they get charged by a carnifex, that fex will be lucky to survive long enough to hit the daemonettes if you run squads of 9~10.