Best way to use Chapter Master?

[templargdt]

Hey guys, I picked up the Space Marine Commander box today and intend to run him as a Chapter Master. What do you think is the best way to equip and accompany him? I was thinking about this set up:

 

Chapter Master, Storm Shield, Relic Blade, Bolt Pistol (170)

5 Honor Guards, Relic Blade for Company Champion, Chapter Banner (225)

Rhino (35)

 

total points = 430

 

The Rhino allows the Chapter Master to drop the orbital bombardment on someone and not to be in the open waiting to get shot to death, plus cheap mobility for the squad. On the charge thats 10 Relic Blade attacks and 20 Power Weapon attacks.

 

What do you guys think? I'm considering using a bunch of Vindicators in the army to toss out even more Strength 10 pie plates.

[Giga]

I say you should run him as a captain. Orbital bombardment isn't really all that great.

 

Anyway, I'd do all out and give him relic blade, storm shield, and artificer armor, and replace that honor guard with 5 assault terminators and get them a LR to drive around in.

 

Trust me, you don't want your 400 point unit driving around in a rhino. They can't even assault out of it.

[FabulousRex]

Agree totally here, go big or go home! Those HG are gonna have limited options in a Rhino, perhaps if they could shoot a bit better, but probably not.

 

As for the Cpt vs Master, it boils down to one key issue- HG or CmndSqd? The Orbital Strike is definate weaksauce, not worth the effort for only 1 shot. Since stats are identical, you really have to consider the Unlockable options as more important. CmndSqds have as much ability as HG, but with many more options for shooting and moving. When you also factor in that Cpts can mount on a Bike to give you Bikes-as-Troops, and I feel the Master becomes very expendable.

 

As for your above build, try changing to a Cpt with the same gear, and ride him with a CmndSqd toting 4 Meltaguns along with 1 PF in a Razorback. This gives you vastly improved Shooting and CC capabilities, specifically angled towards Monstrous Creature destruction. This will also cost you a significant 65pts less...

[thade]

I honestly recommend Vanguard over Honor Guard for the purposes of running around with the Chapter Master, especially if you mean for the CM to be a combat monster (for instance, I run a Counts-As Calgar pretty frequently). The vanguard can be equipped with Storm Shields, which the Honor Guard cannot be (which blows my mind, but there it is), and while they won't be *as* epic at cutting down infantry as an HG would, they will be able to stand up to a Demon Prince (mine do, once a week) which would eat the Honor Guard in (seriously) one round of combat, the HG wouldn't have a chance to swing back.

 

If you are building a custom guy, I agree that Orbital Strike is not worth the points. It's fine when it comes "for free" with a combat monster like Calgar (I've used it to pop a transport now and again) but that 25 points could go elsewhere. Also, whereas the HG is tricky to use, a Command Squad is much easier to use...storm shields if you wish, an Apothecary, all sorts of load outs...I'd actually make the command squad ranged (all plasma or something, no champion) and still use a Vanguard to support the Captain in CC.

 

All that said, if it's your goal to run an Honor Guard (I will admit, I'm painting one right now), then a Chapter Master is for you, custom or otherwise. :) I would use them very differently though: 3-4 wounds with a 4++ or 3++ has a very different application than a unit of 3-5 guys with 2+ saves, no invulns, and all power weapons hitting at S4 or S6. So the HG wouldn't be an escort for my CM. They would be specifically a clean up crew for units that don't have a buried power fist, riding around in a cheap rhino/razorback (I think they can take a transport?). Alternatively you might consider using the HG's ability to all take auxilary grenade launchers and see how fun that might be. (I won't be doing that, but then, I'm a melee nut.)

[Ming]

If you are set on a Master, for the points the preconstructed ones are great values. When I'm not using Kantor, I have a Master with Artsy Armor, Storm Bolter, Relic Blade, Digital Weaps., with a bodyguard of some kind. He can easily be demoted to a Captain with HQ squad.

 

As a Master - a hidden cheese to look at or experiement: attach him to a demisquad of vanguard maxed on power weaps and a rhino. Compare that to honor guard for fun. Often I just attach the Master to a "home base" tac squad until mid game arrives.

[thade]

If you are set on a Master, for the points the preconstructed ones are great values. When I'm not using Kantor, I have a Master with Artsy Armor, Storm Bolter, Relic Blade, Digital Weaps., with a bodyguard of some kind. He can easily be demoted to a Captain with HQ squad.

 

As a Master - a hidden cheese to look at or experiement: attach him to a demisquad of vanguard maxed on power weaps and a rhino. Compare that to honor guard for fun. Often I just attach the Master to a "home base" tac squad until mid game arrives.

 

Vanguard aren't cheese! Geez. They catch enough flak around here for "being obtusely overpriced" and "having no reasonable application."

 

My vanguard tears huge chunks out of armies before they go down (if they go down). They often earn their points back. All 500 of them. @_@

[ShinyRhino]

The benefit of the Orbital Bombardment is that it's unlimited range, and doesn't require LOS. You can use it first turn to bomb ANY unit on the board. I've used to to bomb a Defiler into submission on Turn One, as well as various infantry, Nids Warriors, etc.

I kinda miss having it, now that I've moved away to a Biker list.

[thade]

The benefit of the Orbital Bombardment is that it's unlimited range, and doesn't require LOS. You can use it first turn to bomb ANY unit on the board. I've used to to bomb a Defiler into submission on Turn One, as well as various infantry, Nids Warriors, etc.

I kinda miss having it, now that I've moved away to a Biker list.

 

Yeah, that is nice. Str 10 AP 1 no LOS required BOOM. Sure, it will fully scatter, but 20% of the time it won't, and most of the time when it does it'll only be about 7", so SOMETHING is going to hurt.

[templargdt]

So wait, can you use orbital bombardment from inside a Land Raider since it doesn't require LOS?

[DarkGuard]

So wait, can you use orbital bombardment from inside a Land Raider since it doesn't require LOS?

 

I don't believe so, though I think there has been debate on this. My interpretation is no firing point, no attack, regardless of whether it needs LOS, but some may differ in opinion.

[Captain Idaho]

No because the Landraider has no firepoints and you can only shoot out of a vehicle with firepoints. Although I could be wrong, I haven't the rule book with me, but I think I am right!

 

I would say Orbital Bombardment is very good in todays climate of Executioner Leman Russ', Battlewagons full of Ork Nobz, Nob Bikers, Landraiders with assault units inside and Monoliths. You get to fire a S10 weapon that is likely to hit thanks to the sheer size of the target, and if it does you get to roll 2 D6 and pick the highest to penetrate against Side armour, with +1 to the damage table!

 

That ain't bad for 25pts!

 

And besides, Honour Guard are amazing! They are much more dangerous than people give them credit for, as the Chapter Banner grants the Champion and Master an extra attack, which is what makes the unit stand out in comparison to Terminators and other assault units. Any character you attach to a unit with a Chapter Banner is going to be nastier in CC, and for Relic Balde toting nut cases which strike at higher initiative than most opponents. The Champion has the benefit of lots of attacks and a high WS, to mimick the power of another Character within the unit, something an Assault Terminator can't be upgraded to.

 

I said it before, Honour Guard fit a niche that Assault Terminators don't.

 

Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield Terminators are the most survivable and excell at killing high initiative Monstrous Creatures (i.e. anything other than a Carnifex). They struggle against hoard units and massed attacks, as they strike last.

 

Lightning Claw Terminators have good survivability and good killing power, having reasonable amounts of attacks at initiative 4 and good hitting power. They aren't as good at fighting the forementioned Monstrous Creatures like Thunder Hammer Terminators, and can't kill as many WS4, T4 models as Honour Guard can, but they give a decent performance at both plus having a reasonable invulnerable to boot (though don't rely on it).

 

Honour Guard excel at clearing out enemy units rather than enemy hard targets, being able to put so many attacks on opponents in just 2 close combat phases. They, rather fittingly, increase the power of attached characters with the Chapter Banner plus essentially have a Captain attached to the squad as standard for no extra points. He can be upgraded to have powerful weapons too, my favourite being a Relic Blade as he can hit at initiative and wound on a 2+. Lack of invulnerable saves makes the unit the weakest in close combat.

 

Each unit has it's own strengths and weaknesses, which most people fail to see as they only see a single way of playing Space Marines and associate a single of the 3 units above into that method, assuming because the other units don't complement their style those units most be rubbish.

 

Overall, taking Honour Guard means your assault targets just change slightly to take of Thunder Hammer units. Keeping them alive is not a problem really, since cover is easy to come by in 5th edition and assaulting your desired targets means you won't be getting mauled unneccessarily.

 

As for putting them in a Rhino, this can work provided you are on the ball of what you are doing. Moving 12" turn 1 and popping smoke is pretty standard for a Rhino borne assault unit, just ask Black Templars and Space Wolves players. If your Rhino dies the next turn, don't fret! The opponent has obviously committed to destroying it so that saved your game winning Tactical squad in their Rhino! A disembark, 6" move and 6" assault combined with the previous 1st turns movement is a total of 26"! Deceptively far.