Sternguard in support of my army, How?

[Titan87]

Okay so I played a few games, and won 2 of them. I am struggled to use the sternguard effectively, and they ended taking a ton of fire, and over two games they only destroyed one squad of dire avengers and a Wraithlord.

 

So my question is am I investing to much in the stern guard? I really like them, and they seem like really potent offensive weapon but I just can't get a handle on how to use them. They are too expensive to just sit on an objective, and I don't like suicide units (If I take one it will be an Ironclad), so how can I use them to best support my Army?

 

The list below is what I used, and is becoming one of my favorites (for my DIY chapter)

 

HQ

Chapter Master (Kantor Special Rules)

Captain (Lysander Rules)

 

Elites

10x Assault Terminators

Land Raider

 

10x Sternguard Sgt with Power Fist (3x Combi Melta)

Rhino

 

10x Sternguard Sgt with Power Fist (3x Combi Melta)

Rhino

 

Troops

10 man tactical squad

Sgt Power Fist

Flamer

Multi Melta

Rhino

 

10 man tactical squad

Sgt Power Fist

Flamer

Lascannon

 

FA

Land Speeder with MM+HB

Land Speeder with MM+HB

 

HS

Land Raider with MM

Total 2500

[silversmith82]

IMO 20 sternguard is way too big a pointsink as they die just as easy as regular tac marines.

 

I dunno it could be competetive. I haven't played them yet either but IMO they just cost too much to use that many. Maybe take 6 of them in a Razorback and go hunting.

 

Also you can't fit 10 assault terminators in a LR, just 6. Or 8 if its a LRC.

 

I assume by LR with MM you mean LRC?

[Titan87]

Okay, So if I dropped one squad what should I replace the sternguard with?

 

The Assault terminators will combat squad with 5 & an HQ going in the each of the two Land Raiders. (They are phobos (Godhammer) LRs (I had an extra 20 points).

[ShinyRhino]

I have to ask what the point of taking Lysander is, if you're just throwing him in a Raider with a bunch of Hammernators. IMO, he'd be more useful giving Bolter Drill to a squad with...bolters B)

 

This is a very "squishy" list for 2500 points. At that point level, you can't expect your four infantry squads to do a whole lot. They just don't have the punch to take on some of the heavy hitters or sheer numbers you'll be seeing in that large a list. Sternguard are largely an anti-infantry force. A concentrated Mechanized force won't be bothered by them in the least.

 

The two landspeeders provide some pump and strong fire, but not enough of it in a solid delivery mechanism. AV10 can be brought down by MEQ bolters, or even a volley of rapid-firing Tau Fire Warriors. A stray missile can end the landspeeders' day early. You want more heavy hitters in a 2500 point list.

 

I'd pick one HQ, nto two. Either dump Kantor, or Lysander.

Two squads of Sternguard is doable, but they're better defensive troops than offensive. You might want to buy them Razorbacks instead, and combat squad. In Annihilation scenarios, keep them as one large squad, and hunker down in cover. Use the different fire modes of their special ammo as targets come into range. This works nicely in objective games when combined with Pedro Kantor, as he makes them scoring, and able to claim a home objective, though Lysander makes their shooting more reliable, and can improve their cover saves in a ruin.

[Titan87]

Thanks, Rhino. I'm still on the fence with how to use Lysander, but I want somebody in the list with eternal warrior, I have kantor as my second HQ because he makes sternguard scoing. Thanks for the advice, I'll put up a new list at some point.

[captain_shrike]

You can't use the special rules from both characters.

 

If more than one character in your army has the chapter tactics special rule, you must chose which version will apply

 

Considering that, I would drop Kantor.

 

Aside from that, I think 2 Sternguard squads is too many. I'd only have more than one in a big apocalypse battle. Especially as you have a 10 man termie squad aswell.

 

With the points leftover I would buy another tactical squad. Then maybe some a little more anti-tank punch. Predator Annihalator? You can bump up your lanspeeder squadron to the full 3.......

[jesselowe]

You can't use the special rules from both characters.

 

If more than one character in your army has the chapter tactics special rule, you must chose which version will apply

 

Considering that, I would drop Kantor.

 

Moot point. Lysander's Chapter Tactics is the stubborn USR; Kantor's is the stubborn USR + scoring special units. As long as you go with Kantor as your chapter tactics, you haven't lost anything by taking Lysander as well. (Kantor's Inspiring Presence and Lysander's Bolter Drill are not part of their Chapter Tactics.)

[Ming]

Hmmm.

 

Lysander is pretty good, but I'd keep Kantor.

 

Kantor is also Inspiring. If he is close enough to your squads of terminators, he multipliers their attacks more than adding Lysander could by his presence. Either way, for the price of one, you could add a whole other termie squad or tac squad.

[kaiserstole20]

I'd replace Lysander with a librarian, reduce one sternguard unit down to 6 vets, and ditch the rhino for that unit. The Sternguard will gate around the battlefield with the librarian and you should have enough points left over for a 10-Assault Marine unit with 2x Flamers and a power fist.

 

Since it's not an Epistolary you might want to find enough points to give the Librarian a plasma pistol. That way when they show up to the firefight via GoI he has something to shoot.

[Miscellaneous Marine]

I find stern guard work 3 ways,

 

1. Sit back with kraken rounds and 2 heavy weapons (NO COMBI"S) and pore on the fire.

2. Objective Takers - Power Fist, Heavy Flamers, Combi Flamers

3. Drop Podding death machines. I regularly run them as Power Fist, 2 x Combi Melta, Melta GUn, Heavy Flamer, in a drop pod, with a librarian running Gate of infinity and Avenger.

 

You can generally take out a troops choice and a tank by combat squadding out of a drop pod.

[Commander Sasha]

I just had my first outing with 10 SG in a pod, 10 Combi-meltas.

 

Pod landed just in front of 3 DE Ravagers, tanks which are a real pain.

Combat squadded, first squad destroyed the first Ravager, 2nd the 2nd. Unfortunately as they were so tightly packed (my bad disembarkation placing), the 3rd Ravager killed all of them, but the locator in the pod enabled my termys to deal with it next round.

 

They didn't make their points back directly, but killing all his heavy support took a lot of pressure off for the rest of the game.

 

This unit is in my list for good now; I may consider mixing CMs and CFs, but at the moment they are all normal Tac models, painted with more Mithril Silver, and yellow/black hazard coloured magazines, to reflect Spec Issue/Melta; if I want anything other than 10 identical guys, I need to re-paint or model!

 

This is how I use mine, I'm very happy, and a big thank-you to several members on this site for input and ideas :)

[Bannus]

I just had my first outing with 10 SG in a pod, 10 Combi-meltas.

 

Pod landed just in front of 3 DE Ravagers, tanks which are a real pain.

Combat squadded, first squad destroyed the first Ravager, 2nd the 2nd. Unfortunately as they were so tightly packed (my bad disembarkation placing), the 3rd Ravager killed all of them, but the locator in the pod enabled my termys to deal with it next round.

 

They didn't make their points back directly, but killing all his heavy support took a lot of pressure off for the rest of the game.

Personally, I think this is very poor employment of this unit - but also the most common.

 

I think that players get so caught up in the combi-weapon options that this unit can have that they think it is an ideal tank hunter squad. True, they do hunt tanks well (as illustrated above) - but then what?

 

I think players will discover the true value of the Sternguard unit if they deploy them for a few games without any upgrades (except for maybe the Sergeant). then you will see what they can do and how they can earn their points....with interest.

 

Their are cheaper and more effective units to hunt tanks so you don't have to deploy your Sternguard....unsupported....behind enemy lines. :)

[Shiodome]

i tend to use sternguard as a small reaction force. 6 sternguard, 1 melta, 1 powerfist, razorback, tl-hb. small enough (and equiped basically enough) that they're never quite a priority target, but point them at a crucial target and they get the job done. I find them particularly good for backfield hunting... taking out all the small support units you face against nearly any opponent. example of the kind of targets i go for with a small squad:

 

Ork Lootas (the ones with guns putting out d3 str7 shots per model)

Tyrandid warriors / zoanthropes (support synapse basically)

eldar rangers

marine devastators or small assault squads

IG heavy weapon teams or veteran teams

 

you get the idea... the kind of targets small in number, but with a specific support task, that if you remove leaves your opponents army lacking in an area. i really LOVE using sternguard this ways, really fits with the precision strikes background of the marines.and sternguard are truly amazing at this job... every army has these support units, but they normally require different approaches to deal with, but sterguard ignore MEQ armour (assault/devastators); ignore cover (rangers); wound on 2+ (orcs/tyranids). and pack a bundle of combat ability to force an opponent to significantly commit to deal with them or risk failing.

[ShinyRhino]

Personally, I think this is very poor employment of this unit - but also the most common.

 

I think that players get so caught up in the combi-weapon options that this unit can have that they think it is an ideal tank hunter squad. True, they do hunt tanks well (as illustrated above) - but then what?

 

I think players will discover the true value of the Sternguard unit if they deploy them for a few games without any upgrades (except for maybe the Sergeant). then you will see what they can do and how they can earn their points....with interest.

 

Their are cheaper and more effective units to hunt tanks so you don't have to deploy your Sternguard....unsupported....behind enemy lines. :)

 

This is my feeling as well. Lots of folks hinge on their podded Sterngaurd with X combiweapons as some sort of godsend "I win" button. The recipe is always "10x Sternguard in Pod with combimeltas."

But Sternguard can do SO much more than suicide drops when completely naked. The fluff if these guys is pure Crimson Fists. Last stand of a few elite units in a defensive posture, which you can pull off very well on the table. Deploy them in some hard cover near your home base, and watch them cut down swathes of the enemy en route.

Combi-spam suicide runs are so...insulting for a squad of veterans!

[Hfran Morkai]

Well they can annoy just about anything, you shoot a Carnifex with enough Hellfire rounds and it will fail some rolls. Same with Plague Marines. Remember they have a thirty inch range with another ammo type! Being able to ignore cover can also be a blessing against say Orks or Tyranids.

 

They're expensive from the start but can deal with pretty much any infantry model relatively well.

 

Funny thing is, once I start my Ultramarines they are going to be a pure drop company with support from 1st Company so they will be podding but will definitely be supported in their role.

[JamesI]

I recently faced 2 drop poding sternguard, in an army with Kantor so they were even scoring. They dropped near each other on the same turn and basically eliminated half my force. Sternguard with few upgrades are still nasty to face.

[Titan87]

I guess my apprehension with using them is:

 

1. They have a 3+ armor save, no invulnerable. In essence they are as squishy as a tac squad for 25 points per model with no "ablative" wounds.

 

2. To be most effective they need to get into Rapid fire range which essentially puts them in range of being charged, a place where they are not at their best (though not bad)

 

3. As said earlier, they seem like the ultimate defensive unit, however even with kantor to make them scoring it seems like a waste for them to sit and hold an objective. (Though when I think about it those 30" rounds sound better...)

 

4. I can't bring myself to use veterans that squishy as a suicide unit, let alone veterans as suicide unit. (This is just not fluffy, though granted it can be effective)

 

Now I love the Ammo, I love the unit and the fluff. I just hesitate to use them in a limited role like objective guarder because they can offer so much more.

[Yotakka]

after reading all of the other comments and tactics i have a best of both worlds solution. how about switching lysander to kahn and gearing one squad with a dp and some combi weapons and a pf while the second is 9 strong and has kahn and a rhino. the dp comes in on one flank and pops 1-2 armored targets ( depending on combat squading or not) then on a 4+ next turn the "naked" ones come in hopefully on that side ( 66% chance) and starts wiping out in fantry/MC/MEQ/ etc.

 

 

this saves you some points by taking kahn instead of lysander as well as giving more tactical flexibility to the rest of your army by alowing them to out flank.

 

How does that sound?