3rd Heavy slot choice

[minigun762]

I'm debating what to take as my 3rd heavy choice for my Undivided army. Role-wise, I want the unit to handle long range anti-tank to support my Melta squads. Here are what I've narrowed it down to (Note: the rest of my army is your basic CSMs/Rhinos/DP and Defilers.)

 

1) Combi-Predator + extra points to spend on the rest of my army.

Pro: The cheapest choice and it will further dilute anti-tank firepower.

Con: Can be shaken or destroyed easier then other choices, most vulnerable to deepstriking Melta death squads

 

2) 3 Obliterators

Pro: Most flexible choice, easily adaptable. Only way to get Plasma Cannons into army (outside Dreads). Most mobility.

Con: Least cost effective long range firepower, vulnerable to insta-death weapons as well as small arms.

 

3) 8 Havocks, 4 Heavies (mix of Autocannons and Missiles), IoCG

Pro: Most durable choice and most long range firepower overall.

Con: Vulnerable to small arms as well as blast weapons. Least mobile option.

[Magnus Thane]

Oblits is the prime choice. Second I'd go for the Havoks, third for the Pred.

[Sangneur]

I'm debating what to take as my 3rd heavy choice for my Undivided army. Role-wise, I want the unit to handle long range anti-tank to support my Melta squads. Here are what I've narrowed it down to (Note: the rest of my army is your basic CSMs/Rhinos/DP and Defilers.)

 

1) Combi-Predator + extra points to spend on the rest of my army.

Pro: The cheapest choice and it will further dilute anti-tank firepower.

Con: Can be shaken or destroyed easier then other choices, most vulnerable to deepstriking Melta death squads

 

2) 3 Obliterators

Pro: Most flexible choice, easily adaptable. Only way to get Plasma Cannons into army (outside Dreads). Most mobility.

Con: Least cost effective long range firepower, vulnerable to insta-death weapons as well as small arms.

 

3) 8 Havocks, 4 Heavies (mix of Autocannons and Missiles), IoCG

Pro: Most durable choice and most long range firepower overall.

Con: Vulnerable to small arms as well as blast weapons. Least mobile option.

 

I'd personally prefer the Oblits.. Expensive as they are, they've got so much more adaptability than the combi-pred, having all those weapons to choose from, and being better in anti tank with 50% more lascannonage, and much better for anti infanty (even termies with their TL/Cannon plasma). They may not have as much firepower as the other options in a given situation, but they HAVE an option for all situations, and are almost always potent. On the mobility side, they can't cover a distance as fast as a tank, and are slightly slower than a group of havocs, but they also fire all weapons when on the move, which'll increase flexibility a bit, and may result in more turns where shooting's possible, or fewer cover saves for the enemy. They have more maneuverability (though less speed) than the other two options which will in turn boost the total damage they do to an agreeable amount over the time of a game, likely comparable to the damage racked up by the other options.

 

On the defensive side of things, they get cover much more easily than the tank, can soak up some shots that may destroy a tank in one hit, laughing at krak missles, and the fact that they have a 2+ save means that they either soak up tonnes of bad AP shots, saving other units pain, or take heavy weapons that would be directed at your tanks, thus mitigating the issue of armour saturation you stated. Fearless means you don't have to purchase an icon of chaos glory, and they're ability to move and fire lets them delay melee combat, pursue targets, or both in whatever order.

 

Finally, the two defilers in your army should be great for taking out MEQs, and even hordes due to their large size blasts, so some lascannonage would be appreciated since the blasts are great, but some finer instruments for vehicular destruction would be appreciated and let the Battle cannons focus on their jobs rather than netting one hit of a tank when they could vapourise an entire unit elsewhere. Naturally Havocs can purchase a couple o' 'em cann'ns but the price puts them at barely less than an obliterattor which includes a fist on each model among other weapons that optimise their effect in situations) so they can fill the niche that the defilers leave open better than the tank by a long shot.

 

The only major deterence against the Oblits. is the lack of wounds to soak up 2+ AP STR 8+ hits, but that's a risk I'm finer with, since they haver invuln. saves and travel have no prohibiting speed reduction for moving through cover.

[Corpse.]

I would suggest a full las predator. If you got melta squads already, you need to take pressure off the marines by hitting things on turn 1. Or rather, take hits for your defilers.

 

If the enemy has some storm bolters, and the other 80% of weapons you may face that can hurt infantry/assault and tie them up. You need armor to back up rhinos and defilers, otherwise its a game of a few shots, two defilers dead and the rhinos sitting in the water without viable long range support.

 

Two TLLC predators, no side sponsons = 3 lascannon shots.

33% miss, x2 = 66% and thats the chance you get to fire another lascannon shot at BS4. The cost? 210. The 3 LC oblits are 225 with the extras of plasma cannons (melta/melee/bolter troops hate when you scatter with 3 templates, might hit defiler/rhino rear armor too if the hole halds on the vehicle). Short range army, and can use the rhinos as cover for the defilers if you want to peck at range against a low firepower army like nids before engaging.

 

The quadlas predator I say is the better choice in this setup. Your rhinos are there to get things in there ASAP, and the lack of heavy slots to spread pairs of oblits out among the table is also taken. So with those preoccupied I think a quadlas predator that stresses the enemies anti tank weapons and if he needs to melee tanks it makes him spread out further with said units when your a mecha army. Old tactics but it works.

 

If you do combi pred I would suggest havocs instead full of 3 missile launchers and a autocannon. Primarily for the ability of 5 str6+ shots can remove 3 heavy weapons teams effectively, hit skimmers(wave serpents) decently and have 3 blasts + 2 shots.

 

Oblits are really good, and spendy, but cannot fit the perfect (or better choice) role among certain styles of armies. Mecha with 2 defilers should use another vehicle for the 3rd HS, IMO.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I run the Oblits, but thats in a slaanesh lash and template spam army. If you do not have lash plasma cannons are signficantly less valuable. And since you said you want it for ranged anti tank, i'd go for one of the other options. I'd lean towards a pred of some sort for armor saturation reasons.

[Cornelias]

assault havocs in a rhino, i never leave home without a squad of these and they have won me more games than probably any other unit i take. 4x meltas, 4x plasma or 4x flamers are all useful depending on your board and adversary etc. :nuke:

[minigun762]

And since you said you want it for ranged anti tank, i'd go for one of the other options. I'd lean towards a pred of some sort for armor saturation reasons.

This was my first thought as well, another piece of armor on the table and this one should be fairly safe since it can hang back at 48" and snipe things. However it just seems like a prime candidate for a Termicide squad but then again, if they're hitting the Predator, they're not hitting my Rhinos or Defilers.

 

assault havocs in a rhino, i never leave home without a squad of these and they have won me more games than probably any other unit i take. 4x meltas, 4x plasma or 4x flamers are all useful depending on your board and adversary etc. :)

 

Interesting idea, however I wonder if it would be better to take Chosen instead. Pay 3 points more for better LD and Outflanking (since they'd probably be in a Rhino).

I wonder how 5 Plasma guns would compare to 2 AutoCannons/2 Missile Launchers against most targets, probably fairly well really.

[Moress]

At first I instantly threw out the pred from the list of possible canidates, but Corpse brings up a very good point.

 

If you do go with oblits though, from personal experience I would suggest getting only two. Three seems like a really big investment for one 3 man unit, also for the price of two, it can cost about as much as a combi pred, but is much more versatile. If your dead set on buying a squad of three oblits, then might I suggest a Land Raider then maybe? For 5 points less, you get an AV14 all around tank, with two TL LC's and a Heavy Bolter. Not only can it snipe targets from 48" away like a las pred, but it's gonna be pretty hard to knock out bar melta guns. You seem to want a fire magnet, and everyone knows there is no bigger fire magnet then a LR :) . Another plus side to taking a heavy support LR is you can reliably have it tank shock an enemy off an objective in the last few turns of the game, it's sheer size will prevent any models from being within 3" of an objective, and better yet, you can spend another 75points for a 5man, bare bone squad of CSM that jsut sit inside the whole game either guarding your home objective, or ready to pounce on the enemies.

 

Although, if you have the point and your taking termiecide, you can have your cake and eat it too :) . You could take the LR as an "elites" choice with those termies, but deploy it at the begining of the game and you can still buy some oblits or a cheap pred.

[minigun762]

If you do go with oblits though, from personal experience I would suggest getting only two. Three seems like a really big investment for one 3 man unit, also for the price of two, it can cost about as much as a combi pred, but is much more versatile.

 

I went for 3 because I ran out of slots for units while I still had some leftover points to play with and a 3rd Obliterator seemed more useful then some Lesser Daemons or a naked CSM squad.

[Cornelias]

assault havocs in a rhino, i never leave home without a squad of these and they have won me more games than probably any other unit i take. 4x meltas, 4x plasma or 4x flamers are all useful depending on your board and adversary etc. :lol:

 

Interesting idea, however I wonder if it would be better to take Chosen instead. Pay 3 points more for better LD and Outflanking (since they'd probably be in a Rhino).

I wonder how 5 Plasma guns would compare to 2 AutoCannons/2 Missile Launchers against most targets, probably fairly well really.

 

yeah good point, i usually use them as havocs due to 3x3 termicide units but i see from your OP your not using any elite slots :P

[Zhukov]

Oblits, even 1 squad of 3 (which is clearly non-optimal) is still way better than those other choices. Reasons? Enough are given in the history of B&C :P Its a bit like beating a dead horse tbh.

[Cornelias]

Oblits, even 1 squad of 3 (which is clearly non-optimal) is still way better than those other choices. Reasons? Enough are given in the history of B&C :lol: Its a bit like beating a dead horse tbh.

 

 

true but there are people out there that shy away from easymode ;)

[Night Lord Dred]

If you read any of the recent Oblits vs. X topics, youll see why Oblits cannot be deemed the best option 100% of the time.

 

Both the other options (havocs and pred) in that list have more firepower and better survivability at long range. You have to ask yourself if you really need a plasma cannon. If not, there is absolutely no reason to take the oblits.

[minigun762]

Both the other options (havocs and pred) in that list have more firepower and better survivability at long range. You have to ask yourself if you really need a plasma cannon. If not, there is absolutely no reason to take the oblits.

 

In this case, the answer would be no. I'm selecting something for long range anti-tank, to kill skimmers and transports primarily. Anything else is just gravy.

 

I'm leaning towards the durability of the Havocks to be honest.

[Brother Amarel]

Oblits, even 1 squad of 3 (which is clearly non-optimal) is still way better than those other choices. Reasons? Enough are given in the history of B&C :P Its a bit like beating a dead horse tbh.

 

 

true but there are people out there that shy away from easymode :)

I'm not convinced that taking a single unit of Oblits can really be classed as "easymode" :).

[Cornelias]

it is the obvious choice thought, mini's OP led me to summarize that he wasn't really looking for oblits or he'd have filled up his other 2 slots with them. so the choice for me was between havocs and a pred :pinch:

[Muzza]

"1) Combi-Predator + extra points to spend on the rest of my army.

Pro: The cheapest choice and it will further dilute anti-tank firepower.

Con: Can be shaken or destroyed easier then other choices, most vulnerable to deepstriking Melta death squads"

 

 

This seems like the best option to me. Have it sit back as far as it can and take out enemy transports\tanks at range. If the enemy does deepstrike anything and kills the pred at least they're (most likely) expensive hard hitting unit will be far away from the rest of your army and therefore useless.

[minigun762]

I suppose to be fair, I should include the option of 2 Termicide squads.

It would be the same cost as the Havocks, but more kill points.

[Lord Doyok]

Take the 130pts Pred. It is the cheapest you have to pay for 2 S9 + 2 S7 Shots. Compares to 3 Oblits (since that is the number you suggested), you have 95 extra points to spend on something else. More units is always better.

 

Just add:

- 5 points -> a Dread with 2DCCW

- 10 points -> a Termicide unit (i'll avoid this though)

- more points -> more shiny stuffs

[Vissah]

I would go for the Oblits, they are just to flexible to leave at home :D

[Brother Nihm]

I'm surprised no one's suggested a Possessed Vindicator.

Two Long Range Pie-plates and one short-medium range makes for great horde smashing/intimidation/firemagnets - while your troops + HQ handle objectives.

Have the Elites (e.g. Termicide) focus on threats to your armour.

[Guest Herald of Desolation]

I'm surprised no one's suggested a Possessed Vindicator.

Two Long Range Pie-plates and one short-medium range makes for great horde smashing/intimidation/firemagnets - while your troops + HQ handle objectives.

Have the Elites (e.g. Termicide) focus on threats to your armour.

 

Nihm, you beat me to it. I read all the way to the bottom only to hear you voice Vidicator love. The Vindicator threat is two fold. One, what it can actually do on the table, pie-plate str 10 and 13 front armor. Two, the psychological threat. More often than not, I have loyalists targetting my Vindicator while more dire threats are manuevering into position.

 

**Grammar Nazi edit**

[Lord Doyok]

I'm surprised no one's suggested a Possessed Vindicator

That is prolly because of this..

Role-wise, I want the unit to handle long range anti-tank to support my Melta squads

[Brother Nihm]

I'm surprised no one's suggested a Possessed Vindicator

That is prolly because of this..

Role-wise, I want the unit to handle long range anti-tank to support my Melta squads

it can handle just that with but 1 turn of movement, provided there's decent terrain on the board, the same terrain that would hinder a long-range unit from performing efficiently (and the same terrain that means the death of armour to fast moving flankers - with meltas :)).

[Possessed Marine]

I personally love my land raider, but it is THE most expensive option, although there is a greater survivability over the predator. If need be, it could be purchased for a termie squad and still have a heavy slot open... have your cake & eat it too!