jadex1 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm trying to put together an army list for my wolves and trying different things out. I'm trying to gather some information to decide what to put in my heavy forces slots. So, my question is about long fangs vs. tanks. What are the benifits and down falls to taking a squad of long fangs over a tank. If that is to broad leave a comment and ill be more specific as to what im doing with my list. Thanks guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Long Fangs die to long range pie plates and as such are dependant upon cover. Tanks can die in a single shot. There is no tank that is not susceptable to this. Both degrade as they take fire... long fangs take fire from lower strength weapons, but have in many ways a better chance to negate the damage they do take. Tanks on the other hand simply require a higher strength weapon to harm them, and so are immune to a number of things. Long Fangs tend to be cheaper because of their vulnerability to small arms fire- example being the tri-las predator. PL+3 LFs with lascannons is 135pts, as opposed to 165 for the predator. One of the lascannons is twin linked though, and hte predator can move and shoot to some extent. On the other hand for 10pts more than the predator you can have 4 lascannons and hit 2 targets with it. I prefer Long Fangs overall, and I prefer them cheap. But tanks will help keep them alive... so long story short: If you footslog alot, take LFs, if you are mounted, take a mixture, heavy on the tanks- itll keep your rhinos alive longer and in turn keep your tanks firing longer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I think long fangs gets you more bang for your buck. It can even defends itself a littlebit in close combat. The thing about tanks is that it can move around and fire in the same round. So if you need an anvil or a spine go for the longfangs, if you want a hammer or a good punch go for a tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Long fangs : they have wounds that dont die in one lucky hit from the enemy , they will most likely always get cover saves from heavy fire , but the again thats only 6 wounds and can easily be killed by small arms fire , but they split fire so they can kill a lot of crap lol tanks : armor , speed and los blocking tactics , then again one lucky shot can take it out and it most likely wont even get a save Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Hengist Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Right now I'm loving my Long fangs because of the fire they can out down and of course the split fire ability which nothing else can do in our codex. I have been fielding 4 Heavy Bolters and a Lascannon in my squad which gives me dual capabilty but most importantly keeps them dead cheap at 135 points. Others around here will tell you they are best used in an Anti tank role or to equip them with 5 missile launchers etc. The set up is down to you the problem for any set up is the same however. If you land a Dawn of War deployment your LF's are going to have to walk onto the board or ride in a transport. This means they obviously wont be able to fire unless Logans running with them but I thinks thats a poor combo. The other down side is that if they have to do this there is a good chance you wontbe able to get into a good firing posistion or into any cover which could be fatal for the unit as I have learned a few times already. A tank remedies this problem as it can move and fire a weapon, it doesnt rely on cover as much and can still throw out some heavy firepower. Me I'm a fna of the old dogs at the minute and they are performing well for me despite the obvious draw backs. EDIT :- By Russ's beard three replies whilst I wrote this! I am slow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189142 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadex1 Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 What about putting Long Fangs into Drop Pods? I tried this with my previous game against nids, and they got slaughter, i didn't even get to use them. I thought about putting them into a transport. Also what is footslog mean? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontline989 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 To move your infantry with no transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189307 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Anonymous Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I'm a big fan of Long Fangs with missile launchers just on principle. Two squads maxed out will only run you 306 (5 Long Fangs + Pack Leader + Ablative Wound Wolf Guard) that will be a thorn in someone's side all game, and it provides for great flexibility. Frag Grenades ruin a horde list's day, and 10 Krak Missiles will even make a Land Raider flinch, but in the meantime can pop transports left and right. Even with their stationary position, they are a must-have in a gunline, footslogger, or mixed-effect list. However, Predators, Vindicators and Land Raiders are great for providing an AV13+ wall for your rhinos in a mechanized list, as well as some mobile anti-tank. The best answer to is view the choices before you in the context of your list or what you want your army to do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 What about putting Long Fangs into Drop Pods? I tried this with my previous game against nids, and they got slaughter, i didn't even get to use them. I thought about putting them into a transport. Also what is footslog mean? Did you DP them onto the field NEAR the Tyranids? Because if so,that was silly. DP them on your side of the table, near terrain, and then run into it during the shooting phase you werent using anyways. Then blow them apart if theres no lictor in the cover :P. If there is, powerfist it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I think i would give this list a try: Wolf Priest: WTN, Saga of the Warrior born 5 Wolf Scouts: Melta, Meltabombs 10 GH: 2x Plasmagun, Fist, Rhino 10 GH: 2x Melta, Fist, Wolfbanner, Rhino 15 BC: 2x Flamer, PW LRC: MM 2x 6 Long Fangs: 2x LasCannon, 3x PlasmaCannon, Razorback TLLC 1750 points total I think the LF packs would give me a good mix of anti-tank and anti-horde firepower. And it´s something that i haven´t tried so far. Normally i prefer tanks, but even an old dog can learn new tricks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madsakre Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I love my long fangs, in 1750+ games i use two packs with 3 ml and 2 lc's each. Damn they kill a lot! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Long Fangs die to long range pie plates and as such are dependant upon cover. It also helps if this cover has several levels over each other. Pieplates can only target 1 level. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189512 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Its long fangs for me! Cheap unit: we're talking 115pts for four missile launchers (basic unit). Suit to purpose: just got a few points left, and want some more bang for your buck? take a mini-unit of longfangs. Split fire: I never rated this before, but, with 40k now being a game of surviveable armour and troops, being able to split fire is extreemly useful! and means you can actually have a multi-purpose shooting unit (that can perform both purposes at once!). Wounds: I would rather take armour saves than roll to penetrate a vehicle, your tank only has to die once... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chodjinn Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I would go for the Long Fangs over a single support tank. Depending on the points available, I would go for a maxed squad, all MLs, in a Razorback with heavy bolters. Or for horde, all HBs and TLLC Razorback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Also keep in mind, if your long fangs get wounds, you're still getting saves, be it armor or cover, and can shoot next turn. If your tank even gets glanced, you aren't shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfrave Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 i always, always run one pack of long fangs, and generally its a pack with 3 plasma cannons and 2 las cannons, i put em in cover, and make them hard to reach (i.e to get them the enemy either has snikrot or is able to muscle threw alot of Greyhunters/bloodclaws) and from that cover i let them eat the enemy. Just last night my Longs fangs killed off a Nob pack trying to foot slog over to bjorn after he blew their truck into tiny little trucky peaces. Plasma is soooo good at removing armour saves and dealing wounds, and if they have heavy tanks, the las cannons can put more then a few of em down <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 How about using long fangs AS tanks... Antique Nova has an interesting army list where he puts a RP and LF in a Rhino to use the fire ports. The tank provides a first line of defense and enough armor to ignore small arms fire while providing limited mobility while firing You could theoretically turn a Rhino into a multipurpose tank that can fire any combination of LC/Missile/HB/Plasma I haven't done much with Rhino firing ports. What are the restrictions regarding moving/firing for troops inside the vehicle? Cruising speed/combat speed limitations etc? *NVM I found the rule on p.66 regarding firing ports. Combat speed required to fire. Viable tactic for Rhinos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2189930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grogugluk Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 After playing about 5 games with new wolves I have to say that long fangs are amazing. For 420 points you can get 15 Missle Shots a turn. Thats amazing. Super efficient use of points and very scary for a whole lot of armies. Add in the LD9 Base the Free Sargent split fire and everything else and I think all of my lists are going to have that. If your meta game has a lot of hordes and Bugs you can run Cheaper HBolter squads for only 345 points for 45Str 5 Shots a turn. Again.. nothing comes close in my eyes in warhammer as far as points to effectiveness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2190138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 *NVM I found the rule on p.66 regarding firing ports. Combat speed required to fire. Viable tactic for Rhinos Did you see the part about how if the rhino moves you count the passengers as moving too? And thus cant fire a heavy weapon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2190499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravelybravesirrobin Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 The survivability issue, as Grey Mage pointed out, is largely based on what else you brought to the table. If you run a mech force then adding more tanks increases the survivability of each other tank in your army. Your opponent only has so much anti-tank weaponry and forcing him to stretch it makes everything tougher. But if you add 1 or 2 tanks into an otherwise footslogging force then they will just die as they become a focus for all the anti-tank your opponent has. Similar logic applies to long fangs but because long fangs can't die to one shot (pie plates excepted and cover helps with that) I give the edge to long fangs. I'd be happier putting fangs into an otherwise mechanised foce than I would adding a predator to a drop pod army. Also as has been mentioned barring running away (or onto the board) Long Fangs will be shooting every turn whilst a pred can be stunned or shaken. They also can't be prevented from moving. But they will lose offensive capability over time as they lose members. Offensively fangs are definitely more bang for your buck. For the cost of a pred anhialator with las-sponsons you can have the same number of lascannons and some missle launchers and what's more use them to engage multiple targets. The main advantage tanks have is mobility but since 5th ed has returned battle tanks to pillbox status you won't be wanting to move your pred all too often and this advantage will mostly come into play during Dawn of War. Please note this is as a comparison to predators mostly. I think both have strengths and weaknesses but overall I would rather take long fangs in the current codex. Vindicators and Whirlwinds have different tactical considerations and abilities that make them worth looking at and making a direct comparison to Long Fangs difficult. e.g. a Vindie has the biggest gun in the whole game, a truly threatening thing that will wipe whole units off the map. Long Fangs can't compete with that. and a whirlwind has the ability to hide, range and the power to negate cover saves making it an excellent tool for thinning hordes finally land raiders don't really bear comparison at all since they are principally an excellent transport that adds some shooting as a bonus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2190519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 How about using long fangs AS tanks... Antique Nova has an interesting army list where he puts a RP and LF in a Rhino to use the fire ports. The unit has merit, I will give him that. Firing both LL and a Las Cannon out of the fire port while being protected from line of sight has its advantages. And even though it smells a bit of powergamming I understand why you would have to run three of them in a list to make it work as Nova's list suggests. Of course you can't move and use the Las Cannon and if you move over 6" you would have to get out to use the rune priest's psy ability. Also if the rhino is shaken/stunned the crew cant' fire and if the rhino blows you have a chance to loose it all with one lucky shot from your enemy. I would rather run my RP with a pack of 10 Gh with WG using a CML and 2 PG or with a pack of 5 LF with attached WG using CML and put the RP in TDA. Both offer better protection and function. Side Note: As we seem to be a mix of nilla and chaos at times, I wish our LF had the autocannon as an option. Also whats up with no Bolt Pistol for the LF, at least give these guys their due in CC. Their old so ya they go from a vet status of 2 attacks to 1 but to loose the 2 CCW bonus as well is harsh. At least we get Counter Charge in this edition eh. Vrox. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2190522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Being so expensive, I never included Long Fangs in my army list with the old codex. However, with their newer, fairer points costs I love them. Of course, I play a footslogging/Drop Pod force so no tanks for me at all, but the Long Fangs are a perfect fit. I currently have a single pack with 1 Lascannon, 2 Plasma Cannon, and 2 Heavy Bolters and they perform excellently. I just bought the plastic Devastator Squad boxed set and a Space Wolf Pack boxed set so I can build a second pack similar to the first. I've even found the Multi Melta to be handy, despite the short range, in helping to protect your backfield from Podding Dreadnoughts and other threats that penetrate your lines. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185161-long-fangs-over-tanks/#findComment-2192081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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