SW Colours- pre/ post hereshy

[Brother Evar]

Just curious about the grey colour change to like an ice blue- grey change. Did Bjorn make the change when he was great wolf? IMO I like the dark grey armour colour of the wolves better. Also was the legion badge Ragnar's company symbol? I have no idea why they didnt have SW in older armour maks with crussade/ hereshey colours/ insignia like in the SM dex.

[Grey Mage]

You want the truth?

 

You Cant handle the truth!

 

Seriously- someone at GW screwed up the paint job and then it became cannon. Either way is perfectly fine and no real *in universe* explanation has truely been given. *Shrugs*.

[Xeenos]

Last time they let color blind joe paint figs again, poor joe..

[Night Runner]

Another strange thing is that only the Traitor legions changed colour scheme, while the loyalists retained their original schemes (even though some chapters changed certain patterns), except the Space Wolves. I would agree with Grey Mage, probably someone at GW ordered too much blue-grey!

[jester262]

you could probably chalk it up to space wolves being space wolves again.

someone more than likely lost a bet during a drinking contest.

[mike208]

Do you have pictures of the old color space wolves? I saw Dom Murrays space wolves on the games workshop sample armies. I love the dark grey color he used. I really want to paint mine like that. Is that the pre hersey color? Any ideas what color/mixture it is?

[Ominous Anonymous]

The Dark Angels changed their scheme from Black to Dark Green to represent the forests of Caliban, perhaps the Space Wolves did something similar to represent Fenris?

[Oldenhaller]

just trying to think if there was anything in the Index Astartes article - I remember it having both pre-and post heresy colour shemes there.

 

Will see if I can dig it out and have a ganders

 

~O

[Hfran Morkai]

Why is it even called Space Wolf Grey? Definitely not grey in my book.

[Night Runner]

The Dark Angels changed their scheme from Black to Dark Green to represent the forests of Caliban, perhaps the Space Wolves did something similar to represent Fenris?

 

Yep, you're 100% right. Forgot all about the Dweeb Angels. But the colour change with the SW has no fluff base. Kudos

[Valerian]

just trying to think if there was anything in the Index Astartes article - I remember it having both pre-and post heresy colour shemes there.

 

Will see if I can dig it out and have a ganders

 

~O

 

Someone mentioned once that pre/post Heresy paint schemes are discussed in the Index Astartes Volume I article on the Space Wolves. I've not seen this myself, so if you do find it, please post a quote from the relevant passage. Unless there is something in that article then there has never been anything published that states that there is an actual fluff-based change in the paint scheme, leaving us with with nothing more than "paint your Wolves in some shade of Grey.". Unlike the Dark Angels, whose color was changed from Black to Dark Green in the background material, the Wolves only "changed" because an 'Eavy Metal artist chose to do it that way back in the early '90's.

 

Valerian

[Vodunius]

Theres no discussion of colours in the IA article, but the example pre-heresy scheme is in codex grey as was the studios scheme for the 13th Great Company. Most of the Horus Heresy CCG/Artbooks had Space Wolves in codex grey armour.

 

Seriously- someone at GW screwed up the paint job and then it became cannon.

 

I can't believe it was a screw-up, if they'd have just changed the grey then yes, but they didn't - they retconned from a codex chapter in codex grey armour with codex markings to a non-codex chapter in space wolf grey armour with great company and pack markings in one fell swoop. Admittedly the first Ragnar Blackmane was painted up in codex grey, but aledgedly he was mean't to be Leman Russ and it was changed at the last minute (which explains why he stole Leman Russes personal heraldry)

[Grey Mage]

Seriously- someone at GW screwed up the paint job and then it became cannon.

 

I can't believe it was a screw-up, if they'd have just changed the grey then yes, but they didn't - they retconned from a codex chapter in codex grey armour with codex markings to a non-codex chapter in space wolf grey armour with great company and pack markings in one fell swoop. Admittedly the first Ragnar Blackmane was painted up in codex grey, but aledgedly he was mean't to be Leman Russ and it was changed at the last minute (which explains why he stole Leman Russes personal heraldry)

*shrugs* I can. Because I have the IA article showing both colors on it, and because when the 13nth company came out they were codex grey, not sw grey.

 

If it had been a true retcon neither of those things would have happened.

[Ullr Direfang]

Do you have pictures of the old color space wolves? I saw Dom Murrays space wolves on the games workshop sample armies. I love the dark grey color he used. I really want to paint mine like that. Is that the pre hersey color? Any ideas what color/mixture it is?

this is my take on pre-heresy colors red and dark grey.

and to about the chapter symbol verses ragnar's company's symbol: i believe that the "wolf that stalks between the stars" can kind of be seen on the vindicator on page 79 of the C:SW and ragnar's can be seen on the land raider on page 78. slight differences.

[Vodunius]

*shrugs* I can. Because I have the IA article showing both colors on it, and because when the 13nth company came out they were codex grey, not sw grey.

 

If it had been a true retcon neither of those things would have happened.

 

Yes I'm aware of both of those facts, I even mentioned them before you did.. Just because almost a decade later the IA artist decided to homage the original scheme for the pre-heresy scheme and it stuck does not mean the original change was a cockup.

[Valerian]

Do you have pictures of the old color space wolves? I saw Dom Murrays space wolves on the games workshop sample armies. I love the dark grey color he used. I really want to paint mine like that. Is that the pre hersey color? Any ideas what color/mixture it is?

this is my take on pre-heresy colors red and dark grey.

and to about the chapter symbol verses ragnar's company's symbol: i believe that the "wolf that stalks between the stars" can kind of be seen on the vindicator on page 79 of the C:SW and ragnar's can be seen on the land raider on page 78. slight differences.

He was talking about the original Chapter symbol, way before there ever was a Wolf that Stalks Between the Stars. Ragnar's Great Company basically inhereted the original Space Wolves chapter symbol, which was a Wolf's head profile (often in Red), back when the Wolves were no different than any other Marine chapter.

V

[Wolf Guard Dan]

just trying to think if there was anything in the Index Astartes article - I remember it having both pre-and post heresy colour shemes there.

 

Will see if I can dig it out and have a ganders

 

~O

 

Someone mentioned once that pre/post Heresy paint schemes are discussed in the Index Astartes Volume I article on the Space Wolves. I've not seen this myself, so if you do find it, please post a quote from the relevant passage. Unless there is something in that article then there has never been anything published that states that there is an actual fluff-based change in the paint scheme, leaving us with with nothing more than "paint your Wolves in some shade of Grey.". Unlike the Dark Angels, whose color was changed from Black to Dark Green in the background material, the Wolves only "changed" because an 'Eavy Metal artist chose to do it that way back in the early '90's.

 

Valerian

 

My view is that they changed the DA and SW colors from Black and Grey respictively because from an artists point of view painting grey and black is not very exciting. Guys like the 'Eavy Metal team have talent they want to show it off. They just did a better job transitioning the DA color change than the SW color change.

Plus DA highlighted their black armor in DA green already. Maybe a (an?) 'eavy metal guy painted one up in DA and liked it.

This is my reasoning for just these two examples. Obviously the Black Legion switched to black and Black Templars are black so my assumption could be wrong.

[Silverwolf]

There was a discussion on this some time back, though it would probably be a long way back in the archives by now.

 

Long story short, the end reasoning was that there was no reason for the change in colour scheme. No base in fluff, nothing written. The only reason that grey/dark grey became seen as pre-heresy, while the more blue/blue-grey schemes became views as more modern schemes, was to do with a couple of articles in white dwarf labeled as pre-heresy wolves, and about the 13th Company (which would obviously still be wearing their pre-heresy colours).

 

All this comes down to is artist impressions from one-two people who work for White Dwarf, and those then being accepted as "pre-heresy".

 

Realistically, if you acctually read the fluff, every Great Wolf Company has it's own personal colour schemes and variances in how they do things, because each new Wolf Lord brings his own changes to the company when he rises to the position of Great Wolf. Hence why we don't have more of a set scheme in colour like the Blood Angels, or Ultramarines, and why you see such a wide diversity of colour schemes and markings. It all comes down to the personal choices of your company's wolf lord... so you.

 

As long as you stick within the "accepted" bounds of colouring (Which is basically anything between a sky-blue or storm-grey colouration) then it can be considered a Space Wolf colour scheme. There is no true pre-heresy and post-heresy scheme.

 

Personally I've used both, and prefer the darker grey schemes, to me they just make my wolves look more gritty and menacing, which is how I picture Space Wolves in my head.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Remember also that the Space Wolves Chapter is not the Space Wolves Legion. After the Heresy (and with Russ's reluctant consent) the original Legion was broken down into the Space Wolves Chapter and the Wolf Brothers Chapter.

 

Although in general the Chapter bearing the Legion's name kept its heraldry (as in the case of Ultramarines) some didn't; the Dark Angels are another example of a Chapter that diverged from the parent legion's colour scheme.

 

The 13th Company are the last remnant of the Space Wolves Legion and as such they still wear the original colour scheme. Our Chapter doesn't.

[Wolf Lord Arrnulf]

I know we are getting off topic here, but Leman Russ did agree to cut the legion down to chapters. Weren't some of them known as the lost Chapters, taking their Battle Barges and fighting on their own? I forget.. too much fluff around, i gotta sift through all my books

[Night Runner]

I know we are getting off topic here, but Leman Russ did agree to cut the legion down to chapters. Weren't some of them known as the lost Chapters, taking their Battle Barges and fighting on their own? I forget.. too much fluff around, i gotta sift through all my books

 

No, you,re wrong here mate. The SW legion was only divided into two, SW and Wolf Brothers. The lost companies (not lost chapters) came around later during the 10,000 year history of the SW Chapter. Except for the 13th which was lost after Russ sent them on their mission into the Eye of Terror. :D

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I know we are getting off topic here, but Leman Russ did agree to cut the legion down to chapters. Weren't some of them known as the lost Chapters, taking their Battle Barges and fighting on their own? I forget.. too much fluff around, i gotta sift through all my books

 

Officially, Russ made a single chapter from the SW legions, the WOlf Brothers. The Wolf Brothers quickly failed due to genetic problems, and the High Lords, perhaps thinking this is the start of many such failed chapters, didnt push Russ into making another chapter.

 

The the Space Wolves were spilt into 1 chapter, and had their Legion strength. The extra men from the old legion strength just magically disapeer, or were written off by GW as combat losses (which i always thought was bull, for if the pansy blue-boys can split into 25 chapters after the Heresy and Scouring, i dont see how such a talent warlord like Russ could lose so many guys).

 

My unofficial opinion is that the SW still stand at Legion strength (if not exactly legion strenght, much much greater than Chapter strenght. say maybe 1--15k), but have many, many "lost companies" throughout the Imperium to hide this from the Inquisition.

 

WLK

[Ullr Direfang]

He was talking about the original Chapter symbol, way before there ever was a Wolf that Stalks Between the Stars. Ragnar's Great Company basically inhereted the original Space Wolves chapter symbol, which was a Wolf's head profile (often in Red), back when the Wolves were no different than any other Marine chapter.

 

V

my bad.... probably should of read it better.

[Valerian]

The 13th Company are the last remnant of the Space Wolves Legion and as such they still wear the original colour scheme. Our Chapter doesn't.

 

Freman,

 

I think you've missed the point of what most of us are saying: there is no official preheresy (or Legion color as you called it) or post heresy (or Chapter color as you called it). There is only the pre-1992 color, in which the GW artists painted all of their Space Wolves plain Grey. They were "regular Marines" back then, when all Marines, regardless of Chapter used the same rules and army list. The use of this color had nothing to do with the heresy, Legion, or 40k universe imaginary timeline. Late in the Rogue Trader era, GW decided to distinguish the Space Wolves from other Marines and gave them their own new background material, making them the feral Viking/barbarian warriors we now know them as in White Dwarf 156 (Dec 1992), and a new army list in White Dwarf 157 (Jan 1993). With the new image/theme for the Space Wolves came some new metal models, and a fresh new 'Eavy Metal team paint job. Somewhat surprisingly, the new studio army was painted in the "ice-blue/grey" color scheme. Again, this had nothing to do with the heresy, the Legion vice Chapter, or the 40k timeline. It was nothing more than the artist(s) choosing to represent the models in a new color for the new image the were trying to portray; the new color probably was thought to better mesh with the icy Death World of Fenris.

 

This new scheme caught on, as it was seen to be "official". Unlike the change in the Dark Angels paint scheme from Black to Dark Green, there never was a background/fluff-based explanation for the change.

 

With the advent of the 13th Company army list in the Eye of Terror Supplement, many years later, the artist(s) responsible for painting their new models, for whatever reason, decided to paint them in the old-school grey color that all Space Wolves used to be in the late 80's and first couple of years of the 90's. No one knows why they did that, but perhaps the artists felt that the darker colors better represented the force that had been fighting in the Eye of Terror for 10,000 year, and that had a much darker side to them than the rest of the Space Wolves.

 

It was only at this point, with the emergence of the new Grey 13th Company, that players began to draw the conclusion that there was an official preheresy color (Grey) and post-Heresy color ((ice-blue/grey).

[Brother Amarel]

My view is that they changed the DA and SW colors from Black and Grey respictively because from an artists point of view painting grey and black is not very exciting. Guys like the 'Eavy Metal team have talent they want to show it off. They just did a better job transitioning the DA color change than the SW color change.

Plus DA highlighted their black armor in DA green already. Maybe a (an?) 'eavy metal guy painted one up in DA and liked it.

This is my reasoning for just these two examples. Obviously the Black Legion switched to black and Black Templars are black so my assumption could be wrong.

Also for photographic reasons - some colours look better in magazine & book pages, than others. As a slight aside, DA's weren't highlighted in green before the sudden switch in colour, they were black with no defined highlight colour (most people picked grey) and the chapter badge was red rather than white.

 

One further point is that the colour of Space Wolf Grey has changed over the years - I still have a pot from the original release and it's definitely grey (most similar to the current fortress grey).