Quick Drop Pod Question

[Valerian]

True line of sight- I dont open my drop pods, and the ork players dont open their battle wagons. Just because its open topped doesnt mean my opponent gets to see through it, ever.

People want to complain, fine, but show me a RAW argument for it. You wont. And if you want to try house ruling then we can shoot through rhino hatches, Landraiders, battlewagons, etc.... because after all, those could be in an "open" position.

Seems I struck a nerve somehow; you must catch flak from others on this issue. However, your explanation seems reasonable to me. Also keeps things a lot less complicated with my resin Pods (which I also don't have to paint the insides of). Lastly, actually blocking LOS, instead of just granting a Cover Save, makes them even more useful in shaping the battle.

I feel incredibly affronted when someone "demands" to be able to shoot through my drop pods. I wont change them during the game, it blocks my LOS too.

 

Yes, but I only did that with his DP, because that is how we had played them with mine (2 of mine came in Turn 1 due to DP Assault; the Blood Angels don't have that rule so his DP came down turn 3).

Lastly- its an open topped vehicle, so dont try any BS about how they cant deploy out of them either- again, orks can jump out of the front of a truck with a 2" engine block, my guys can go out the hatches of their DP.

 

Hmmm, where did this come from? I didn't say anything about not letting him deploy. Or, maybe you are saying that others have said that you can't deploy if you don't drop your ramps and open up the model.

 

Thanks for the feedback GM.

 

V

[Bobman]

7 GH Melta Standard, Arjac, Wolf Lord BP/FB BoR SoB, Drop Pod.

Drop them right in front of your enemies LR so you block the access ramp the best you can, remember you have to be at least 1" away. If Arjac or the melta gun are able to blow the LR with a Wrecked result, you just killed off everything inside if they are in TDA or they can only get about 4 out if they are in PA. Don't forget the Arjac is AP1.

 

This is my DP force and I bring an empty Drop Pod in case my opponent deploys in reserves or is a total DP force.

 

Vrox

 

 

In war there is no Mr. Nice guy. plus if I fail to blow the Land Raider, I get unloaded on by both the Land Raider and all those inside, so it could go very wrong and usually does.

Actually you can get atleast three TDA out of one side hatch. You have to cover ALL the exits and explode it.

 

Actually you'd have to surround all the vehicle and not just the hatches to kill everything inside. If they can't deploy from the hatches they can deploy anywhere 2" from a destroyed vehicle.

 

 

On the DP topic mine is resin and glued shut (cause it was a ****** to try and make hinged) and with true LOS it blocks. I agree it doesn't say anywhere you have to open the hatches. Although if I had a plastic one I would.

[Schertenleib]

The understanding I have is this:

 

Ramps down grants cover save and allows the drop pods weapons free fields of fire. Ramps up blocks line of sight but prevents the drop pods weapon systems from firing. You can also deploy the pod with any combination of ramps up or down.

 

IE: I can drop the pod with the ramps up (facing the Long Fangs) blocking line of sight, but my storm bolter could not then fire at them.

[Grey Mage]

True line of sight- I dont open my drop pods, and the ork players dont open their battle wagons. Just because its open topped doesnt mean my opponent gets to see through it, ever.

People want to complain, fine, but show me a RAW argument for it. You wont. And if you want to try house ruling then we can shoot through rhino hatches, Landraiders, battlewagons, etc.... because after all, those could be in an "open" position.

Seems I struck a nerve somehow; you must catch flak from others on this issue. However, your explanation seems reasonable to me. Also keeps things a lot less complicated with my resin Pods (which I also don't have to paint the insides of). Lastly, actually blocking LOS, instead of just granting a Cover Save, makes them even more useful in shaping the battle.

I feel incredibly affronted when someone "demands" to be able to shoot through my drop pods. I wont change them during the game, it blocks my LOS too.

 

Yes, but I only did that with his DP, because that is how we had played them with mine (2 of mine came in Turn 1 due to DP Assault; the Blood Angels don't have that rule so his DP came down turn 3).

Lastly- its an open topped vehicle, so dont try any BS about how they cant deploy out of them either- again, orks can jump out of the front of a truck with a 2" engine block, my guys can go out the hatches of their DP.

 

Hmmm, where did this come from? I didn't say anything about not letting him deploy. Or, maybe you are saying that others have said that you can't deploy if you don't drop your ramps and open up the model.

 

Thanks for the feedback GM.

 

V

1) Yes, you struck a bit of a nerve. Some of the newer players have accused me of cheating because of this issue, but havent been able to give me any RAW just a "the ramps come down for a reason". I hate being called a cheater, its demeaning and offensive- Id rather be called an :P. Especially when its just so they can shoot through my pod at the squad on the other side!

2)I have no problem with how you played it, any group can do as they like, I was just stating my personel experiances.... like you said, this struck a nerve. Sorry.

3) Another statement ive heard is "Well if the hatches arent open how do they get out huh?" though again... no one makes you get your models through the hatch of a rhino... and so I state the open topped rules for disembarking, as a DP is open topped.

 

Stormbolters and Deathwind missile launchers require LOS... and for sanities sake I model them on top of one of the fins. Feel free to use whatever ruling or modeling you feel is appropos.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

Hi GM,

 

Agreed that it's not RAW, but I'm surprised that you'd pull this sort of stunt.

 

It just doesn't sit with the common sense and general SW style you display elsewhere.

 

If someone pulled it on me then I don't think that I would be too keen to play them again. Whatever the ins and outs, it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Regards,

[Grey Mage]

Hi GM,

 

Agreed that it's not RAW, but I'm surprised that you'd pull this sort of stunt.

 

It just doesn't sit with the common sense and general SW style you display elsewhere.

 

If someone pulled it on me then I don't think that I would be too keen to play them again. Whatever the ins and outs, it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Regards,

I dont see it as a stunt.

 

I dont feel that I should have to paint the enteriors in order to enter a GW tournament. So I glued my DPs shut. Then, when I first threw down 5 of them in a game I was jumped on by a group of rude individuals who accused me of cheating and powergaming in a friendly match while going off about how non-sensical it was.

 

So after asking them to calm the heck down I read the rules... and found their arguments made little to no sense.

 

What happens if the hatches cant open because of how its placed? Do they block LOS then? Can I still deploy out the side? What if it just leans out a few inches and rests on a building? Can I walk up that ramp or is that considered being on the vehicle and thus illegal? What happens to LOS if you put them on a thick plasticard base with a nice impact crater that raises the model up about 1/8 of an inch, do you assume LOS is 1/8 more than it would be, and can you tell at a glance how much of the modelyou could see? What if its literally impossible to deploy a full squad of 12 around the pod without placing any of them on the hatches wich is techincally illegal since two models cant take up the same space.

 

No. Its unnessecairily complicated to no purpose.

 

A stunt would be one of those people who tries to deploy off the hatches, or who opens and closes the doors at will changing LOS by moving an immobile vehicle. I dont support those actions, I dont see any way the rules do either.

 

So I ask you- why should I allow people to fire through things they cant see through? And why do you feel this is a "stunt"? Ive always found your opinion to be valuable, and Id like more from you.

[Durfast Spiritwolf]

I agree that DPs are problematic.

 

Vaguely I recall that originally in the fluff the doors were supposed to be blown off rather than lower, but don't have anything to hand to back that up and it is way out of date now anyway.

 

However, I strongly feel that if anything is done to exploit a gap in the rules it is very suspect. I understand that this is not your motive, but it may place you on questionable ground.

 

The difficulty here for me is that keeping the doors closed but letting troops deploy and weapons fire provides someone with an advantage with regards to LOS. I do not believe that this is the intended use of DPs, but nothing in RAW prohibits it. I would not shout and sulk at someone who did, but I would ask them about it and if not convinced by their motives, considering carefully before playing them again.

 

Here's my thinking:

 

The doors on both the Forge World and Citadel DPs are designed to open and, once it has landed (based on GW photos of games in progress etc) the doors should be open. This is what makes it open topped. As an aside, I'd understood that, like vehicles, it is the hull which counts for disembarking rather than the size or position of ramps etc. So, just like with LR's assault ramps, one can place figures on the ramps as if they are in the open etc.

 

Unlike vehicles, however, the difference on LOS by keeping the doors closed is quite marked. I understand your example with opening and closing the ramps, but believe that keeping them closed, blocking LOS, but letting weapons fire/troops disembark is much the same sort of thing.

 

I can see how someone throwing accusations at you would be deeply insulting and have seen DPs deployed to block routes, provide cover and in all sorts of ways beyond the simple delivery of troops. Then again players regularly use Rhinos the same way but armoured vehicles aren't designed to park with all their doors open in the way DPs are - I believe.

 

Perhaps, 'stunt' was a little harsh and I apologise if my use of it caused you any offence, but it is an example of play I would never encourage among friends - even those I have not met, such as yourself :D

[Grey Mage]

Note- I dont fire the weapons on closed drop pods, I have one with a stormbolter modeled outside and it fires in its own limited arc. I do let troops disembark obviously. It is frustrating all around...

 

Thankfully my group of players is fairly laid back so it doesnt come up in my normal games. But I will think on what youve said, as it continues to come up off and on at tournaments.