Titan87 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Okay, so I love dreadnoughts, and have done the drop pod dread/suicide dread. It works, no dispute, no argument. it often works to the level of game breaking. Okay now that that is out of my system. I'm looking to use Dreads without the Pods because I don't really like suicide units. So I was wondering if any of you veterans had advice on how to use Dreadnoughts effectively when the aren't being fitted as Long Range Support Dreds, or suicide Dreads. Right now my idea was to take 2x Ironclads with dual heavy flamers. They would each escort and defend an 10-man Tac squad in Rhino. Advice and thought appreciated, Thanks in advance, Titan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycroft Holmes Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 When I run a walking Dread I like them to have the TLinked Las and Heavy Flamer. It's a consistent str 9 hit, it scares 4+ save units with the Heavy flamer and MC/Vehicles/Other walkers are afraid of the str 10 Power fist. A cheaper version is to just keep the assault cannon. This version lost some teeth in the 4rth to 5th edition move, but it still has it's uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 If you want to take a Footslogging non-GunDread, then the best place to look is probably a cheap multi-purpose standard model, even the old tried and true AssCannnon/DCCW will do a good job. Since you're just walking, I personally would take a gun and DCCW to handle whatever and I'd leave the Heavy Flamer at home, since I don't trust being able to use it on a walking model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giga Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I occasionally run a venerable dreadnought with extra armor and heavy flamer. Comes out at 190 pts. Doesn't do much, really, but tends to draw a lot of fire and the threat of it being there usually gets people to shoot at it a lot. I think they're a good support for advancing rhinos, as they draw anti-tank fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I want to try a half-rifleman... Assault Cannon and TLAutocannon. Still cheap, but I think a little more flexible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Okay, so I love dreadnoughts, and have done the drop pod dread/suicide dread. It works, no dispute, no argument. it often works to the level of game breaking. Okay now that that is out of my system. I'm looking to use Dreads without the Pods because I don't really like suicide units. So I was wondering if any of you veterans had advice on how to use Dreadnoughts effectively when the aren't being fitted as Long Range Support Dreds, or suicide Dreads. Right now my idea was to take 2x Ironclads with dual heavy flamers. They would each escort and defend an 10-man Tac squad in Rhino. Advice and thought appreciated, Thanks in advance, Titan Yeah... just take a regular Dreadnaught, give it the weapon of your choice, optionally a heavy flamer, and extra armor. Walk them forward, firing as you go. Assault once you hit the enemy lines. Use them on the flanks as a strong anchor unit, or alternatively send them in as a second wave on the middle to support a major push. Always support them with infantry and focus fire- dreads are impressive, but properly supported they are devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversmith82 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 No love for Plasma cannons? No risk of overheat, great vs infantry, good vs transports, good range. Plasma Cannon, DCCW/HF. Advance alongside a combat squad in a razorback sounds lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserstole20 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 No love for Plasma cannons? No risk of overheat, great vs infantry, good vs transports, good range. Plasma Cannon, DCCW/HF. Advance alongside a combat squad in a razorback sounds lovely. PC/DCCW/HF is my standard build. If I don't have the points I'll drop the PC for a multi-melta. Either combo works great in support of rhinos/razorbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Why does everyone take the Heavy Flamer? Sure its only 10 points, but how often do you really get a chance to use a template weapon while walking up the board? Atleast with the Storm Bolter, you can be targetting things out from 3x the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I make use of 2 venerable dreads as flank defence, both with AsC, one has a SB and one with HF and both take extra armour. Sure 390 points but it's a solid flank from 2 models, not too bad. As a note the HF is actually of some use on the offensive and defensive role, the enemy has to take you own plus the weapon that against MEQs woulds on 3s and can hit far more (in comparison to the SB which has a total hitting and wounding of 2 if your lucky). I may one day reform the two into their proper combo (Ventris with DCCW/HF and AsC while kayvaan takes ML and TLLC) however til that day they will march together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Why does everyone take the Heavy Flamer?Sure its only 10 points, but how often do you really get a chance to use a template weapon while walking up the board? Atleast with the Storm Bolter, you can be targetting things out from 3x the distance. Against orks? About twice a game. Basicly its because the stormbolter wont be effective against most of the things I shoot the Dread at anyways, while the Heavy Flamer can fulfill an entirely different role- Ill throw a HF on a Lascannon Dread, allowing it to get a good shot off at infantry in cover that Im not keen on assaulting. Sure, I wont use it every turn like the Lascannon, but it only has to kill 2 orks to make its points back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserstole20 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 The HF is a great upgrade for not many points. A dread is an all-around unit - a little CC, a little shooty. The storm bolter does very little IMO to improve the ranged capabilities while the HF before a charge into CC usually makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 My recommendation is to make footslogging Dreads into Venerables. I use a pair of Ven Dreads, one with TLLC/DCCW+HF, and one with AssCan/DCCW+HF. The venerable rerolls are GOLD for walking Dreads, so that one random Krak missile doesn't sink you. I always take the heavy flamer because a Stormbolter is totally useless. I manage to fire it a couple times a game, to pretty good effect. The heavy flamer is worth its points just as a deterrent. Its presence makes your opponent skirt your Dreads when aiming for a squishier target. Plus, oftentimes your opponent forgets its there, since it's such a small detail on the model. I find that mob army players get so focused on moving their tons of models into attack range that they forget about the heavy flamer, or misjudge how far I can fire it. Ironclads are really not the best footslogger Dreads, because they lack the long-range fire you need en-route to the fight. The longest range they can get is the Hurricane bolter, IIRC. Not much help, really. The Autocannon, lascannon, and plasma cannon of the standard and Venerable Dreads are far more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan87 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 I like the idea of upgrading to Venerables, but looking at an Assault cannon, heavy flamer, Extra Armor version runs about 200 points. 220 for a lascannon. that is alot of points, is it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I like the idea of upgrading to Venerables, but looking at an Assault cannon, heavy flamer, Extra Armor version runs about 200 points. 220 for a lascannon. that is alot of points, is it worth it? To me, it's really not, but different strokes for different folks. For those kind of points, I'd rather shell out a few more points and either get two Dreadnoughts or even a LR of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I like the idea of upgrading to Venerables, but looking at an Assault cannon, heavy flamer, Extra Armor version runs about 200 points. 220 for a lascannon. that is alot of points, is it worth it? I wouldn't pay for the Extra Armor, myself. The benefits of a Venerable Dread over a normal Dread are better BS/WS, and the Venerable rule. The BS 5 makes any weapon that's twin-linked a near-guarantee that you'll hit. The WS5 makes it easier for you to smack things in the head, but won't help you avoid hits in return. The Venerable rule is the BIG pump though. Should an opponent get through your armor, you can make them reroll any result you like. I only bother when a hit would wreck or explode my Dreads. The range of my weapon loadouts makes Immobilized no huge deal. Sure, your opponent could get yet another Wreck/Explode on the reroll, but they're more likely (from pure math, anyways) to get something that won't kill the Dread outright. To me, that's worth the extra points over a standard Dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan87 Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 So if I did use venerables what makes the best use of that BS4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 So if I did use venerables what makes the best use of that BS4 I'd go for the Assault Cannon or the PC personally... With non twin-linked weapons, you're reducing your misses from 33% to 17%, basically gaining 16% more hits. Twin-linked weapons go from missing 11% to about 3%, gaining only 8% more hits. That means the Assault Cannon benefits more (when in range) than a TLLC or TLAutoCannon. Likewise, the PC scatters an inch less which is always nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 So if I did use venerables what makes the best use of that BS4 I'd go for the Assault Cannon or the PC personally... I agree with Gornall, but I'd add the Multi-Melta to that list for the same reason. Basically if its TL'd, the BS5 is less of an upgrade then if its not. Luckily the Assault Cannon and Plasma Cannon loadouts are very flexible all purpose ones that match the nature of the Dread as a hybrid shooty/assault unit well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversmith82 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Hmmm... I do have a FW venerable dread model with everything but autocannons magnetized... I may just have to begin using him on escort duty for razorbacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 One of the other reasons I use a pair of Venerables instead of a trio fo standard Dreads is Annihilation missions. I'm historically BAD in the killpoint arena. Whatever I can do to make a unit survive until the end of a game is good with me, and Venerables are rock-hard in that respect. Our local shop also uses a composition score for tourneys, so a pair of Elites nets me an extra point each round, where three would not. But that's essentially a house-rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversmith82 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sooo... what honestly do you think is the best venerable? That BS5 makes a strong case for the missile launcher as it isn't twin linked/doesn't get twin linked by Vulkan. However I do agree that the whole point of the Venerable is the "hard to kill" rule. There are enough options for vanilla dreads to pretty much insure that they hit (twin linking/vulkan/template etc...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sooo... what honestly do you think is the best venerable? Plasma Cannon/DCCW/Heavy Flamer (since everyone seems to have great luck with it) or Assault Cannon/DCCW/Heavy Flamer or Multi-Melta/DCCW/Heavy Flamer All of these loadouts are nice multi-purpose ones that can handle a variety of situations and make for a good walking support unit to back up your Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Adding the ML loses your benefit of WS5. Not worth it IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miscellaneous Marine Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I love dreads, I have 8. There are 2 ways I use them 1. Fire Base - Las cannons, Auto Cannons, Plasma Cannons, Missiles - exactly what you don't want. 2. Assault dreads with auto cannons, multi melta's heavy Flamers How do you get them into combat? Screen them Run them up with your rhinos, take advantage of smoke and cover. The best way to keep a unit alive is to give them something else they need to deal with like drop podding stern guard, vindicators or terminators. Assault cannons are good, Plasma cannons are better, heavy flamers are never a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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