Pre-Purchase Jitters

[Zipline]

I’m looking to start an Inquisition force in the very near future, and as part of that I’ve been browsing this site for the last week or so. I’ve read most of the guides, studied the unit lists, listened to opinions, et cetera, and now I’m on the brink of a purchase. Before I do that though, I have a few questions of my own. I’m planning on starting with 1,000-ish pts of DH, including an Inquisitor Lord w/2x mystics, psycannon servitors, various other henchmen in Land Raider Crusader, several Inquisitorial Chimeras with melta ISTs, a Callidus and a Valkyrie + ISTs.

 

First, are my Chimeras effective at all for delivering IST tank busters? I realize that Rhinos are cheaper and more effective than Chimeras, but I’ll only be playing friendly games and local non-GW tournaments and I don’t want to come off as powergamer-ish. Plus I like the idea of Chimeras in Inquisitorial use better.

 

Second, I read that I should have a unit of GKTs in my LRC to deal with melee threats, but since I don’t want to take any Knights, would a melee inquisitor work? I was thinking of using Hector Rex from the Imperial Armour books. The problem I have with that is that any psycannons or other long-ranged weapons I put in the squad will go to waste, since the LRC has no fire points.

 

Next, in order to take a Valkyrie I’ve had to rely on the Imperial Armour books and their updates, which may or may not be “official” or legal in some places. Have you had any problems using these updates? Whether you have or not, I’m interested in hearing what you think of these books. Worth using the updated rules?

 

Last, what do I use the Valkyrie for? I honestly have not looked at the rules and chose it purely for the image of ISTs fastroping from the sky. Is it viable? What kind of tactics should I be looking at?

[Grey Mage]

Umm... well, sounds like what you want to do, from a rules standpoint, is have an IG army with an allied inquisitor.

 

Especially since you cant take a GK landraider without taking a GK hero.

[number6]

I'm not really up on the Imperial Armour rules, so from the viewpoint of just the available codex rules, you won't be able to build your army using all of your unit preferences. (Use of IA rules vary widely. In my own game group, we usually don't allow them at all, but some leagues or one-off games or tournaments do allow them from time to time.)

 

You can't get land raider crusaders without taking at least a GK Hero, as LRCs are GK vehicles only. (And you don't really want to be stuck with the Inquisition dedicated land raider transport because RAW says, stupidly, that you don't get the Assault Vehicle rule nor the Machine Spirit rule.)

 

There is also no way to get a Valkyrie or Vendetta into a base DH army. As previously mentioned, you'd have to build a base IG army and then ally in Inquisitorial units. In all honesty, if you're going to give up Grey Knights, this is what you should do. However, you won't be able to discuss such an army on this forum. :D

 

As for whether ISTs should use Chimeras or Rhinos, your analysis is spot on. Melta ISTs work best in Rhinos. However, if you're inducting IG, you can let some ISTs borrow one of the IG Chimeras. Same points cost, and overall a better vehicle. (Of course, if you're actually playing base IG instead....)

 

If you want close combat from the Inquisition, you need to use Grey Knights. Melee Inquisitors are just terribad. Really, really overcosted and ineffective. You can make a fun and reasonably potent assaulty Inquisitor from the WH codex, but that's still something of a points sink. GKs are just way more points efficient, and GKTs are still the game's best terminators.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I've had a lot of success with my melee WH Inquisitor Lady. She tends to kick things butts or stand in combat for multiple rounds without dying. My advice is if you want to try it, go for it. The Inquisition exists to have fun. Another option is to add a unit of IST's from the Witch Hunters Codex as allies, attach a WH Codex Priest, and this unlocks a WH Elites choice of Arco-flagellants. Alternatively I've had great success using DCA's as melee troops (Death Cult Assassins). A WH Inquisitor works much better due to her retinue options, particularly Crusaders and Chiurgeons.

 

If your group is alright with using IA2, then you can build the army you are thinking of. Without IA2, Number6's comments are correct in that there is no way to get a Valkyrie or Vendetta in an Inquisition list, however with it you can certainly have a Valkyrie as a transport option. What I did was call the local GW store I play at and asked them if they allow it's use, and they said yes. For me that means I can play with the fun toys and not worry about it. I recommend a similar thing for you, just check where you play and see if they mind. If they allow the books, DEFINATELY worth it. It gives you the same Chimeras as the Guard, lowers your transport points cost, and unlocks Valkyries and/or Repressors. Both of which are fantastic vehicles.

 

Basically.. don't worry about seeming powergamerish. You're playing the Inquisition, anyone who actually knows anything knows these aren't power gamer armies. Just have fun and use what you think is cool.. chances are it'll work for you :)

[Hellbreaker]

don't worry about seeming powergamerish. You're playing the Inquisition, anyone who actually knows anything knows these aren't power gamer armies. Just have fun and use what you think is cool.. chances are it'll work for you ;)

 

Quoted for truth.

In my mind the most fun of games have come from my WHs.

I may love my Tyranids and Eldar, but the Inquisition spices things up and nothing is more fun than letting out 6 arco-flagellants on something.

 

I personally would use the IG as a base for your army though, but then you can't discuss it with us here, so check if your store/club/group allows the IA rules.

 

Cheers!

[Imperator Mos]

Imperial armour is really the way to go. Its not cheating or powergaming, it's giving us updated points for vehicles we share with the newer armies. The new chimera rules make it a top 5 transport, so feel free to load up on those.

[Hfran Morkai]

Imperial armour is really the way to go. Its not cheating or powergaming, it's giving us updated points for vehicles we share with the newer armies. The new chimera rules make it a top 5 transport, so feel free to load up on those.

 

And take autocannons!

 

Hehehe

 

I love chimera autocannons...

[Zipline]

Umm... well, sounds like what you want to do, from a rules standpoint, is have an IG army with an allied inquisitor.

 

Especially since you cant take a GK landraider without taking a GK hero.

I've read that IG armies with allied Inquisitors are more flexible, but the way the Allies system works requires that I have an IG commander, and I don't want that. I'm more of a fluffy player, so the idea of an Inquisitorial task force appeals to me more than an IG regiment with a tag-along witch burner. You have a valid point about the LRC, though, I had overlooked that requirement. It kind of throws a kink in my plans not to be able to field an LRC, since I based the plan on a GK-less version of number6's lists.

 

I'm not really up on the Imperial Armour rules, so from the viewpoint of just the available codex rules, you won't be able to build your army using all of your unit preferences. (Use of IA rules vary widely. In my own game group, we usually don't allow them at all, but some leagues or one-off games or tournaments do allow them from time to time.)

 

You can't get land raider crusaders without taking at least a GK Hero, as LRCs are GK vehicles only. (And you don't really want to be stuck with the Inquisition dedicated land raider transport because RAW says, stupidly, that you don't get the Assault Vehicle rule nor the Machine Spirit rule.)

 

There is also no way to get a Valkyrie or Vendetta into a base DH army. As previously mentioned, you'd have to build a base IG army and then ally in Inquisitorial units. In all honesty, if you're going to give up Grey Knights, this is what you should do. However, you won't be able to discuss such an army on this forum. :(

 

As for whether ISTs should use Chimeras or Rhinos, your analysis is spot on. Melta ISTs work best in Rhinos. However, if you're inducting IG, you can let some ISTs borrow one of the IG Chimeras. Same points cost, and overall a better vehicle. (Of course, if you're actually playing base IG instead....)

 

If you want close combat from the Inquisition, you need to use Grey Knights. Melee Inquisitors are just terribad. Really, really overcosted and ineffective. You can make a fun and reasonably potent assaulty Inquisitor from the WH codex, but that's still something of a points sink. GKs are just way more points efficient, and GKTs are still the game's best terminators.

Speaking of whom, hello!

Just a few minutes ago I called my LGS and the owner told me that he's fine with IA supplements, but that it would have to be decided player-to-player if I can use them in specific battles. Honestly, I can't see many people saying no, since Forgeworld is such an integral part of GW.

 

So an Inquisitor Lord in LR is a bad idea simply because you don't get those special rules? Yes, I can see how losing those would both hurt, a lot, but does it totally nerf the pairing?

 

I've read that Hector Rex was designed by FW to be melee, and I've heard good things about him even though I've yet to read his stats. Without the benefit of the Assault Launchers though, he'd take a hit jumping out of a LR...

 

I've had a lot of success with my melee WH Inquisitor Lady. She tends to kick things butts or stand in combat for multiple rounds without dying. My advice is if you want to try it, go for it. The Inquisition exists to have fun. Another option is to add a unit of IST's from the Witch Hunters Codex as allies, attach a WH Codex Priest, and this unlocks a WH Elites choice of Arco-flagellants. Alternatively I've had great success using DCA's as melee troops (Death Cult Assassins). A WH Inquisitor works much better due to her retinue options, particularly Crusaders and Chiurgeons.

 

If your group is alright with using IA2, then you can build the army you are thinking of. Without IA2, Number6's comments are correct in that there is no way to get a Valkyrie or Vendetta in an Inquisition list, however with it you can certainly have a Valkyrie as a transport option. What I did was call the local GW store I play at and asked them if they allow it's use, and they said yes. For me that means I can play with the fun toys and not worry about it. I recommend a similar thing for you, just check where you play and see if they mind. If they allow the books, DEFINATELY worth it. It gives you the same Chimeras as the Guard, lowers your transport points cost, and unlocks Valkyries and/or Repressors. Both of which are fantastic vehicles.

 

Basically.. don't worry about seeming powergamerish. You're playing the Inquisition, anyone who actually knows anything knows these aren't power gamer armies. Just have fun and use what you think is cool.. chances are it'll work for you :D

I've looked through the IA supplements, and I don't recall Vendettas being an option. Did I miss it? Good advice, btw.

 

 

 

 

Thinking about bumping up to 2,000 points, since I don't think you can field Rex until 1,500 and I might as well go the extra 500

[morcus]

You'd need an IG HQ but not nesserilly a command squad. Your best option if you take that road would be to take a comissar or Primaris Psyker, with the former being the most useful. If you use DH as your base you can make use of inducted guard formations to provide vehicles and effective CC units, take two infantry platoons and use them to buy some transports And I'd recommend taking some rough riders for extra CC ability. Tooled up the right way, IG platoons can be quite effective in CC If you know what your doing, using the combined squad rules you can form large units, take some comissars and power weapons and you can do some real damage, I'm really tempted to field the maximum 45 trooper, 5 sergs, 5 comis 10 power weapons, lead by a Comissar Lord.

 

To be honest though, your probably better of fielding IG as the base if you don't want GK.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I've looked through the IA supplements, and I don't recall Vendettas being an option. Did I miss it? Good advice, btw.

No, that's correct. There is no way to get a Vendetta unless you have the IG base army. I prefer going with the Inquisition base myself though, it also keeps the Valkyries as transports, not as a squadron. Much more manevuerability and independence that way.

 

If you use DH as your base you can make use of inducted guard formations to provide vehicles and effective CC units, take two infantry platoons and use them to buy some transports And I'd recommend taking some rough riders for extra CC ability. Tooled up the right way, IG platoons can be quite effective in CC If you know what your doing, using the combined squad rules you can form large units, take some comissars and power weapons and you can do some real damage, I'm really tempted to field the maximum 45 trooper, 5 sergs, 5 comis 10 power weapons, lead by a Comissar Lord.

 

To be honest though, your probably better of fielding IG as the base if you don't want GK.

Why? He is using mostly IST's as troops, he can add a platoon or two with the Inquisition as a base, one Leman Russ tank is plenty sufficient using Godhammer-pattern Land Raiders as an Inquisitor Transport and then using the Valkyries with rocket pods and heavy bolters as anti-infantry. He can take the autocannon Chimeras as a light tank and additional transport, and can already induct Rough Riders with two platoons of Guardsmen, and can also induct Sentinel walkers.

 

Realistically speaking, what is there besides the Guard HQ choices that he really needs? This way is not only fluffy and fun for him, but it gets him all he wants without any downsides really.

 

On a further note, since you would be using IA2 anyway for your vehicles, your Land Raiders would function with the modern PotMS and so forth. I believe they're still 10 person capacity, but you don't have to worry about other confusions. I still say go with your fluffy approach that YOU want. I think it can work just fine for you, especially given the modern Imperial Guard Platoon setup options and so forth.

[morcus]

Unless you want lots of DH elites, theres little point in using DH as the base, but it up to you. My suggestions were purely a way to build a more competetive force. The new IG vets make IST pretty redundant as they'll do the same thing with the option to field heavy weapons and an extra special weapon, and sniper rifles. You have to take 2 platoons of guardsmen to take any of the decent options anyway.

 

The army listed in the original post could easilly be represtented either way around but the IG based list is more sound as your not using IA.

[Zipline]

Interesting, interesting. Much to think on.

 

Now, I'm curious about a few things regarding Imperial Stormtroopers. Am I correct in remembering that 2x meltas in a squad of 5, with no vets or other upgrades, is the ideal way of running them? I'll probably be facing MEQ armies a good deal of the time, so I was debating between melta guns and plasma guns, but if I went plasma I'd have precious little anti-vehicle. Or is plasma good against vehicles too? I haven't used it much before. Also, is it true that I shouldn't buy the IST models, but convert IG? Anyone have any experience doing this?

[number6]

If you're indeed going to be using IA rules, then I will defer to Inquisitor Nicole's comments on their rules. (As I said, I don't own or use those rules myself.) But stock DH dedicated land raiders are awful. GK Land Raider Crusaders are awesome. They can fire all their weapons systems even when moving at combat speed. And even if they move a full 12", they can still fire all but one of their weapons. Just an amazing vehicle.

 

And yes, Malleus Inquisitors are terrible, terrible melee options. No matter how many points you pour into them -- and it will have to be a lot -- you'll never get anything better than supbar performance. You won't get more than a single invulnerable save, you won't have any insta-kill protection, you won't get better than a handful of 3+ saves (or possibly a few 2+ saves if you're willing to make acolytes nothing more than wound markers), and the only actual semi-killy model in the unit is the Inquisitor himself. Seriously awful unit for close combat. At least with the WH Inquisitors you can mitigate many -- though not all -- of these shortcomings. Even the good WH combat Inquisitor builds (e.g., mass power weapons) cost a lot of points. GKs are just better. So I would recommend that if you're going to give up GKs entirely, you also give up the idea of building any combat units and just go for shooty. You can do quite well that way.

 

Especially if you're playing a lot of Marines, your ISTs need to be meltas and not plasmas. Plasmas are not adequate anti-armour weapons, and you need a weapon that can hurt both Marines and their vehicles. Additionally, plasmas don't get the melta bonus, and they aren't AP 1, either, which is huge if you look at the vehicle damage table. Meltas are also assault weapons. At first blush, this might seem silly when you're talking about just 5 ISTs, but the ability to assault after shooting should not be overlooked. ISTs are often stuck in the thick of things. The ablity to roadblock/stall with an assault after an initial shooting punch is a valuable tactical tool that you need to have available. (Imagine killing a couple models out of a combat squad and then assaulting. You stand good odds of sticking them for a round or two.)

[Inquisitor Fox]

If you're indeed going to be using IA rules, then I will defer to Inquisitor Nicole's comments on their rules. (As I said, I don't own or use those rules myself.) But stock DH dedicated land raiders are awful. GK Land Raider Crusaders are awesome. They can fire all their weapons systems even when moving at combat speed. And even if they move a full 12", they can still fire all but one of their weapons. Just an amazing vehicle.

Wow, I have Number6 deferring to me.. don't worry, I won't let it go to my head! ;)

 

The IA2 update clarifies a number of issues for the DH Land Raider. Firstly, it specifies that both variations (the Inquisitor Land Raider and the Grey Knights Land Raider, which are seperate entries in the book) are Assault Vehicles. They come with the same default gear, but the Grey Knights Land Raider has additional options the Inquisitor one does not (notably the ability to swap the twin-linked heavy bolters to twin-linked psycannons, then the blessed, psycannon bolts, sacred hull options). There are two other options in the book which are different, the Inquisitor Land Raider Prometheus, and the Grey Knight Land Raider Crusader. The points for the Crusader are indeed altered from the Codex, but it has the modern PotMS, a transport capacity of 16, and still has the ability to fire all of it's weapons at 6" of movement, due to the fact that because of their strength Hurricane Bolters are defensive in classification. It still has the option of a multi-melta, but you have to pay for it. With IA2 many vehicles costs went down, but a couple did go up. Overall I find the option to have everyone's vehicles work the same to be a benefit, but that could just be my experience.

 

Especially if you're playing a lot of Marines, your ISTs need to be meltas and not plasmas. Plasmas are not adequate anti-armour weapons, and you need a weapon that can hurt both Marines and their vehicles. Additionally, plasmas don't get the melta bonus, and they aren't AP 1, either, which is huge if you look at the vehicle damage table. Meltas are also assault weapons. At first blush, this might seem silly when you're talking about just 5 ISTs, but the ability to assault after shooting should not be overlooked. ISTs are often stuck in the thick of things. The ablity to roadblock/stall with an assault after an initial shooting punch is a valuable tactical tool that you need to have available. (Imagine killing a couple models out of a combat squad and then assaulting. You stand good odds of sticking them for a round or two.)

I have had great luck running IST squads in groups of two.. a Melta Gun element and a Grenade Launcher element. One provides anti-infantry fire support for the other, and can double as anti-light tank in a pinch. Yes, most people love Plasma Guns, I personally love versatility, assault weapons, and the ability not to blow up my own men :woot: You could substitue Plasma Guns for Grenade Launchers I suppose, but I do recommend running them in pairs of two utilizing a leap frog style covering movement thing... let one group help cover the other and protect yourself similar to covering your own forces in Chess. It also lets you effectively fight different types of units with a minimum number of forces.

 

I recommend an anti-infantry setup for the Valkyrie due to rules quirks of movement. A Multi-laser, Rocket Pods and sponson Heavy Bolters. Lots of people try to give them a Lascannon and the Hellstrike Missiles and utilize them as anti-armor.. I feel this is a waste of their capabilities as a fast vehicle. The fact it can have 5 anti-infantry weapons and fire all of them at 6" of movement, and still fire 3 at 12" is pretty impressive and deserves to be utilized. They have a high armor value for a transport, enough to double as a legitimate gunship, and Extra Armor to boot.