Help me with some house rules

[OGNaaman]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm an old 2nd Ed gamer and have been playing Space Wolves for almost 17 years now. For the most part (95%), I really like the 5th Ed. Codex. There are, however, a few rules that I feel don't represent the fluff very well. My house rules are meant to address those issues for the sake of "playing" the "flavor" of the Space Wolves more accurately.

 

The first thing that bothers me is Ragnar. That character is the reason I chose to play Space Wolves way back then, so there is a little bit of a personal interest in that character. His rules represent his abilities pretty well, however, there are certain things that don't quite jive with the fluff and I want to address those things.

 

Some of the key things that set Ragnar apart from other Wolf Lords are his talents, his influence, his skill and his speed. He also carries the Frostfang (presumably, the 2nd ed wargear card that spawned the concept of the Frostblade). His bolt pistol is also special in a minor way in that he "inherited" it from his predecessor, Berek Thunderfist.

 

So, here we go:

 

I feel that Ragnar needs to be more survivable since as a young Blood Claw, he defeated NOT ONLY an Ork Warboss, but the entire retinue of Nobz as well. A 4+ invulnerable save (dodge) isn't gong to keep him alive against all those power claw and big choppa attacks even as a Wolf Lord, much less a young Blood Claw.

 

Not to mention, he is the only character in the codex (other than Leman Russ) to have killed a Blackmaned wolf, supposedly the most fearsome predators on all of Fenris. Given the size and awesomeness of a "mere" thunder wolf, it seems like Ragnar is either exceptionally skilled (the Warhammer 40K version of Achilles) or he is incredibly fortunate... I tend to favor the former idea. In any case, given what Ragnar has accomplished so early in his career, it seems that the odds should be in his favor against any mortal enemy he confronts (Mephiston and Khârn being exceptions that I believe should be somewhat better than him in close combat).

 

So, I feel that Ragnar should be more difficult to kill, because at this point, any character without eternal warrior is risking way too much by doing the heroic thing and confronting a Wraithlord or Greater Demon or even another independent character. All I can think of is to change the way his dodge rule works and the only thing that seems "reasonable" is to say that instead of suffering instant death, Ragnar rolls a dodge roll for each wound he has remaining. Any saves prevent the loss of one wound; in effect, he sort of dodges all of or most of the attack or else manages to take the damage on a non-vital organ etc... but that seems a little awkward in the existing rules set (it may be too "unique" of a mechanic).

 

Next, I think the Frostfang deserves recognition in 5th ed. At the very least, it ought to be a master-crafted Frostblade, however, a special ability would be nice. The best thing I've come up with to make it "special" without going overboard is to give it the ability to wound on a 2+ (regardless of toughness) if the roll to hit was a 6.

 

His bolt pistol should simply be master-crafted.

 

I also feel that his Initiative should be at a base of 6.

 

However, putting all of that on top of what he's already got makes him WAY over the top.

 

Still, based on the fluff, it seems that Ragnar should be the most dangerous Space Wolf to face in close combat, and as of right now, he just isn't. Logan Grimnar, Arjac Rockfist and Canis Wolfborne are all much more serious threats to the enemy, if only because they're just that much harder to kill.

 

Next:

 

I'm also a little skeptical that Blood Claws should have a WS of 3. I know they're at the same skill level as Space Marine scouts, but it seems more appropriate to me to give them a WS of 4 (they are Space Wolves, after all) and perhaps a Ld of 7 to represent their propensity toward reckless judgement.

 

Finally:

Iron Priests... why can't they take a transport? He's the only one who can take Saga of the Iron Wolf, but he doesn't get any dedicated transports.... he can take a bike... but then servitors can't... he can take a thunder wolf mount... but he'll still only have one wound. He needs to be able to AT least choose a Rhino/Razorback if not a Land Raider (I mean... they are his tanks after all).

 

So... opinions on how these things affect the game... give me feedback.

[Night Runner]

I understand were you're coming from, since I'm an old timer myself, but the only thing I miss from the 2nd is the combat system which was more detailed and led to smaller games. As regards the codex, Ragnar could have been better, but I don't wont a game that's turned into a Herohammer nightmare (it's one of the reasons I turned 80% to epic). I think there are other aspects, more general in nature about the codex that could have been addressed to represent the fluff better. There are several threads if you'd like to go over them to get familiar with the opinions at the Fang.

 

As regards the BC, when they were given a WS3 and the SM scouts still had WS4, back in 3rd I went berzerk. I thought it was unfair and ridiculous. Now that things have been equalized I'm just thankful. I'd rather leave the stats the way they are. What I do think is that they should have been given different weapon options and/or made a bit cheaper to distinguish them and make them more viable to GH.

[Grey Mage]

Im sorry... but do you realise just how fast someone has to be to get a dodge save? Only the fastest Eldar have it, and Ragnar.

[OGNaaman]

Okay, I've figured out how to make Ragnar's rules represent the fluff without going off the deep end. Still open to suggestions though...

 

Profile

 

6 5 4 4 3 6 4 10 3+ (Initiative is 6)

 

Frostfang: A master-crafted frost blade that, once per assault phase, allows Ragnar to re-roll a single roll to wound.

 

Ragnar carries a master-crafted bolt pistol.

 

Incredible Reflexes: No longer an "invulnerable save." Instead, roll a D6: on a 1, Ragnar suffers the full effects of the attack (instant death if appropriate). On a 2 or 3 he partially dodges and suffers a single wound (even if instant death would normally have occurred). On a 4+ he avoids the attack completely.

 

Insane Bravado and War Howl remain unchanged.

[Ullr Direfang]

so ragnar is the fastest humanoid in the universe? and how many points is he going to cost with the upgraded "incredible reflexes"? also i would avoid using master-crafted since it is no longer around really.

 

EDIT:

i personally wouldn't change him. i don't use him but i feel his rules are fair. if you add the changes you made i feel you would have to at least at 25+ points.

[Vash113]

Honestly, just stick with his official rules I say. They work just fine, Ragnar is a combat beast and fairly surviveable anyway. As long as you don't throw him at a line of Carnifex's he's not that easy to kill and with a whole pack of Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard around him he's even less easy to kill.

 

Frankly Ragnar is an offensive monster, he's not really supposed to be insanely tough to kill, it's a trade-off. If you want extreme durability go with a Lone Wolf with a Storm Shield.

 

There's a reason everyone got tired of hero-hammer. If you're afraid of Power Fists and the like, just be careful with which units Ragnar charges into.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Dunno why but none of the wolves have mastercrafted weapons.

 

Instant detah has become a key rule in 40k, it prevents tooled up characters from ruling the game. As a result GW seems keen to keep the number of instant-death immune characters down. Regular Codex marines get 2 special chars with eternal warrior.

 

On the other hand we get one spec character with it and the option to make any wolf lord eternal warrior.

 

GW clearly want special characters to support an army, not dominate it. Ragnar has furious charge which he gives to his squad and +d3 attacks. I personaly think he is balanced as he is.

 

I've also come from a 2nd ed background when 2ned was all about the characters and I welcome the change to a proper wargame rather than a few characters ripping apart an army.

[Valerian]

OGNamaan,

 

I've been playing with Ragnar since Rogue Trader (also 17 years) and his current incarnation is the best he has ever been. The only things he lost in the latest transition is the Master-crafted Bolt Pistol (big whoop, it's a bolt pistol, and he hits on anything but a 1 with it anyway), and his Master-crafted Frost Blade (Frost Fang), again, no huge loss as MC only lets you reroll one miss per turn anyway. Now what does he get in exchange for these losses? Furious Charge all of the time for himself and any unit he attaches to; hell yeah! This alone makes up for it, but that's not all; once per game he grants FC to every unit with a model within six inches; bonus. He also gets Saga of the Warriorborn, those kills start piling up. While he still grants +d3 attacks to himself and his unit. Essentially, he turns any normal unit into a kick arse assault unit.

 

On the charge he gets 6-8 attacks at Initiative 6 and Strength 6, and this is in the first round before building up SoWB bonuses. What more do you want as far as skill?

 

As for the 4+ Dodge Save, it's what he's always had, so no change whatsoever there. The only thing is that he's vulnerable to Instant Death, so are most characters, you've got to learn to deal with it; it's his one vulnerability and keeps him under 300 points. There are techniques to protect him, so do your best to. Lord Commander Dante is one of the oldest, most skilled fighters in the universe, but the Blood Angels Chapter Master doesn't have eternal warrior either.

 

Best Regards,

 

Valerian

[Gentlemanloser]

Ragnar is sick with his current rules. You'll be hard pressed to find a tougher SM IC in CC. His extra charge attacks and FC are just gravy.

 

It's the Saga of the Warrior Born, rolled in with everything else, that makes him so fearsome.

 

Take his two wolves, so you get a limited protection from ID (with his 50/50 save, giving him EW on top would have been silly), but he goes before most already at I6, hits as hard as a GKT with a S6 Power Weapon, and a nice amount of attack with his d3 Charge bonus.

 

Then however many he kills gets added as additional attacks next round.

 

I seriosuly don't think he needs any more buffs.

 

I used him in conjuntion with a Wolf Priest, killed 7 marines on his charge, leaving his with a whopping amount of atacks for the next round. I don't recall him dropping much below 10 attacks a round after that.

[mastrchief33]

Many characters lack eternal warrior, it doesn't make them unplayable. Especially in this case, Ragnar can bring enough attacks, and at Ini 5 or 6 to kill entire units by himself. If it is a wraithlord, or other high toughness MC then don't use ragnar against it.

[Skalver]

If you are not happy with his survivability and your opponent agrees just swap Saga of the Warrior Born for Saga of the Bear and keep the points cost the same. He will still be a close combat monster just not quite as much of a one and will have eternal warrior to keep you happy.

 

Trying to add more abilities to an already (arguably ridiculously) powerful character is just going to ruin the balance of the game. If you are looking at the fluff however Ragnar has several times been taken out of the battle and very close to death. You never see Logan Grimnar on his back at the end of a fight but Ragnar is often at death's door when the combat ends. He is not supposed to be invulnerable but as long as he stays standing he can swing the tide of battle quite effectively and this is well captured by the current rules.

[OGNaaman]

I agree that the rules given for Ragnar are awesome. I'm not disputing that he's already powerful. I just miss certain things about the character that were not put into this version.

 

As for Dante not having Eternal Warrior... I'd bet a Blood Angels codex that he'll have it when the new one comes out, and so will Mephiston, most likely.

 

Is Ragnar the fastest humanoid in the universe? I would have to say he is (yes, even faster than Eldar), but I think that the rules that are published don't quite capture that, hence the house rules.

 

With Dodge being an invulnerable save, it really might as well just be an iron halo/belt of russ. If it's going to be a "dodge," let function differently than a physical piece of wargear.