Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I've been informed on a few occassions that the Space Wolves cannot have successors. At all. I've heard both that the geneseed is too unstable, and that the High Lords would never allow a founding to use Space Wolves geneseed since they'd rather not have another Chapter as independant and head-strong "running wild". And so I turn to my fellows here. Could any of you cite actual fluff sources? One could always assume a Cursed Founding, but that doesn't really ring true to me if you wish to use the Space Wolves Codex. And yes, I do ask since I have a couple of ideas. Being a fluff nazi, however, I want to make sure I have fluff on my side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 There was a single successor chapter called the Wolf Brothers. They were wiped out due to genetic instability...apparently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdal Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 SW had a second founding called "Wolf Brothers". Because "some" circumstances they had a higher degree of mutations (Curse of the Wulfen) and got closed down by the =][= after some time. After that the Space Wolves hasnt been asked to create any more foundings. Source: my memory Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 As this has ben discussed at great length please limit this thread to actual citations of fluff. Page, Paragraph, synopsis etc... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195155 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Source: my memory Ah the most reliable source of all! I remember back in the days of Russ, when wolves and bears danced happily with unicorns and bunnies in fields of love, hearts flowering as candy rained down from the heavens above! :lol: It's similar in principle to the Blood Angels, where geneseed (of any chapter) exhibiting notable mutations are less likely to be re-used for future foundings. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Guard Dan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Source: my memory Ah the most reliable source of all! I remember back in the days of Russ, when wolves and bears danced happily with unicorns and bunnies in fields of love, hearts flowering as candy rained down from the heavens above! :P DV8 This may not be the impression you'd want to give one of em DA. They may try to get friendly with us... :lol: But in all respects, it would be fatal to question the memory of any Wolf Lord. And therefore it is the most accurate source on any SW thread. Edit: As for your question, I forgot to keep on topic. Although there is no real source for this I believe Phil Kelly imparted us with the idea the there are many more SW Great Companies than those represented in the Grand Annulus. I assume your question is because you want to start a Chapter like the space wolves without roots on Fenris? My idea to you would be a "Lost COmpany" who took root on a distant planet and their Company grew to Chapter Size. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdal Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Source: my memory Ah the most reliable source of all! I remember back in the days of Russ, when wolves and bears danced happily with unicorns and bunnies in fields of love, hearts flowering as candy rained down from the heavens above! :lol: DV8 You forgot the cotton roses! Do not forget the cotton roses! :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadris Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I found a link on this site that gives references. However, I dont see anything in it that is truly definitive as to why there is no successor chapters. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...showarticle=178 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdal Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I see that Aurelius Rex was involved in writing that article. He got my highest esteem when it comes to fluff. Unless you can whip up a second editon SW codex this is the absoloutely best thing you can get. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 ‘The Space Wolves were never a very large and so were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolbrothers Chapter. Perhaps the High Lords recognised the problems of genetic instability that would plague the genetic seed of Lemon Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of Wulfen, and therefore decided against dividing and further spreading the Space Wolves’ genetic base.’ 2nd Edition C:SW, p. 9. ‘The Space Wolves were divided only once, creating the ill-fated Wolfbrothers Chapter. Perhaps the High Lords recognised the problems of genetic instability that would plague the legacy of Lemon Russ, giving rise in later times to the terrible curse of the Wulfen. Perhaps Lemon Russ had no intention of breaking apart his mighty Legion so that they could be divided and conquered if necessary.’ 5th Edition C:SW, p. 9. Some subtle changes as much that should be remembered is forgotten – now where've I heard that before... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantyr Greymantle Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 a related question - has it ever been published who was the Great Wolf of the Space Wolves when the Wolf Brothers were founded and a second related question - were the Wolf Brothers structured along the lines of the Fang or Astartes? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Russ was Great wolf as this was done under his leaadership and after the Heresy. When Gullaman wanted them split. All assumptions would be that they would be organised like SW were prior to the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantyr Greymantle Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks, Beef! Is the pre-heresy structure of the Space Wolves described anywhere? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 yeah the codex :D we haven't really changed like most chapters did when they used the codex as the guidlines. we are still similar, it depends on the wolf lord as to what they want in their company and in what numbers. only difference is scale, despite being a relatively large chapter at the moment, the legion would have been bigger. best hopes for makeup and structure is the horus heresy books or art book but essentiallly it was along the lines of our codex i think Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 So, in short, there might be successors out there, but no-one actually knows, except perhaps the leaders of said successors...? Or even Chapters organised along the lines of the Wolves, but with a different geneline? Hmmm... Well, that would mean I had the fluff behind me... For those curious, I've been imagining a Space Wolves-like Chapter with mohawks and axes for some time now. ;) I blame my youth spent reading Cooper. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hfran Morkai Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 So, in short, there might be successors out there, but no-one actually knows, except perhaps the leaders of said successors...? Or even Chapters organised along the lines of the Wolves, but with a different geneline? Hmmm... Well, that would mean I had the fluff behind me... For those curious, I've been imagining a Space Wolves-like Chapter with mohawks and axes for some time now. ;) I blame my youth spent reading Cooper. ;) It's an issue of contest, there'll be people out there who call you silly for even suggesting such a thing but the truth is we don't know. Officially there are no records of other successor chapters but we know that administration in the 41st Millennium is at least as bad as today, if not worse. :tu: I say run with it, and I like my fluff but the thing about 40K is there's so much left to people's imaginations which is good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Well, I think I might run with it, if only to see how well it pans out. Just need a Chapter name and colour scheme. :tu: To the drawing board, I suppose. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2195874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks, Beef! Is the pre-heresy structure of the Space Wolves described anywhere? I’m not certain that the present Codex tells the full story and more detail will come with Prospero Burns. There are hints in The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions. It seems that there were Hunter Squads, Fenris Bloods, Claw Assault Squads, Hunter Support Squads (with hand flamers), Long Fangs, Stalker Squads, Seeker Teams, and Fire Teams. We may find that this was to reflect the development of the Legion from its pre-Fenris days (Claw Assault Squads), through the recruitment of Fenris warriors (Fenris Bloods), to their full inclusion in the Legion orbat (Blood Claws). Alternatively it may just be artists putting random names to their pretty pictures. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2196301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Thanks, Beef! Is the pre-heresy structure of the Space Wolves described anywhere? I’m not certain that the present Codex tells the full story and more detail will come with Prospero Burns. There are hints in The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions. It seems that there were Hunter Squads, Fenris Bloods, Claw Assault Squads, Hunter Support Squads (with hand flamers), Long Fangs, Stalker Squads, Seeker Teams, and Fire Teams. We may find that this was to reflect the development of the Legion from its pre-Fenris days (Claw Assault Squads), through the recruitment of Fenris warriors (Fenris Bloods), to their full inclusion in the Legion orbat (Blood Claws). Alternatively it may just be artists putting random names to their pretty pictures. :cuss I tend to think so. Maybe there have been some minimal changes through the millenia but considerign Russ' nature, his stubborness in organizational matters of his legion, I assume current structure is pretty same as it was at the time of the Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2196377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durfast Spiritwolf Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Agreed, but they may have been differences pre/post Russ taking command of the Legion Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2196396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Agreed, but they may have been differences pre/post Russ taking command of the Legion Absolutely, there is no reason to think that the Wolves based on Terran Space Marines prior to the discovery of Russ on Fenris would look anything like the Wolves after he was given command of the Legion and began to shape it based on his Fenrisian upbringing and the integration of Fenrisian Marines and their culture. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185625-space-wolves-geneseed-question/#findComment-2196474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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