Niiai Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Correct me if I am wrong here but Fenris is one huge place. It is a death world, witch means that a lott of humans die, before they get all that old. And from these survoour all space wolfs are recruited? I do not know how many Space Wolfs there are under the diferent 12 lords (Not couting number 13) but it should be quite many since they are quite famour all over the galaxy. SM, SW included, die all the time, how on earth can one death planet suport that population? The other chapters have many worlds witch they recruit from. And from what I read it seems that it is expted that a lott of blood claws die as part of training. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Correct me if I am wrong here but Fenris is one huge place. It is a death world, witch means that a lott of humans die, before they get all that old. And from these survoour all space wolfs are recruited? I do not know how many Space Wolfs there are under the diferent 12 lords (Not couting number 13) but it should be quite many since they are quite famour all over the galaxy. SM, SW included, die all the time, how on earth can one death planet suport that population? The other chapters have many worlds witch they recruit from. And from what I read it seems that it is expted that a lott of blood claws die as part of training. No you're getting your facts wrong. Yes, Fenris is a deathworld. Probably one of the deadliest (IIRC the new Codex puts it as deadlier than Catachan), and most Fenrisian males are expected to learn the art of warfare before they reach full adulthood. Plus there are other tribes, constantly fighting over precious land/territory. So yes, many Fenrisians die. But not all Fenrisians become Space Wolves. In fact, it is very rare that "survivors" are recruited as Space Wolves, and it is typically the most heroic...heroes....who have fought and been mortally wounded to the point of death (but proved their bravery) who are taken by the Wolf Priests, healed back to life, and put through the Trials as aspirants. Insofar as numbers, it varies. There are no concrete numbers, but a Great Company is typically accepted as larger than a standard Space Marine company (we're considering anywhere from 150 to 300 marines). Logan Grimnar's Great Company is estimated to be around 300 (the largest), and Ragnar Blackmane's is around 200 (second largest)? Yea Space Marines die all the time, but the casualty rate isn't necessarily as bad as you think. Remember that Astartes are functionally immortal, and while they fight in a lot of major conflicts, they don't necessarily fight in major conflicts 24/7. It could be years, or decades even between major wars, more than enough time to recruit and train more Marines. Add to the fact that just because a Space Marine is taken out of action (even on the Tabletop game), they aren't necessarily "killed". They could be incapacitated, wounded, or whatever that prevents them from returning immediately to the action. Many Astartes are quite resilient (read Wolf Blade, Haegr becomes so mortally wounded and yet a mere human surgeon who barely knew what to do with Astartes physiology was able to stabilize him), and more often than not eventually get bionic implants. As for recruiting, most Space Marine chapters only recruit from one world. There are a few who recruit from other worlds (they tend to be fleet based, like the Imperial Fists, Black Templars, Dark Angels), while others control a greater domain and can recruit from entire systems (Ultramarines). DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2195939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Plus of course, if life is hard - there will be a lot of children to compensate. High mortality rate means more breeding than normal in order to survive. (Obviously a lot of this comes from Dune and the Fremen stories - and look how many of them there were :huh: ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2195960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 As to the question in the title 'How big is Fenris?' the only answer I can give you is fricking huge! We know that the uninitatied population of Fenris lives in small tribes on seperate islands with reasonable travel by longboat between them, and the only notable land mass is where the Fang is (also a very impressively large landmass). So considering the required population to sustain the chapter and its serf (The Ragnar Blackmane Saga tells us that they prefer human serf recruited from Fenris to servitors to man their ships) the overall planet size of Fenris must be pretty significant... Also a bit of info for you, Fenris is a Deathworld because no warrior is expected to live to the age of 35. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2195968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 As a planet though I'd put it around earth size or a bit bigger. Naturally there is no source for this, just what I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2195984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im not soo sure about that, from the general vaguraries i've been able to discern, Terra isn't actually all that big... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Lodbrok Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im not soo sure about that, from the general vaguraries i've been able to discern, Terra isn't actually all that big... I have to agree with this. Terra is a rather small planet in the grand scheme of things it just happens to be extremely important. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niiai Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 It ain't just that it needs to be big, but with all the big guns in the galaxy it would have to be pretty well defended at all times. A caos bomb sent deep into the tetinic plates of the planet would be a real jepordy and they would be rid of a (relativaly) big enemy. One thing that is cool is that from a mortal fenrisian's point of wiuv the space marines are gods, under rudd and under the allfather (the emperor.) I find it supricing that they have lover morale then ultramarines because moast space wolfs would have to cinsider themself as gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196104 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Growler67 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 As a planet though I'd put it around earth size or a bit bigger. Naturally there is no source for this, just what I think. There is no Star Trek like size and classification chart in the 40k Universe as far as I am aware of. Nothing depicting "Class M" or whatever nor measured circumference at the equator of said planet(s). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im not soo sure about that, from the general vaguraries i've been able to discern, Terra isn't actually all that big... I have to agree with this. Terra is a rather small planet in the grand scheme of things it just happens to be extremely important. Fair enough. But are you saying Fenris is bigger? If so why? @Growler67 - I never said there was, in fact I said there was't. Just saying. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 From the information we have about the geographical landscape of Fenris the vast majority of it is made up from small islands with a few odd larger islands... so since they do not share land each tribe needs its own island, we know they fight over land so there will inevitably be some transitory population, but small tribes (from the description given in the Ragnar Blackmane Saga) of approximately 50-100 people per tribe... Also consider the only large population centers are the Iron tribe (what ever they are called) and the Fang... So the sapce reduired to support a population with an increadibly low survival rate and support a sapce marine chapter with serf and initates.... well Earth simply isn't big enough... not nearly big enough. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think your reasoning here is not very solid. Did you know that demographics experts have suggested that the entire population of earth can be housed and support within a land mass the size of the state of California! That's 6 billion poeple. Also you don't know how many islands there are on Fenris or what is meant by tiny (and relative to what). The fact is nobody knows until GW tell us. But if you feel that Fenris is larger than earth, I can agree. But you have to take into consideration the gravity and rotational speeds of the planet. If the planet is too big then it wont sustain the human physionomy. The Fenrisians will end up like Ogryns, at least from what can be gleemed of high gravity planets in the 40k universe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196143 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maznaz Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The only thing that I wonder, is what do all the wolves eat? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hjaertrr Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 A large amount of fish I guess, failing that probably snow cones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch015 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im not soo sure about that, from the general vaguraries i've been able to discern, Terra isn't actually all that big... I have to agree with this. Terra is a rather small planet in the grand scheme of things it just happens to be extremely important. Fair enough. But are you saying Fenris is bigger? If so why? @Growler67 - I never said there was, in fact I said there was't. Just saying. :tu: obviously there is no fluff to back this, but i have always just pictured fenris as a huge planet. probably the size of neptune or something. just because the fenrisians sail for half their lives during tectonic shifts and what not to find new land. there must be a chance of them finding asaheim right? i mean it is the only stable continent on the planet, not to mention the largest (also the most deadly). but i have never heard any stories about anyone landing on asaheim or even seeing it from their longboats. some of our terran explorers from the past have "accidentally" found north america by sailing in the wrong direction for a couple months, id assume the fenrisians would have sailed longer than that during their lifespan, and be more skilled at it, yet no one has seemed to accidentally find asaheim yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderpup Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Im not soo sure about that, from the general vaguraries i've been able to discern, Terra isn't actually all that big... I have to agree with this. Terra is a rather small planet in the grand scheme of things it just happens to be extremely important. Fair enough. But are you saying Fenris is bigger? If so why? @Growler67 - I never said there was, in fact I said there was't. Just saying. :tu: obviously there is no fluff to back this, but i have always just pictured fenris as a huge planet. probably the size of neptune or something. just because the fenrisians sail for half their lives during tectonic shifts and what not to find new land. there must be a chance of them finding asaheim right? i mean it is the only stable continent on the planet, not to mention the largest (also the most deadly). but i have never heard any stories about anyone landing on asaheim or even seeing it from their longboats. some of our terran explorers from the past have "accidentally" found north america by sailing in the wrong direction for a couple months, id assume the fenrisians would have sailed longer than that during their lifespan, and be more skilled at it, yet no one has seemed to accidentally find asaheim yet. I believe in the novel "Space Wolf" Asaheim was considered Taboo to the natives? At the very least they feared the people who did live there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heimdal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 obviously there is no fluff to back this, but i have always just pictured fenris as a huge planet. probably the size of neptune or something. just because the fenrisians sail for half their lives during tectonic shifts and what not to find new land. there must be a chance of them finding asaheim right? i mean it is the only stable continent on the planet, not to mention the largest (also the most deadly). but i have never heard any stories about anyone landing on asaheim or even seeing it from their longboats. some of our terran explorers from the past have "accidentally" found north america by sailing in the wrong direction for a couple months, id assume the fenrisians would have sailed longer than that during their lifespan, and be more skilled at it, yet no one has seemed to accidentally find asaheim yet. "Yet Asaheim is remote, surrounded by cliffs thousands of feet high that raise it from the seas and seperate it from the oceans as one world from another". Page 6, 5th ed. SW codex. I also remember something about society on Asaheim where the sea meet the land, where the iron craftsmen create weapons for the tribal warriors of Fenris. That society is kept under the protection of the Space Wolves. Point is: the tribes know of Asaheim and they know it is the land of the gods. No mere man would want to put their foot there and risk the wrath of said gods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Rylanor Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Fenris is about twice the size of Earth (Terra), this is told to us in the Codex Space Wolves 2nd Ed, as these old books were more background orientated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarch015 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 obviously there is no fluff to back this, but i have always just pictured fenris as a huge planet. probably the size of neptune or something. just because the fenrisians sail for half their lives during tectonic shifts and what not to find new land. there must be a chance of them finding asaheim right? i mean it is the only stable continent on the planet, not to mention the largest (also the most deadly). but i have never heard any stories about anyone landing on asaheim or even seeing it from their longboats. some of our terran explorers from the past have "accidentally" found north america by sailing in the wrong direction for a couple months, id assume the fenrisians would have sailed longer than that during their lifespan, and be more skilled at it, yet no one has seemed to accidentally find asaheim yet. "Yet Asaheim is remote, surrounded by cliffs thousands of feet high that raise it from the seas and seperate it from the oceans as one world from another". Page 6, 5th ed. SW codex. I also remember something about society on Asaheim where the sea meet the land, where the iron craftsmen create weapons for the tribal warriors of Fenris. That society is kept under the protection of the Space Wolves. Point is: the tribes know of Asaheim and they know it is the land of the gods. No mere man would want to put their foot there and risk the wrath of said gods. so they know of asaheim and there is a tribe living there eh? i gotta refresh my fluff. thanks for the info rylanor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 There is a tribe, but iirc they don't live there, but on a land mass not far from there as the Wolf Priest Ragnar's father ferry'd out there had to send for a Thunderhawk to return to the Fang. Also I believe the tribe is closely linked to the Wolves more so than the other tribes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Fenris is about twice the size of Earth (Terra), this is told to us in the Codex Space Wolves 2nd Ed, as these old books were more background orientated. It does not say that in the 2nd codex to my knowledge and I literally grew up with it. It only says that it takes Fenris 2 earth years to go around its sun. If I'm missing it can you please tell me what page it's on. You got me curious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Orbit has nothing to do with its size, we know Fenris has an elipitical orbit where as earth has a more circular orbit, also the size and gravity well exerted by Fenris' star is not the same as earths star so that comparision unfortunately bares no indication to the actual size of Fenris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196333 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Wolf Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 whatever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Actually the Gravity of earth is created by its Core and its spin, not just its mass. Determining the force of gravity of a planatery body is not just a case of mass = gravity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Orbit has nothing to do with its size, we know Fenris has an elipitical orbit where as earth has a more circular orbit, also the size and gravity well exerted by Fenris' star is not the same as earths star so that comparision unfortunately bares no indication to the actual size of Fenris. I wasn't suggesting that, I was only referring to what the 2nd codex stated. There was no astronomy involved. :cuss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185686-how-big-is-fenris/#findComment-2196356 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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