minigun762 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Which one sounds like a better idea to add in some shooting to your army? Imagine squads like this: 8 Chosen, 4 Plasmaguns = 204 points 8 Havocks, 4 Autocannons, IoCG = 210 points Both are pumping out a fair number of S7 shots, basically you're trading Infiltrating/Outflanking and AP2 for twice the max range and twice the average number of shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Can you give more information on what you want them to do, or what sort of army we're dealing with? I mean, both guns are s7 but one is anti infantry and the other is mainly a light armor killer so a direct comparison is difficult. I'm not sure those two squads are even that great a comparison. The chosen would really want a 5th gun or fist champ, and maybe even a rhino if outflanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bap2703 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 They just don't have the same purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Chosen. Outflank = Shoots before getting shot = AP2 spam = Side armor hits = doesn't take a HS slot. Choice is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think you are trying to compair apples and oranges here minigun. They are really two quite different squads. What does the rest of the list look like ? What do you want the squad for, killing meq's or popping rinos ? Do you have others infiltrators/outflankers or DS'ers ? . In a VERY general way, I would go with the AC havocs (of course like I said in my Q's it depends on alot), b/c I don't like infil/outflankers unless there are multiple squads of them and then your list is kind of based around that. And also in most of my larger pt list, I have 2 plaz squads already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Chosen. Outflank = Shoots before getting shot = AP2 spam = Side armor hits = doesn't take a HS slot. Choice is clear. It would be very easy to outflank and come in nowhere near a viable target. Standard board is 6 feet wide. Even if your opponent isn't consolidated in the center you could be stuck slogging for several turns before being in range. Combi plasma terminators are superior in this role. If the chosen are to outflank they must have a transport. Otherwise they need to be infiltrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Well if you mathhammer it they arent too different but the range gives them different roles. Your chances of stoping a rhino are much better.... 8 shots... 5 hits.. 1 glance 2 pen. This is all in my head and I am not a mathamatitian soooo.... or vs inf you are looking at 8 shots 5 hits 4 wounds... decent... Everything gets its armor save really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Wow I was surprised by the comments guys, I was actually thinking of using them as equivalent units for general purpose shooting to support assault oriented CSMs and pie plates (Defiler). Sounds like I was overestimating the fact that both had S7 guns and cost about the same and not paying attention to the different roles that would be best at. As for what they would be doing, I feel like my army need some way of killing fast moving vehicles that I can't reliably Fist/Krak/Melta with my CSMs or putting shots down range outside the Chaos 24" effective range to thin out squads or weaken MCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabbala Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Why not both if you have the points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 As for what they would be doing, I feel like my army need some way of killing fast moving vehicles that I can't reliably Fist/Krak/Melta with my CSMs or putting shots down range outside the Chaos 24" effective range to thin out squads or weaken MCs. Given these objectives, the AC havocs definately. Plaz only does 1 of these 3 effectively, while AC do all 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 As for what they would be doing, I feel like my army need some way of killing fast moving vehicles that I can't reliably Fist/Krak/Melta with my CSMs or putting shots down range outside the Chaos 24" effective range to thin out squads or weaken MCs. Given these objectives, the AC havocs definately. Plaz only does 1 of these 3 effectively, while AC do all 3. Seconded, and with limiting incoming fire via LoS you can control/deny a section of the board for relatively few points. + they are harder to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I like the Chosen better, but given the roles you want them to fill, I agree with Nihm and Chillin. Personally, I wouldn't play either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Given these objectives, the AC havocs definately. Plaz only does 1 of these 3 effectively, while AC do all 3. Seconded, and with limiting incoming fire via LoS you can control/deny a section of the board for relatively few points. + they are harder to break. Thanks guys, that makes sense to me. Personally, I wouldn't play either. Any reason? My assumption would be that its because both units are too static. If so, I would normally agree with you but I'm finding it difficult to go with mobile firepower without it being Obliterators. I'm jealous of sane GunDreads or Speeders. Hell I keep thinking about whether or not a Reaper-cide squad is worthwhile, but my gun instincts tell me that 3 guys for 1 Heavy Weapon is a bad buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Autocannons are too static and Chosen are a lot like Chaos Marines, but non-scoring. The extra special weapons and infiltrate are nice, but I think I'd rather just have more troops, in general. As for long-range guns, you really are just better off with Obliterators, I think. Personally, I like Vindicators, too--they're very versatile--but they're a little shorter-ranged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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