o3gan Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 In my chapter a person turns traitor I got to the point when he accepts the offer of chaos, but what happens next do they instantly grow wings and go on a rampage across the Emperor or do they slowy start becoming more evil. i could post the last paragraph of my fluff which has the offer of chaos in it, if that would be any help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 The answer is that it depends. There is not a standard process because its Chaos! That said, there are certain guidelines. Daemonic gifts usually have to be earned. But its possible that he could get an advance. Like they give him the gifts that make him strong enough to go on a rampage, but it better be a damn good rampage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 How many ways of turning a loyalist to a traitor are there? Think of as many as you can, take that number and multiply it by itself and you'll have about 0.0001% of the ways to turn traitor.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulochromis Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 well ... it starts by reading entries in the xx Chaos Legios xx sub-forum. After that, there's no salvation Cheers, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 the process of deconversion from Imperial dogma for a marine is wide open to near infinite interpretation. One individual's may be philosophical in nature; they may, for example, see the slaughter of millions by the Inquisition for little more than the suggestion of taint or corruption, and begin to subtly question their allotted purpose. From there, they may start to question the dictates of their own chapter overlords; who is this "Emperor" that dominates every spoken imperative of the chapter? Has anyone ever actually seen him? And so on and so forth. For others, it may be more immediate; perhaps some experience or revelation triggers off a hidden psychosis, or maybe they find themselvea fflicted by a "divine" revelation (a la Lorgar). Really, the only limit in this regard is your own imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sandbot Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Well first you must raise your middle finger to the nearest statue of the Emperor. Next you have to come into contact with a warp entity or something that pertains to the warp since thats normally the most common thing that will warp your body to fit the warped marine's mind. Next varies from god to god. Nurgle requires you to swear every other word in order to obtain his "filthy mouth" award. Oh and you have to avoid soap like the plague. Tzeentch just requires you to do a good Montgomery Burns impression from the Simpsons. Khorne just wants you to use a bloody guitar. (get it? guitar? axe?) Slaanesh wants to compete against the axes of Khorne with his own guitars. Cept they do it when they're drugged out of their mind and you must have a harem or you fail. In all honesty, each marine falls and pledges loyalty to chaos in their own way. Some by sheer madness, others by questioning orders. But the common factor I see is that they have to pledge themselves to chaos, gods bless them, or warp creatures mutate them. One way or another they begin to mutate once they give their souls to chaos and come into contact with the warp more. When in doubt though, having a brother marine stick a "possess me" poster on the back of another marine tends to do the trick. (its the 41st millinium, "Kick me" has gone way out of fashion) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ginn Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I think it starts when as a scout they dont eat all their veggies and stop taking their vitamins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 On the subject, i must say that i am tired of marines going renegade for lame reasons. Even in BL books there are some dumb situations for turning traitor. So here's a few things i'd avoid: - Someone in the chapter feels dissed because they didn't get some honor or another and so undermines the leadership and turns traitor. Marines don't do things like get annoyed for such silly reasons. - Someone gets power hungry and turns to the gods then manages to convert the rest of the chapter. Again, wouldn't happen. Marines are very aware of corruption. Most would kill themselves before they fell. - Pissed at the inquisition over <insert atrocity commited in the name of saving humanity>. Just a bit cliche again. Marines know what must be done to preserve humanity better than anyone. - Anything that happened to one of the original traitor legions. All of those various sins would be very watched for. I'm sure others can add to this list. I'm just tired of seeing marines fall for what seems like silly, teenage angsty sorts of reasons. Marines are conditioned against turning traitor by everything. They are superhuman. If they fall, the reason then needs to be superduperhuman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Herald of Desolation Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I'm just tired of seeing marines fall for what seems like silly, teenage angsty sorts of reasons. Marines are conditioned against turning traitor by everything. They are superhuman. If they fall, the reason then needs to be superduperhuman. I couldn't have said it better. Turning traitor isn't easy. The whole process is long and convoluted, even when it seems easy. Refer to the Soul Drinker's novels. There were declared traitor, but are still loyal. An other option, but one that is over done in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiemnex Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Storm of Iron - IG female watches thousands of her own fellow IGmen die because of her oppressor's ways. Continues to fight back against her oppressor despite being a slave to him. Forced daily to clean his armor of gore from her own legion's bodies eventually beckoned by Khorne to take her revenge on her slavemaster. Using his own weapons against him. Eventually driven so deeply into madness of killing that khorne manifests himself inside of her ending with her being turned into a bloodthirster sort of daemon. I would imagine that this is the way most fall to daemon gods.. Really yes Marines are all powerful super smart sons of $$$$. However most of the geneseeds are becoming falty and riddled with taint in one way or another Space wolves get their fangs.. blood angels are drinking blood and eating flesh. I dont know much about ultra marines but they seem to be the more "pure" seed. Dark Angels have their own dirty little secrets.. The most allure I feel like isnt about one life altering moment in time.. It is about a matter of duty and that duty being skewed into do whatever is necisarry to get the job done and through doing so fall more and more into darkness.. I hate to say it but the only difference between space marines and chaos is the fact that before space marines kill the inhabitance of a planet they ask if they will worship the Emperor or not.. Chaos kills first and asks later. If you look at a lot of fluff most of them have their own religious or dutiful reason for doing one thing or another. Chaos just has more unconventional ways of going about things. Some of the legions are tight knit and others not so much. Just like Space Marines. prior to the current codex converted space wolves were unheard of because of their tight knit group and the amount of things you needed to do before even considering geneseed or being able to drink the blood of russ. The Iron Warriors will use someone to their advantage and then kill them once their use is gone because they dont trust them... I remember reading a story in a white dwarf about a space marine talking about how battle no longer made him feel adrenalin anylonger because he had been in so many combats. he had seen so many faces fall at his hand.. Take the consideration of that much massacre at one man's hand. That is what a lot of the early on patriarchs were looking at. Demi-Gods who did nothing but faithfully slay for the Emperor and his will. Space Marines despite power houses were still man made.. Therefore flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Pissed at the inquisition over <insert atrocity commited in the name of saving humanity>. Just a bit cliche again. Marines know what must be done to preserve humanity better than anyone. Yup, it's a variant on Inquisitor ex Machina that turns up more frequently than you'd think in the Liber Astartes section. My advice is to stay clear of it. The Celestial Lions were an exception to the norm for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sandbot Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I think alot of the points made by Req up there cover a pretty decent portion of turning traitor without fully delving into warp ex machina and Inquisitor ex machina (as said by Drudge and Tyr). Although, one thing about turning traitor that comes to mind is that it really brings out the irony of being a marine. In order to fall to chaos, it seems like they have to play on the human aspect of the marine, but then in order to resist Chaos' temptations they would have to sacrifice what little humanity is left for them to continue to fight for humanity. Come to think of it, the irony is made more apparent when you take the Grey Knights into account. They don't really seem like believable humans anymore since any sense of humanity has been wiped from them to the point where all they know is the Emperor, their duty, and death. Which would explain why they were willing to wipe out the Flame Falcons on just the inquisitor's orders (Duty > Brotherhood) and it would also explain why their ideal place to be is dead, in a tomb, under a floating rock in space (Duty > life). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer216 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 It occurs me that if you want a really good example of Space Marines falling to Chaos, the new single player campaign in Dawn of War II's expansion coming out in March will probably do the job nicely, as long as you make the effort to rack up as much corruption as possible :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Lodbrok Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Well first you have to get your 10A6241-B then fill it out in triplicate after that is done you take it to the local Chaos Recruitment Office. Your application will be reviewed in the coming weeks in which you will have a sitdown interview with Daemonic Counselor in which you will discuss current job problems points of interest will be: Your undying hatred of the Corpse God, Imperial Guardsmen and your chainsword, why the Imperium of Man is deranged, 401K and Health benefits and last but not least subject to availability. After that it will take another few weeks as the Daemons debate whether you would be a boon to the team when such a decision is arrived at you can expect to hear from us rather soon and abruptly. Thank you for showing your interest in the Ruinous Powers and have a horrible day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mad Balrog Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I've always interpreted corruption and the fall to Chaos as being a spiritual, rather than a mental/physical thing. It has a lot to do with my theory of the Warp, which I won't get in to here, but suffice to say, Marines fall for emotional reasons. The Imperium at large takes very good care of its Marines' physical and mental abilities, as those are pretty easily measured, and they attempt to treat their spiritual needs as well by means of the faith in the God-Emperor and chaplains, etc, etc. However, how can you tell what someone is really feeling without a psyker in their brain 24/7? The reason why there are so many "stereotyical" falls, as Drudge listed for us, is that there's no real control or standard to measure emotions against. Is the raving anger a Marine suffers from hatred for the xenos, or from the influence of Khorne? Since Chaos Marines hate the xenos as much as Loyalists do, it becomes exceptionally hard to tell in such cases. The culture of the Space Marines is very much "shut up and obey orders", which means all the Marines who have dissenting opinion just keep it bottled up until it explodes - i.e., the "rampage". With chapters like the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves - the "wild/crazy" chapters - it's almost impossible to tell when the line is crossed. And for the Dark Angels Fallen, they did it for what they considered very good reasons. My Renegade Chapter is more than a little stereotypical, since they fell fundamentally because they weren't feeling appreciated for the hard work they did for the Imperium, but again, that's an emotional response, for which they were censured by chapter command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 The first and most important step into the darkness that is turning evil? You have to watch Tom Green's "Freddy Got Fingered" at least twice a day. After that, the rest is cake. Truthfully, a lot of times it happens from merely being exposed to Chaos. Why do you think the Inquisition regularly cleanses planets or companies after fighting off a Chaos incursion? Look at the First Armageddon War for a great example of this, which is also the reason why Space Wolves have a great distaste for all that is Inquisition. I think the only exception to this is Cadia, because if you DID cleanse the population exposed to Chaos, then you'd have nothing left. I suppose space Marines are a lot more tolerant of Chaotic taint (the Exorcists, for example), but the Dark Gods constantly whisper in the ear of mortals, especially those who are of exceptional power, ie Astartes. It can start off with the best of intentions, like the Iron Warriors on Olympia, where they actually culled the population in order to stop a revolt. At that point, there's no turning back, and whilst the Iron Warriors are by no means worshipers of Chaos, they do harness it's power. You also have other instances, such as Relictors or Sons of Malice, who, while they more or less still see themselves as protectors of humankind, they use the powers of Chaos as a means to an end. Sons of Malice may not be the best example though, as I believe they've been retconned to be full blown Chaos worshiping Malal- I mean Malice! Soul Drinkers are another good example of best intentions gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randian Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 At that point, there's no turning back, and whilst the Iron Warriors are by no means worshipers of Chaos, they do harness it's power. If I recall correctly, Dead Sky Black Sun has Medrengard hosting all manner of Chaos temples, and millions of beings worshiping in them. They worship Perturabo (a notable Chaos entity) as their lord and savior. How do they maintain the discipline to avoid degenerating into full-blown Chaos worship while living on a Chaos planet and surrounded by Chaos cults and Dark Mechanicus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 The Iron Warriors don't actually worship Chaos. They're much like Night Lords and Alpha Legion when it comes to the Dark Gods. Use them to find a means to meet their goal. Look at their Daemon Engines and Daemonculaba (sp?), they're weapons or technology created by infusing daemonic beings or energy with something else. This is mainly thanks to Dark Mechanicus, which themselves are fully immersed in all that chaos has to offer. So whilst Iron Warriors themselves are not, per say, followers of the Big Four, those they align with and employ are. The Temples are probably for their allies or slaves. Of course I can't say this for certain, and there are exceptions to the rule, such as those Iron Warriors who devote themselves to Khorne and plunge full swing into CC battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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