Bolter Harassment

[Corpse.]

I went over this a few times and made it needlessly long, so I'm just going to summarize it this time around.

 

Ratio

Troops=:=Other

Numbers can win against specialization if done right. Everyone hates facing tons of troops even if they have the weapons to deal with them. 8 marines can beat 3 terminators at 120 points for example. Ten marines can beat a leman russ battle tank by charging it with krak grenades. 18 marines can charge a bloodthirster and give it a run for its money. And so on.

 

We've had several troop spam discussions, so lets discuss tactics with pure mecha+troop armies, preferably the cheaper ones for the tactical roles. I'll start.

 

Using several rhinos to make a firewall(blocking incoming fire), and then several rhinos to slow down the enemy around turn 2 or 3, set up the majority of the marines to blaze the enemy targets with bolter fire.

 

Rolling forward with short range specialists and tank shocking with all the concentrated melee you can manage while blocking off support with the rhinos tank shock wall(s) among the enemy.

 

 

Various versions, share how you run with your army. What you've done, and all around how well it performs with what support you chose for them. Mostly mecha oriented though, for best feedback. (Less support/more numbers is in a class of its own somewhat)

[IronWinds]

I was just thinking about this today.

 

In every game... my marines always do the best. And I've been considering dropping more HS to add on more troops but it doesn't seem IWish. I already have 48 marines(not counting HQ, termies, etc) in one of my 1850 lists and at least 40 in my HS heavy lists. I'm thinking about 50 and dumping a HS and my terminators, or just go for a full house 60 marines in 6 rhinos.

 

 

My army list revolves around... and well has revolved around this since back when 4th ed came out(not 4th ed chaos, the 4th ed BB).

 

Fast demon prince

 

0-1 terminators w/ plas or melta

 

2 rhinos-PF/meltas

2 rhinos-PW/flamers

0-1 rhino-bezerkers

 

2-3 HS, normally 2-4 oblits + a vindi or defiler.

 

 

I've been moving towards always having 3 heavies and contemplating the following

 

DP

terminators-meltas

4 rhinos(same as above, but champ have combi-flamers/meltas now)

3 defilers

 

But then I have a games like my last ones where I go up against TH/SS heavy Space Wolves and all terminator/LR deathwing and win. Defiler=killed a rhino, oblitsA=killed some termies, oblitsB-killed a LR, DP-killed some marines. Of those only oblitsA earned their points back. 1 more turn and DP would have, and defiler might have. My marines on the other hand.... FlamerA: 6-8 terminators+Chaplain, stopped the enemies attack dead in its tracks on the right flank and that was against 2 terminator squads + crusader. Reinforcements helped them finish the other terminators. FlamerB: 4-6 TH/SS terminators+grimnar, bezeker reinforcements helped them finish off remaining terminators. They stopped the enemies charge down the middle. MeltaA: some marines, toasted a rhino, shook a LR(shot was at 12"). MeltaB: some marines, rhino, Crusader. Either they earned their points back, or they were at least living end game and killed something. Melta squads came up on the right and had whiped away everything in their path. 1 more turn and would of been moving onto some shooty dreadnoughts who would of loved my meltas.

 

Games like that... make me want more marines. Short game after that. Defiler died, oblits killed a little. Marines: well they killed everything. Probably 30 demons, 16+ bezerkers, a LR packed full of terminators, and a dreadnought. Crap I had 1 squad in a rhino lead a charge against a LR full of termies and a dread... I knew they would win... and with some help when my DP jumped into the fray they did.

 

 

Makes me want to field more CSMs. They have never, ever ever let me down. I love my IWs :P.

 

Strategy I normally use. Marines move up. Terminators DS nearby to provide support where needed. DP follows rhinos for cover and jumps in where he is needed. Defiler provide cover fire while walking behind rhinos(when faced with lots of enemy guns DP walks behind defiler so he can leapfrog into combat). When enemies get nearby defilers run+fleet into combat. Basically everything revolves around my marines though.

[chillin]

I always go hvy troops. They never let me down, whether it's a fully loaded squad with melta/flamer, PF champ, in rino w/ x armor or a footslogging 2 plaz, no champ squad. They alway seem worth their points, and often pull of something kind of unexpected.

My opponents are often rather concerned when they realize they are outnumbered by csm's :P

My armies and game plan definately center around my troops (mostly csm's), everything else (hvy support, HQ, termicide), I consider support units.

[goldenwonder]

As I've started playing larger games, the value of the basic CSM squad has time and time again, hence staring at me from my painting table are a further two ten-man squads [dual flamer & dual melta] (brining my total available to five ten-man squads with different options - the new squads being modelled mainly for extra configuration options, as two units are from the last codex edition and have two Plasma Guns and no Icons).

 

CSM squads certainly seem to pull surprises out of the bag. I my last game against a regular opponants Crimson Fists, a ten-man squad with P/F Champ, IofCG, Heavy Bolter and Plasma Gun stood off against a five-man Storm Shield Terminator Squad lead by Lysander, killing two Terminators to shooting and wounding Lysander. Then, after absorbing the charge proceeded to wipe out the Terminators in one round of combat whilst the Asp Champ killed Lysander in two rounds of combat. Now, this may have been unlucky dice on my opponants part but it highlighted to me that the basic squad should never be underestimated.

 

This was seconded in a number of games against Space Wolves whose multiple Grey Hunter packs are an absolute pain in the rear.

 

My troops units tend to act in pairs covering each others weakness, as experience has taught me to tailor units for a specific role effectively rather than trying to do a bit of everything poorly. With the exception of my defensive unit shown in the example above who camps on my objective , all my troops are mounted in Rhinos for mobility and extra protection.

 

I cannot comment so much on the Cult troops as I have only a couple of games experience with my Bezerkers.

 

However, for versatility and value for points the basic CSM squad is very tough to beat.

[sexiest_hero]

Chaos horde with no tanks!

 

I'll be the odd man out, put in for huge units of troops with daemons. Everybody is loading up on melta to the point where you have things like air-cav lists and land raider lists. One thing about light transports is that they give up kill poins really easy, and land raiders costs tons of points. I think the basic CSM trooper, is point-for ablility one of the best in the game. Simply taking a big unit pretty much insures you take what you want, when you want. I usually don't want things slowed by my rhinos, because i'm usually safe in the knowlage that point for point my units canpretty much handle what ever comes. 15 CsM will hold any objective, or take it from any other troop choice out thier. plus it's hard to pri a kill point from them. If they want to come in to fight fine bolter them up and finish them off. they want to sit back and fire, fine waste your shots on one troop choice in cover while Mr. DP flies over and plays with ya.

 

With our ablility to deepstrike our other troop choice lesser daemons able to deepstrike without error, and huge squads of CSM, it's easy to claim/ contest out of the way objectives while holding the ones you want, hell string them out to cover more than one objective.

 

Kill points. Target light transports, if you kill 3 transports , you can insure the other army has to wipe out up to 60 CSM to get those same points back. Be a butt and hide you HQ of choice in the squads. I've beaten IG cav lists by taking out the Command squad and Psyker battle squad chimera and letting him feed me kp after kp. Air-cav drops of small units of vets in a hard to hit skimmer, not a big deal in the big picure of things. After having huge units of CSM beat down unit after unit, I have come to love them. Use the with our cheap turmies, and cheap havocs and you cut down half the lists out thier that rely on pure melta.

[minigun762]

In every game... my marines always do the best. And I've been considering dropping more HS to add on more troops but it doesn't seem IWish. I already have 48 marines(not counting HQ, termies, etc) in one of my 1850 lists and at least 40 in my HS heavy lists. I'm thinking about 50 and dumping a HS and my terminators, or just go for a full house 60 marines in 6 rhinos.

 

 

Makes me want to field more CSMs. They have never, ever ever let me down. I love my IWs ;).

 

I'm in the same boat, I love my little Rhino squads, they are the foundation that the rest of the army is built upon. I've even gone from 3 HS in 1500 games to 2 to free up more points for CSMs..

 

Tactically, I find they work best in pairs, why send just one squad when 2 is safer. With 40+ guys, you're still able to go after multiple objectives/units at the same time while maintaining a localized advantage for the most part.

 

The biggest drawback for an all CSM army is the limited range of your units. At best, you're talking about 26" with a 12" Rhino + 2" disembark + 12" rapid fire. Now against the majority of armies, thats totally sufficient, but against armies with fast moving units like Eldar or where you really want to thin out their numbers at range like Orks, having some kind of long range firepower is nice. My 1st choice has always been the Defiler, I'll take my Battlecannon and Reaper for mobile dakka support.

[Vissah]

I use three squads of Marines and they are the backbone of my army.

I never send them in one at a time I just keep the three of them close togheter and they will back everyone up really nicely.

I also use Bikers so when I need some support somewere the Bikes are there in a sec.

I only got 2 Oblits as HS since IM not all into HS Im more into close range fighting with some fast elements, I also use a Termi squad with HQ to teleport in and supprt were needed :unsure:

 

But like I said the Marines are the ones that win you the game and that will last the whole game.

[Mr. Sandbot]

I feel odd then cause I've only ever used a naked 5 man squad of CSM to act as fodder for my rubrics. Although, they have saved my arse several times, my regular rubrics are the whole reason I joined chaos from the imperials: the basic space marine bored the ever loving hell out of me. Not to mention I only ever play against space marines (which Thousand Sons do wonderfully).

 

The way I run my army is just loading up my T-sons and carting them around so they can unload AP3 hell on people. Whatever isn't effected by bolters gets popped by my oblits or by my predator, while I avoid CC with either my cheap CSM, lesser daemons, or raptors. The Daemonprince is there to cause more chaos and to laugh maniacally. You can tell this plan has failed quite a few times, but its so much fun to roll with.

[Requiemnex]

I run three troops choices almost exclusivly.. 1 melta squad 1 plasma squad and 1 squad of khorne zerkers. Slog the plasma and rhino up the zerkers and melta squad. I usually rush the melta squad up bust something and then charge the zerkers into whatever is left. Run my plasma as either defensive for take and hold or run them in the anti ordinance donut somewhere supporting one squad of obliterators or deamon prince. I love plasma almost as much as I love my first born child. Playing for kill points last sunday I had a guy drop pod 7 plague marines on me (using renegades from the imperial armor book) Then first thing he expected was for me to rapid fire my plasma into his marines. Instead I shot at the drop pod for the easy kill point. Glanced it and rolled a 6. Open topped so SPLAT. Plasma cannon obliterator took out most of the plague marines. I just find the 10 man plasma squad to be so great.

 

 

I actually am picking up 20 more marines in the near future and can not wait to go more troop heavy.

[LuNCHBiZZLe]

I agree total with the Troops= best bang for your buck/points,in 1500 I run 3 10 man squads in 2000 I run 5 10 man squads and at 2500 I run 6,and by far they win me games not only having 1 hell of an amount of troops to hold objectives but they are also great just for there survivability and fire power.