Do you want your next DH or WH codex, just GK and Sob codex?

[The Holy Heretic]

I wouldn't like seeing Inq's leave either. I think (and hope) they will still do a codex DH, however give the player the option to make a more viable pure GK list as well.

 

Booh! Hiss! :P

 

I want my grey knights cool and super elite. For that they need the Inquisition and ISTs to make them look good - and rare. Playing the 'Silver Angels' or 'Blood Knights' holds absolutely no appeal to me. The mix between ultra heavy elites, and sacrificial 'elite' stormtroopers is what makes the army special :) So they shouldn't waste time on making a viable pure GK list, but instead a full well rounded and balanced list :)

 

But toning the psychic part of the army up could be very cool :)

[Dogface]

I would actually like to see PAGK's get feel no pain (with all of their elite training, this isn't a stretch) which would help against close quarters, rapid fire situations and then have the fast attack PAGK's get something akin to Gates of Infinity, in addition to deep strike. Lastly, turn the shrouding into a 4+ or 5+ cover save (Keeps the same "flavor" as the current shrouding).

 

 

See my idea for Shrouding... post is above yours.

[3720to1]

i would like to see a pure Sisters and with a little bit more added to the army to beef it up abit

 

1. Sisters dont really have another troop choice id like to see zealots or something to that effect

 

2. more special characters i can only do so much with the Saint

 

3. Plastics please!

 

4. bit more range of heavy choices dont get me wrong i love my d6 rockets from my exorcists

[Gentlemanloser]

I would like a Pure GK Codex. But currently there isn't enough units to make that a viable option.

 

And i'd hate to see the GK turned into the Grey Mrines, just to fill a Codex.

 

That invariably forces GW to include Inquisitorial units into a GK Codex.

 

The only problem with that, is you then reproduce the majority of the Inquisitorial Units for the SoB. And if you go down that route, why not mrege the two into a single Codex?

 

Personally, I still remain of the option that the GK should have been inlcuded as a couple of special units in the SM 'dex (And on top that there doesn't need to be so many individual SM Dexes anyway... Just give the DA/BA/BT a chapter IC or two, and a handful of special units/rules. Like a HQ to let you take Termies as Troops, and an EC that gives your entire army a Vow. Samael isn't needed as there's already the option for Bikes as Troops. The Death Company could have been inlcuded as a LotD like entry. That sort of thing.)

[morcus]

For a pure sisters list they should bring back Frateris militia as a troop choice, I also think there should be an option for sisters without power armour as new recruits or penitents of some kind and more special kinds of Sister. I'd really like to see a repentia option closer to the Inq version as a loner, Preferably as a sniper.

 

Of course all that could be done with the current codex and counts as but its not the same.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

Busting out the old sister's codex, there were quite a few special characters, so some of those coming back would be pretty cool. I second the notion of there being another sisters based troop choice, and I think that pure ecclesiarchy (read: not pure sisters, necessarily, but sisters, frateris millitia, penitent engines, missionaries, and what have you) and GK army books with a third containing the Inq. stuff and rules for allying would be the best.

 

Honestly, it seems like a waste of time to send storm troopers after anything that the GK would be called on to fight, as all they'd do is get greased, and if they didn't, they'd have to be mind wiped at best, or most likey killed, just for seeing what they saw.

 

On the topic of plastic vs. metal, you guys who WANT there to be a total of 5 poses to choose from in your army are crazy. I grew up with the metal models, and I have to say, after 15 years in this hobby, I am sick of having metal shavings everywhere. Metal armies are infuriating to me at this point. Having some metal models is no problem (I love my metal dread that people pick up and go all bug eyed!), but having zeerroo customizability without busting out a chainsaw and an arc-welder is not what I call "quality modeling", I call it "why isn't this in plastic yet?"

[SamaNagol]

On the topic of plastic vs. metal, you guys who WANT there to be a total of 5 poses to choose from in your army are crazy. I grew up with the metal models, and I have to say, after 15 years in this hobby, I am sick of having metal shavings everywhere. Metal armies are infuriating to me at this point. Having some metal models is no problem (I love my metal dread that people pick up and go all bug eyed!), but having zeerroo customizability without busting out a chainsaw and an arc-welder is not what I call "quality modeling", I call it "why isn't this in plastic yet?"

 

*rousing applause from the back of the room*

[Xelloss]

I also think there should be an option for sisters without power armour as new recruits

I had the same idea of taking new recruits into my army, an IG platoon works quite fine IMO (without powerarmor they can't use boltgun, so lasgun, and the command squad can be the novice's supervisor and her staff)

 

Hmmm... I see giving the Justicar in the squad access to the SM Gate of Infinity power. It would be very useful for mobility purposes... and there would be the additional bit of LEAVING a CC battle that was going really poorly.

I love that idea. It would be also quite fluffy, as when you deal with a daemonic infestation you would likely try to destroy the greater ones and leave the small fries behind...

[SamaNagol]

PAGK will never get psychic powers. That's first off. Secondly Gate of Infinity doesn't have a mechanic which is consistent with any existing background of the Grey Knights.

 

They get 'ported in and then extracted when the job is done. They don't get ported around the battlefield like moles popping up out of that arcade mallet game. It would take an overhaul of the background to give them this.

 

I am all for GKT and PAGK getting a much more reliable precision strike version of the Teleport rules. That makes sense, would actually make it a viable method of deployment and is within the confines of existing background.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I love that idea. It would be also quite fluffy, as when you deal with a daemonic infestation you would likely try to destroy the greater ones and leave the small fries behind...

 

:blink: Huh? You're supposed to destroy ALL the daemons, get back to work! :P

[Xelloss]

Secondly Gate of Infinity doesn't have a mechanic which is consistent with any existing background of the Grey Knights.

I forgot GW never ever changed the background to fit new units or rule changes. Wait...

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Secondly Gate of Infinity doesn't have a mechanic which is consistent with any existing background of the Grey Knights.

I forgot GW never ever changed the background to fit new units or rule changes. Wait...

 

Just because they can, does not mean they should.

[the jeske]

I forgot GW never ever changed the background to fit new units or rule changes.

GK are already there as a unit. giving them gate doesnt earn more sales and GW only does "they were there all alonge" move only when the new unit is bound to generate sales. A psychic power does not need a model. So it wont happen.

 

Now veteran GK in power armor that could happen.

[Empty Bolter Clip]

Short story: I would like to still see atleast a single Inquisitor entry make it into the codex...

 

Long Story: I was (and still am) hoping for a combined =][= instead of keeping them separate like they currently are... not sure if that is still in the cards given the current rumors, but I can hope! So, my comments are still from the "combined codex" point of view, but I want the option for taking Inquisitors as well as having them required to take certain things like assassins. Since they said that they wouldn't want as high of an emphasis on Inquisitors, in a "combined codex" I could see them doing a more generic entry for Inquisitors and leaving it up the player personal fluff to label them as DH or WH Inquisitors. Afterall, the current Inquisitors are so similar, the only difference being some gear pieces and psychic powers. With just a single, unified Inquisitor entry, you could take it one step and do a single unified henchmen section too. The current WH and DH dex share several henchmen entries, and I could argue that WH Inquisitors could find a use for astropaths/Mystics, and a DH Inquisitor could need a medic to slap a bandaid in a firefight. a "Combined codex" would also mean just a single entry for ISTs and Assassins as well.

 

That's my 2 bolter casings worth...

 

Empty Bolter Clip

[Gibious]

Well thats what I would call an ideal codex. Forget DH or WH. Call it "The Inquisition".

 

Majority of GK just need a slight tweek for survivability and anti-tank. And sisters may get some too. And then the introduction of DeathWatch. For fluffy you could go all one ordo but mix and match is effective. (Deamons?)

 

This is not even a lot of units. This makes in total:

 

HQ:

Inquisitor, Cannoness, GK Hero

Elite:

DCA, Imperial Assassin, Celestian, Terminators, Deamonhosts, Repentia, Arco, Priest

Troops:

GK, SOB, IST, Deathwatch

Fast:

Serephim, Other potential fast units

Heavy:

Lance, Deathwatch Heavy Team, LR Varients, Exorcists, Dreads

 

With a collection of units needing requirements/denying other choices, thats quite a small codex still.

 

And about metal to plastic, not everything gets re-cast. I would be happy with just a Deathwatch conversion blister, plastic sisters and a Plasmacannon Servitor!

 

-Gib-

[Validar]

tbh I wouldn't like to see a unified codex either.

 

I like to think of the ordos as different things and while they might stand together at times they ultimately prefer to work alone.

 

This is why I think that you should keep each ordo unique. Playing Grey Knights is a certain type of game and playing Sisters of Battle is another all together. Having a cannoness leading two squads of grey knights? No thank you...

 

While I agree that most inquisitor stuff should be the same, I don't understand why a herectus would carry a book of deamon names and so on.

 

What I would like to see is two new codices with a lot of new options. Keep all the good stuff, but expand the codex and give it more depth and fill it with possibilities. Compare the deamonhunter codex with the space marine codex, the space marines have tons and tons of options when it comes to costumizing your HQ, outfitting your squads, playing with different concepts (there is the drop pod space marines, the bike space marines etc.) and that is not even mentioning all the special characters and the cost-effectiveness.

 

In short: Don't merge the codices, but expand the current ones.

[Xelloss]

Just because they can, does not mean they should.

But that means your real argument isn't the one you gave.

 

tbh I wouldn't like to see a unified codex either.

 

I like to think of the ordos as different things and while they might stand together at times they ultimately prefer to work alone.

 

This is why I think that you should keep each ordo unique. Playing Grey Knights is a certain type of game and playing Sisters of Battle is another all together. Having a cannoness leading two squads of grey knights? No thank you...

But having one codex doesn't mean you can mix the units together : in the last one you couldn't take daemonhost and GK - that can be applied with a system of HQ unlocking unit choices.

And about the gear, do you think an inquisitor watching an heretical cult and learn that they have summoned daemon will say "let's go home, not my domain" ? No, he will mobilize the appropriate force... and gear. For exemple Einsenhorn is from ordo hereticus, but mostly fight daemons in the novels...

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Just because they can, does not mean they should.

But that means your real argument isn't the one you gave.

 

:D You've lost me. I'll try and guess at what you meant anyway.

 

This principle only invalidates my previous argument if I intend to pursue that to the death. I don't. Gate of Infinity is a handy mechanic, but that does not mean I value it above all else. If it means turning Grey Knights into Codex: Grey Marines in order to get that mechanic in, then you will not find me supporting it. I value the fluff behind the Grey Knights much more than any single game mechanic.

 

Holding an opinion does not mean that I am incapable of imposing limits on how far I take it. I would support Gate of Infinity up to the point where fluff is altered for the sake of getting it in. At that point, my interest in the fluff and my interest in GoI conflict, and I choose to continue with supporting the fluff.

 

I wouldn't have thought it was that hard to interpret my posts to be compatible rather than finding contradictions. :D

[Artein]

Guys, you need to understand one thing. Sisters of Battle are not a part on Inquisition. They are an armed force of Ecclesiarchy, which also is not a part of Inquisition.

Also Arco-flagellants and Penitent Engines are tools of Ecclesiarchy, not Inquisition.

[Validar]

@xelloss: As far as I remember, Eisenhorn is from the Ordo Xenos.

 

And I will counter your question with one of my own: If you had 3 swords of killing-demons-really-hard, who would you give 'em to: The herectus or the mallus? :)

[Valerian]

I don't know when Valerian was last visiting the Inquisition Codex project, but I wonder whether anyone would believe in what we currently use as the to the Shrouding Problem. It is effectively a psychic power that forces enemies to reroll successful rolls to hit for a whole turn, so it works at all ranges and in close combat as well. Still doesn't help against blasts though. Needs more work, as usual.

 

7eAL,

 

I had a look around a week or so ago, but there are literally hundreds of posts to go through, and it is easy to get lost through the project. I will look around some more when I get time after getting back home after vacation. I'll probably send you a PM about it too.

 

Best regards,

 

V

[Inquisitor Fox]

Guys, you need to understand one thing. Sisters of Battle are not a part on Inquisition. They are an armed force of Ecclesiarchy, which also is not a part of Inquisition.

Also Arco-flagellants and Penitent Engines are tools of Ecclesiarchy, not Inquisition.

As per the fluff, the Sisters of Battle perform two roles simultaneously. They are the armed force of the Ecclesiarchy, and in addition are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. This makes them Both a part of the Ecclesiarchy as well as a part of the Inquisition. You are correct in terms of the Arco-flagellants and Penitent Engines, which is why those units have a Priest required to be able to be fielded in the current Codex.

 

Eisenhorn is indeed a member of Ordo Xenos. However also in the Eisenhorn trilogy we have evidence of Inquisitors moving between the Ordos (at least one Inquisitor goes from Malleus to Hereticus). Remember the Inquisition isn't exactly a formal place, relationships among other Inquisitors and the Ordos are very fluid. I think of the Ordos and philosophies (Thorian, Amalathian, etc) more as a social club of like interests and expertise. If an Inquisitor has a background with daemons from personal experience, they may well work with the Ordo Malleus for a while and gain additional expertise and equipment. They may then find that their current studies are focused on another foe, perhaps the Tyranids as they examine the similarities between the Hive Mind and it's psychic abilities and the interaction with the Warp, and chat it up with the Ordos Xenos folks. Does this mean their expertise with daemons is suddenly removed? Should they turn in all their acquired gear they have collected in their various storehouses simply because they're looking at bugs for a while?

 

I personally think a combined Codex: Inquisition with various requirements to field certain units based on HQ or other army choices (similar to the current unlocking system) is perhaps the best way to represent this fluid relationship in the current game setup. However, I am quite curious to see what GW actually does with it :D

[number6]

I personally think a combined Codex: Inquisition with various requirements to field certain units based on HQ or other army choices (similar to the current unlocking system) is perhaps the best way to represent this fluid relationship in the current game setup. However, I am quite curious to see what GW actually does with it :P

I have a hunch that much of the Inquisitorial units will disappear. I hope I'm wrong, but ... just my gut feeling. We all know that allies and induction will be disappearing, as GW has long stated that they don't like those rules and think that one codex should always be 1-stop-shopping for an army build. And of the few rumors that have been circulating, they've always talked about "Codex: Grey Knights" and "Codex: Sisters of Battle". Cool in their own right ... but then what becomes of the Inquisition? Maybe they will reveal a new army: "Codex: Inquisition" ... but that seems unlikely and also, if done, a longer ways off yet than either of these two proposed updates to the DH and WH codexes.

 

Like you, I've long desired a combined Inq codex because I feel that's the only way to accurately represent the fluff. Anything else would have to be a subset of that fluff rather than the meatier versions we currently have today.

 

Curiouser and curiouser....

[Artein]

This is a symbol of Ecclesiarchy, not Inquisition

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/b/bf/Adeptus_Ministorum_Symbol.jpg/100px-Adeptus_Ministorum_Symbol.jpg

Sisters don't have any Inquisition symbols.

You can compare those symbols here.

 

Sisters of Battle are mostly fighting on their own (for Ministorum). Ordo Hereticus is using them as often as Space Marines, so not very often....

Sororitas even had their own codex in 2nd edition. It was a sin of 3rd ed. that they were thrown into one bucket with Ordo Hereticus, because of the Inquisition game....

They are a distinctive and capable of fighting on their own army, with great fluff and nice (a bit old, but still good looking) design. They deserve to have their own codex.

 

edit: as for Inquisition units, I'd love to see a mini-dex or a WD update with Inquisitors and Assassins for all armies of the Imperium.

[Inquisitor Fox]

My apologies on the symbol, at 28mm scale it's a bit hard to see the detail as they're pretty identical at that range :P I have edited my previous post to correct the mistake.

 

In terms of the 2nd ed codex though, that I am familiar with as I own a copy. Even in the 2nd ed Codex their relationship with the Ordo Hereticus and the Convocation of Nephilim was written into the Codex fluff. Ergo, they've always been envisioned as having some sort of agreement with the Inquisition, it simply wasn't much talked about. That relationship was simply expanded in 3rd edition and given a slight bit more detail. They're very unique in that they have multiple roles and ties to multiple organizations, but they're by no means independant of the Inquisition, nor do they have autonomy like the Adeptus Astartes and Titan Legions of the Adeptus Mechanicus.