Do you want your next DH or WH codex, just GK and Sob codex?

[radical bob]

.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I don't see anything in the organisation of the Ordos that would impede a Hereticus Inquisitor from acquiring TDA [including everything you mentioned], and that was my point.

 

Besides the influence required to get TDA, you need also to have a source. Malleus can get it through the Chamber Militant, but Hereticus can't really take that route since Sisters don't use TDA. There isn't a standing order to TDA that you could attach a one-time custom order to, unlike the Malleus supply of TDA for the Grey Knights.

[SamaNagol]

I would imagine that Malleus and Hereticus Inquisitors would be seperate entries in a combined book. That way they comply to the current trend of set wargear upgrades, not an armoury.

[- 7eAL -]

When this thread started I could forsee this thread devolving into wishful thinking and fluffy pillow fights. I think I see it slowly gathering steam.

... Sigh.

 

That's why, in a combined Codex, the fact that there would be wargear in the armoury [assuming that doesn't change] including TDA for the likes of Inquisitors, that would need the little asterisk that says Canonness, Palatine, VSS can't equip it.

In case you haven't been reading the new books, centralized armoury is abolished. I see no reason why it would be restored, especially for a codex that combines Astartes, Sororitas and human statlines. Due to the the differences in their statlines, different points costs would have to be established based on wound count, Strength, and Toughness resulting in an armoury with three to four different points costs per item dependent on specific factors. With more specific factors, there arises the possibility of exceptions to these specifics, further complicating armoury selection. Therefore it is better simply to use the new style wherein each unit has its own armoury options and points costs.

 

 

I don't see anything in the organisation of the Ordos that would impede a Hereticus Inquisitor from acquiring TDA [including everything you mentioned], and that was my point.

Besides the influence required to get TDA, you need also to have a source. Malleus can get it through the Chamber Militant, but Hereticus can't really take that route since Sisters don't use TDA. There isn't a standing order to TDA that you could attach a one-time custom order to, unlike the Malleus supply of TDA for the Grey Knights.

If I remember correctly, Terminator armour is effectively officially limited to the Astartes, Custodes and the Adeptus Mechanicus - and the Adeptus Mechanicus are generally not to go to war with it while the Custodes are not to leave Terra. Because the Ordo Malleus is the oldest branch of the Inquisition, and included a handful of Space Marines at its founding, and operates with the Grey Knights, it has access to Terminator armour. Because the Ordo Xenos also operates almost exclusively with the Deathwatch, it may also have some access to Terminator armour - but if they do, it is likely that their access is less because alien hunting is often a matter of fighting against a belligerent species or chasing a single fleeing creature, whereas daemonhunting is a matter of isolated wrestling matches with powerful individuals.

 

Also keep in mind that the Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos have better ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus than the Ordo Hereticus. The Ordo Hereticus and the Adeptus Ministorum of the Ecclesiarchy both alienate the Adeptus Mechanicus because Mars is not wholly and singularly loyal to the Imperium and the Imperial Creed, and so the Adeptus Mechanicus respond in kind by reducing its support for those two. The same coolness would be found in most Hereticus and Ministorum relationships.

Edit: Especially after the Vandire Age of Apostasy fiasco. Nobody would trust the Ecclesiarchy again after that kind of thing ...

[Valerian]

One should keep in mind that the psycanon is our heavy bolter replacement and not our assault canon replacement.

I therefore think that it should stay like it is atm. If we realy want some anti vehicle firepower then why not a missile launcher

which gets the same treatment? ( str.9, ap3, ignores invul throws ). It could be rationalised as having a psionicaly charged warhead or something like that.

 

Well other than range, the Psycannon had the same stats as the Assault Cannon in 3rd Edition; both were Heavy 3 (shots), Strength 6, AP 4. So it originally was more akin to the Assault Cannon than the Heavy Bolter (which was only Strength 5).

 

When 4th Edition came out the Assault Cannon, which a staple in all versions of Marine armies was updated to become Heavy 4, as well as Rending. However the Psycannon, which is only found in the Daemonhunter Codex, obviously never got a 4th Edition, or yet a 5th Edition revision/upgrade, so it now appears to much closer to the Heavy Bolter. If you hadn't been playing Grey Knights from 3rd you would not know how closely linked the PsyC and AssC used to be.

 

This is why the other poster recommended the same treatment for the PsyC that the AssC received long ago.

 

7eAL brings up a great point though, about how significant Rending would be for the PsyC given how that would combine with the ability to ignore Invulnerable Saves it already has. I suppose then the best thing would be just to significantly reduce it's price (10/15 is more than fair), and just add a Lance-type of psychic power for high-strength and low AP shots at Daemon Engines and Chaos Vehicles.

 

V

[Inquisitor Fox]

When this thread started I could forsee this thread devolving into wishful thinking and fluffy pillow fights. I think I see it slowly gathering steam.

... Sigh.

With this in mind, lets please keep this thread on track as per the intent of the Original Poster. We have enough other threads about 'If I was designing the Codex I'd.." or "Wouldn't it be nice if.." and so on and so forth.

 

Let's try to keep those comments in their appropriate places, or perhaps help out - 7eAL - with the Inquisition Project as per the rules and regulations he has in that particular endeavor.

 

I'd hate to have to declare Exterminatus on something within my first week :)

[- 7eAL -]

I'd hate to have to declare Exterminatus on something within my first week <_<

Well, to be honest we're on page five and the pilot lights on the flamers haven't started moving about in the dark yet, so we're good for a while longer. If a few of us stall long enough, and you mods say a few smart and charming things while subtly leaning on your meltas, we might all get warm and friendly enough that the steam will dissipate.

Otherwise, I think the lack of update over the last few years has left us all rather jaded. The long believers in the Inquistion and its Chambers and Ordos generally seem a bit quieter and more lenient - I can pick out a few names off the top of my head, myself included. I can recall maybe three or four years ago that there would be all sorts of stubbornness over "more Dreadnoughts", "less Dreadnoughts", "what about Grey Knight Predators" and so on by this point. The fact that we're not all as thick-headed as we used to be is a good sign for our (not-so) humble crew.

 

A good sign - that is long as Games Workshop doesn't take that as a sign of complacency and decide that we don't care what we get, as long as we get some attention.

That definitely is not true. We still know what a bad codex looks like, and I imagine most of us wouldn't like to be given poor codices, and would rather have no attention at all.

[number6]

I must admit to being more lenient than most when it comes to "OT" discussion. <_< So long as I'm not seeing non-sequiturs or flying fists, I'm generally pretty open to what transpires.

 

As INP said, though, this forum has seen more than it's fair share of "wish list" topics. And for a while, they were heated enough that I regularly shut them down. I'm glad that this one has so far proceeded calmly. :lol:

 

You guys are the reason that this remains the best Inquisition resource on the web. Keep up the good work! (But do at least attempt to remain focused, please. )

[Inquisitor Fox]

I tend to prefer to nip problems in the bud before they're a disaster, thus far everything has been fine and orderly, so consider it more of a friendly reminder than being truly worried :)

 

I don't mind a bit of off topic or a segway into a tangent, as long as we kind of try to mostly attempt to keep to what the topic was about *grins* I do like that we're generally fairly level headed here in the OI, and I'd hate to have that go by the wayside.

 

Anyways, carry on :huh:

[MadCowCrazy]

Didnt read every single post so shame on me if someone allready mentioned this.

 

I dont think they will remove the Inquisitional units, if they did allot of elite choises would be removed.

 

There are some changes I would really like to see though.

 

If they made a Pure SoB codex I would really like to see the Sister Repentia get the Adepta Sororitas rule so you could use Acts of Faith on them. Maby make the mistress Faithful and if she dies you cant use AoF anymore. Would be a tradeoff between getting the extra movement when she dies or keep her for the AoF.

Sister Repentia used to be Battle Sisters so this would make sence to me, or have their crimes been so bad they lost their "faith"? Is that why they want to die in battle so badly?

 

I would allso like to see some changes to the Allies Rules, like the no Sisters and SM rule. This rule is retarded because you can bypass it by making a DH army and bring in Sisters and SM allies. So if Sisters and Space Marines have no problem working together when called to aid the DH why wont they if the Sisters call them directly?

Same goes from Grey Knights, why wont they work with SM when they call upon them? But if a WH army calls upon them both they have no problems working together. That rule should be removed imo since the rules allow you to bypass it anyways.

 

I would allso like to see some updates to what allies you can bring from the IG codex. The ability to make Leman Russ Squads and/or the option to chose which Leman Russ design you want to field (Punisher, Executioner etc).

 

Allowing the Sisters to chose different LR designs for the IQL would also be nice, like the Crusader.

 

 

Back on topic, I would not mind combining both the DH and WH codex into 1. This would solve allot of the outdated rules problems.

A solo GK and SoB codex could work but we would have to get some new units to replace the ones we lose and a complete revamp of the allies system.

We would lose the Inquisitors as HQ and Elite choises, we would allso lose the Assassins except for Death Cult and the IQStorm Troopers would be gone.

If we lost these the allies system wouldnt work anymore for allies SM since to get them you are forced to use IQL and IQST.

 

When I asked the GW phone operator on an eta on a new codex for WH and DH he just told me it will still be 1-2 years before its out.

From what I have read it seems Necrons and Dark Eldars are getting new codexes first and once those are done we WH/DH will get ours.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I would allso like to see some changes to the Allies Rules, like the no Sisters and SM rule. This rule is retarded because you can bypass it by making a DH army and bring in Sisters and SM allies. So if Sisters and Space Marines have no problem working together when called to aid the DH why wont they if the Sisters call them directly?

Same goes from Grey Knights, why wont they work with SM when they call upon them?

 

Because if the Chamber Militant are available, there's no point wasting your hard-earned favours by calling on the Space Marines. They're not at your beck and call.

[Adeptus Templar]

Haven't read the whole thread or anything but why don't they, GW, give us an Inquisition codex that is broken up by Ordo (each having their own section) and then have 3 mini codices: GK, SoB and Xenos. So that if people want to have inducted or allied SM or IG they just use the IQ codex and yet there is still the possibility of going pure GK, SoB or Xenos for us puritans/purists. Oh and cant forget the radical IQ, there would be some room in there too for them.

 

Oh and if someone has already said this... well, too bad :P

 

EDIT: coherency

[- 7eAL -]

Haven't read the whole thread or anything but why don't they, GW, give us an Inquisition codex that is broken up by Ordo (each having their own section) and then have 3 mini codices: GK, SoB and Xenos. So that if people want to have inducted or allied SM or IG they just use the IQ codex and yet there is still the possibility of going pure GK, SoB or Xenos for us puritans/purists. Oh and cant forget the radical IQ, there would be some room in there too for them.

Too much work, not enough appreciation. If anyone managed to write such a complex book alone, he or she should become a living saint of some kind, and would soon be put to task coordinating almost every other book and ruleset for centralized overarching consistency. A person with such advanced data and outcomes processing abilities would most likely find a more profitable career than games writing - professional gambling is always good.

[ArmouredWing]

When I asked the GW phone operator on an eta on a new codex for WH and DH he just told me it will still be 1-2 years before its out.

From what I have read it seems Necrons and Dark Eldars are getting new codexes first and once those are done we WH/DH will get ours.

I can believe that DE will be out before 'C:I' but I'm not as sure about necrons. Again, if the rumours are to be believed work has started on =][= minis & rules but as of yet we've to hear anything plausible or substantial in relation to necrons. I may be wrong but there again...

 

What I would say is that we may be in for some surprises in relation to forthcoming releases over the next couple of years. There were odds and ends about BA's leaking out but I got the impression that the general feeling was one of surprise when it was confirmed. With that being the case and considering what there is in the queue for updates I'd reckon that there's a good chance that stuff will be rejigged around so that we start to see a few more 'easter eggs' come out of GW.

 

For my money I'd have to say that Tau & Eldar are 2 viable contenders. Both have still got a good following and the mini line doesn't need an awful lot of work doing to it? Maybe a few special characters here or there?

[Brother Hadafix]

Personally, I would prefer to see GK and SoB done separately, and an Inquisitor codex done on top that could ally with only those two.

 

Why? Because an Inquisitor does not need to be on the field for GK to fight and the SoB can more or less pick their fights.

 

Why only those two? Because they are the two bodies that an Inquisitor would use more often.

 

That said, an Inquisitor codex could handle the Deathwatch and handle things with ISTs if they wanted to, depending on Ordo.

 

Has the GK and Jetbikes rumour been quashed? If not theres one FA for them.

 

This would open up far more scope and pull in far more money for GW which, one can only hope would transpire in to more releases, and armies being kept more up to date.

[Valerian]

Conceptually and thematically, the Grey Knights and the Sisters of Battle are nothing alike. They are very different armies in 40k, and rightfully so. The only thing they have in common is that they often work for/with the Inquisition. They don't even work for the same Order/Branch of the Inquisition, and the purposes, goals, agendas, and styles of those two organizations are about as different as they could possibly be.

 

Based on the above, I see no good reason to combine the two into a single book. To me, that would be akin to putting the Imperial Guard and Dark Angels in the same book; why would we want to do that?

 

The 5th Edition versions of these armies should be a single Codex Grey Knights, containing all of the current Grey Knights units (with updates/modifications to modernize the army), as well as the appropriate Inquisitorial units (Inquisitors, Assassins, Storm Troopers, etc.). Thus the book would be much as it is now, but with the focus more on the Chapter, than the Ordo, and everything brought up to 5th edition design standards. The whole Allied and Inducted rules would need a real hard look to make them work, or they'd need to be scrapped altogether.

 

Likewise, for the ladies, Codex Sisters of Battle should continue to focus on the Sisters, with appropriate supporting units from the Ecclesiarchy as well as the Inquisitorial units of the Ordo Hereticus.

 

I understand that they have to overcome the issue of viability, but I cannot stress enough how much I do not want a consolidated book.

 

Best regards,

 

V

[Magnus Thane]

Without the inquisition the grey knights are just a bunch of silvery colorcoded space boiz. They're just too cool to be just another marine chapter :D

 

The Inquisition adds cool assassins, and not to mention the all important ISTs to the list. Why are ISTs important, you ask? Because their feebleness makes our knights look even better in comparison. Its the same reason why pretty girls bring their ugly friend, when they're going out - so they look even better compared to the ugly girl. We need the assassins, cause we need to have things that are even more elite and specialized than the common astartes, because we're the finest the imperium of man has to offer.

 

Grey Knights may be our 'heroes', but they really are the most bland troops in our arsenal :) And the worst thing that could happen to DH is to become just another chapter of marines. If I wanted to play marines, I would have chosen Rainbow Warriors :rolleyes:

 

I disagree. I play collect pure GK and don't use IST's and the likes;

GK's are not blande or they would not have stood out as a choice for my 2nd army.

[swordsman157]

i think the best solution would be to make a pure gk codex

[chaplain belisarius]

followed by a pure SOB codex? then a really detailed book on inquisitors-all the different ordos are in there, along with all the fluff and you can take the inquisitor as a hq choice in any imperial army (he can commandeer any forces he wants-hes an inquisitor! who would say no?)

[Magnus Thane]

2 codices, three codices, 1 codex... matters not to me as long as:

- I can continue to play pure Grey Knights (and preferably more effectively)

- SoB's can still be played as an Ordo

- Inquisition either gets it's own 'thing' or is playable in combination with the two above.

[chaplain belisarius]

and we get some nice plastic SOB and GK? <_<

[The Holy Heretic]

Without the inquisition the grey knights are just a bunch of silvery colorcoded space boiz. They're just too cool to be just another marine chapter ;)

 

The Inquisition adds cool assassins, and not to mention the all important ISTs to the list. Why are ISTs important, you ask? Because their feebleness makes our knights look even better in comparison. Its the same reason why pretty girls bring their ugly friend, when they're going out - so they look even better compared to the ugly girl. We need the assassins, cause we need to have things that are even more elite and specialized than the common astartes, because we're the finest the imperium of man has to offer.

 

Grey Knights may be our 'heroes', but they really are the most bland troops in our arsenal :) And the worst thing that could happen to DH is to become just another chapter of marines. If I wanted to play marines, I would have chosen Rainbow Warriors <_<

 

I disagree. I play collect pure GK and don't use IST's and the likes;

GK's are not blande or they would not have stood out as a choice for my 2nd army.

 

You need to put an argument to that statement, if you want a chance at swaying my opininon - otherwise you're just saying that you have poor taste, subpar communication skills and an inflated ego :P

 

GKs alone are limited on models, variation of units, variation in tanks etc. etc. Thats bland in my book - especially when you put them besides any other chapter of colorcoded space boiz.

[andrewm9]

GKs alone are limited on models, variation of units, variation in tanks etc. etc. Thats bland in my book - especially when you put them besides any other chapter of colorcoded space boiz.

 

To be fair most codices of that age did not have many units at all. How many units do Necrons have in total? If DH had been produced say last year for the first time, I think you would see a dearth of units.

[Grand Master Caloth]

Not only that, but GKs are still Power Armor/Term Armor, and how often, really, do they take Inquisitors? In my opinion, Siege of Vraks III, that whole story of a T3 full-blooded HUMAN banishing AN'GARRATH is pure bologna. Yes, Rex is a mean mo-fo, but he's still human, and i dont see how any BUT GK would handle the Chosen of Khorne... Tranfering my fluff argument over to usable game-related... GKs are rock-hard and durable, so long as (like any marine) they dont start getting hammered by "pie-plates of no armour saves" and "Large Blasts of itty bitty Space Marine Parts". They dont need a HUGE variation in unit types as each GK is trained to fill several slots, but I am neither first nor last to say i would enjoy seeing some new unit types. I play Pure GK too, and in 4th ed i died lots of nasty, horrible deaths. 5th ed is a whole new ball game, and I've managed to remedy my W-L record, even bearing the fact that 5th ed favors Mech lists and the only Transports we get cost 250/255 points base. (our PAGK do not have access to the Rhino). It makes like a living hell, esp cause our Dex still supports Dedicated Transports so we technically cant just Hijack another of our units Transports (Sure as the Emperor doesnt stop me from doing it in Apoc. games tho... I supply troops and my allies supply transports/homing beacons. lol). Give us slightly better anti-armor, basically a decent chance of handling LR and other AR14 (or AR 13 walkers...), and a cheaper transport option (even if its just the Rhino), and we could be viable as we are. Added units are a big bonus tho. Cheers

[Adeptus Templar]

i think the best solution would be to make a pure gk codex

 

followed by a pure SOB codex? then a really detailed book on inquisitors-all the different ordos are in there, along with all the fluff and you can take the inquisitor as a hq choice in any imperial army (he can commandeer any forces he wants-hes an inquisitor! who would say no?)

 

Could not have said it better my self brothers <_<