Someone help me - I just got owned!

[Jamumools]

Wow, I just got my backside handed to me on a plate. Granted, I did tell my opponent what was in my army and asked him to write up a list specifically to beat me. I'm going to GT (on Saturday - must paint faster) and hadn't played Tau as yet so wanted to know what they do in case I come up against them. Ok, now I know they shoot the whatsit out of me! I'm not entirely sure what I would have done differently.

 

My army is:

 

Chaplain with Jump Pack

 

10 Assault Marines with Jump Packs, 2 flamers and a power fist.

 

10 Tactical Marines, in a Rhino, with Lascannon, Flamer and close combat weapon.

 

10 Tactical Marines, in a Rhino, with Missile Launcher, Melta Gun, and close combat weapon.

 

2 Tornados, with Multi Meltas and Flamers.

 

1 Typhoon

 

3 Dakka Predators.

 

5 Tactical Terminators with 2 chain fists and Cyclone Missile Launcher.

 

He had:

 

2 x 3 Crisis Battle Suits, all with twin linked plasma guns.

 

3 x Heavy Battle Suits (prob not their name) with twin-linked rail guns.

 

3 x Fire Warrior squads (12 guys) in their transport.

 

1 x Hammerhead with uber rail gun.

 

1 x lord in crisis suit - with one of the squads.

 

We had seize ground, 4 objectives. I let him go first which might have been a mistake, but then I seized the initiative anyway. His army was castled in the middle of his deployment, I'd spread out so the asault marines, 2 predators and a tactical squad were on one flank (where there were 2 objectives), along with the Tornados. The other flank had the other tactical squad, the other predator, and the Typhoon. I held the terminators in reserve to deep strike.

 

Normally, I favour a stand and shoot approach, with the assault squad and potentially the tactical squads ready as counter strike units. However, I figured I needed to get in close this time so my plan was to run the predators forwards and hide behind their armour 13. Yeah right! His first turn he took out the 2 tornados and 2 predators, and then next turn my other predator. My assault squad went down to turn of shooting from 2 squads of fire warriors and one squad of crisis suits (even with cover saves).

 

So, what approach would you guys have taken. I'm not changing the list at this late stage, and it generally serves me well anyway. Any thoughts you have would be great! And I'll hopefully see some of you in Nottingham on Saturday morning for a doughnut!!!!!

 

Cheers

 

James

[Grey Mage]

Those heavy battle suits are called Broadsides- hit them with heavy bolters until their shield drones die, then smother them with lascannons.

 

Battle suits on the other hand are simpler- Missile Launchers=Win. Every tactical squad should have one.

 

So... hit them with a dakka predator or two first, then shove missles up their armor to finish them off. Multimeltas will do the job too... again, after youve taken out the shield drones. Those speeders should probly target the hammerhead first really. Typhoon will be absolute god against crisis suits though.

 

Dont hide your predators- use them.

[Jamumools]

Sorry - I meant I was hiding the rest of my army behind the predators because they've got armour 13. TBH I might have better off shooting him for a turn or 2 - I only needed to kill one Broadside to cause a morale check and they'd have fled off the table... Then I could have started moving forwards to engage him in combat. Aside from the Broadsides and the Hammerhead most of his stuff is close range fire-fight so I could have actually made him come to me then jumped him with my superior manoeuvrability...

 

Oh well - you live and learn! Now painting predators maniacally!!!

[thade]

I kill Broadsides with Missile Launchers and snipers. =) And I lead my assault squad in either under heavy cover or inside of a Land Raider (which usually has smoke pouring out of everywhere in turn two, having been hammered weaponless by the Broadsides).

 

Marines really shine against Tau in assault. Even a Tac squad can pound a Fire Warrior team and send them running in a single round. Your assault squad will shred them once you get them close.

[Jamumools]

SMOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do I always forget to pop smoke????? Doh!!!!

[Sternguard sergeant McColl]

Included smoke launchers could be the greatest thing in C:SM

I less than three them.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Grey Mage and I seem in harmony about Marines v Tau.

 

IN GENERAL:

Tacs in a shoot-out lose to FW. When you bring a HB & Pg that changes things.

Tacs in cc are not great but FW lose a lot more when stuck in cc.

Tacs can lock up Crisis teams in cc. A PF will rip through them.

 

Anything a Tac can do in cc applies even more so for Assault squads.

 

4 MLs in a Dev squad are great for Crisis popping.

Don't take MLs for Tacs, LC are cheap and do in Broadsides and fair better v Armour.

 

YOUR LIST:

Your speeders will all pop Crisis teams. Use all three v one team.

Preds will do okay v Crisis

18 HB shots; 12 h, 8 w, 2.64 failed saves.

6 AC shots; 4 h, 3.32 w. 1.1 failed saves.

Maybe 2 dead suits? Not a great return pt for pt, but okay.

However, against FW they will mow them down. Only hiding in cover will give them hope.

 

You are light on for long range anti-tank. IMO.

 

WHAT I WOULD DO:

Target the Preds against Crisis until the Devilfish are opened.

Open the DF with the Speeders. Once they are open turn the Speeders against the Battlesuits.

 

You can combat squad the Tacs so you have two teams with heavy weapons firing away from your deployment zone. 1st target the Fish, then assess from there.

Haul the rest of the Tacs in Rhinos on your attack route to the Tau deployment. Use the Rhinos as a screen for the Chap + Assault combo. Feel free to then split the Chap away (because you have kept him in the squad to avoid being popped) if two targets present themself in one turn.

 

Apply the Terms as your discretion leads. Maybe even have them come down so the Rhinos obscure them? But you will need to think on your feet.

 

The rushing Rhinos + Chap/Ass combo will have him wonder the best thing to target: Preds, Speeders or Rushers?

 

You decide how the game is played, make him react to you.

[Jamumools]

Thanks guys - helpful stuff. I feel a lot better about the possibility of facing Tau tomorrow now.

[FabulousRex]

That's pretty good advice, G.Mage, push those Predators right down his throat ASAP. Even if they die first turn, with proper positioning, you will shield the rest of your force against his mobile shooting. Try and force him to leave cover and over-extend in order to get good shots on ya. The Preds vs this kind of army really are expendable, so put some nastiness behind the Preds and force the guy to kill your Preds to get at your troops.

[DarkKnightCuron]

As a Tau player, the biggest thing that gets me is having a lot of heavy targets. As discussed above, make your opponent choose which target to go after, then utilize those that were untouched to your advantage. Tau have an edge if you put too many eggs in one basket, as it were, as they can cut out the heart of an army fairly quickly, so stay flexible.

 

Markerlight Units. If he has them, you need to get rid of them right quick. More than once, I've used my Markerlights to completely nullify the effects of smoke launchers in order to open up a few armored vehicles (such as Rhinos, Land Raiders, etc).

 

You will need extra armor on your transports, simply because his basic weaponry can glance your Rhinos, and I've won games on the simple fact that I kept getting the 'Crew Stunned' result on people, because they thought that Extra Armor was 'too expensive'.

 

This is also something that you need to be wary off for your Land Speeders: Their basic weaponry can shoot them down. Be careful not to put your speeders in Rapid Fire range of his Firewarriors, because he'll gladly take the chance to down them, especially if they have Markerlight support.

 

Broadsides have a 2+ armor save, so the only thing that's going to rip them apart is going to be that Lascannon, Melta weaponry, and close combat shenanigans. Note that their shield drones will ALSO have a 2+ armor save as well, so dakka preds against that squad might not be the best of choices. As such, the Dakka pred should concentrate on those firewarriors and force leadership checks on them OR Take out those Devilfish Transports (which is preferable).

 

Your terminators will draw a ridiculous amount of firepower from battlesuits, mostly because his suits can outmaneuver your Terminators. I would really suggest either switching them out for something else or getting a transport for them. Footslogging with them is suicidal, and deep striking with them just means you're in Rapid fire range of, well, everything.

 

Your assault marines should have the singular job of either catching a Battlesuit squad and holding them in melee until they die (the Assault squad or the Battlesuits) or go straight after those Broadsides. Your Tactical squads should probably combat squad out, leaving the heavy weapon behind, and jump into those Rhinos. Those two teams of 5 Marines should team up and take down Fire Warriors squads one by one.

 

One of the things to watch for is the fact that Disruption Pods are CHEAP, and outside of 12", they have a universal 4+ cover save against anything.

 

Hope this helps.

[thade]

As a Tau player, the biggest thing that gets me is having a lot of heavy targets. As discussed above, make your opponent choose which target to go after, then utilize those that were untouched to your advantage. Tau have an edge if you put too many eggs in one basket, as it were, as they can cut out the heart of an army fairly quickly, so stay flexible.

This is really terrific advice right here: the one thing that started saving my Land Raider was putting something on the table that my opponents felt equally scared of: in my case, it was a Vindicator. :lol: In general, more heavies is I think a good choice.

[Firedrake28]

What I would have done differently: Asked the Tau player to field a "take all comers" style list rather than one geared specifically to kick my ass.

 

Reasoning? Because at a GT the chances of coming up against a Tau army that's designed to kill Marines and nothing else is pretty slim.

[rat of vengence]

I suggest taking scouts; outflank can deny him areas to hide his suits in.

 

Okay, I reread your post, no changing the list. As the others said, pressure him with a rush, but try to refuse flank. If you hoon up the right side, and can use terrain to block incoming heavy fire, or sacrifice a rhino to protect the side armour of a few vehicles, then you have a greater chance of gaining a better upfield position and hemming in those suits.

 

RoV

[Frater Marcus Scipio]

What I would have done differently: Asked the Tau player to field a "take all comers" style list rather than one geared specifically to kick my ass.

 

Very true. Although I should point out that the lists you'll see at the GT will likely be harder in other ways. As DarkKnightCuron points out they'll likely have marketlights. These have a 36" range and anything they target generally dies. Each markerlight hit provides a "token" that other squads can use to boost their BS or deny cover saves (e.g. an eight man pathfinder squad at BS# hits you four times, that means two of the crises suit teams could boost their BS to 5, assume a more std configuration of weapons Missiles and Plasma, and then hit you with 12 Str 7 missiles and 12 [if in rapid fire range] Plama at str 6 ap 2).

 

Also many Tau players only bring the minimum 6 fire warriors and then stick them in the pathfinder's devilfish (automatically comes with one) and then use kroot to fill out the troop choices. Kroot are much, much cheaper and if in woods and going to ground have a very decent cover save, if they throw some kroot hounds in their they can actually do well in CC vs. marines. Doing this would save the player a ton of points likely spent on getting more battlesuits, or another hammer head, or some pirhanas (their version of a landspeeder).

[DarkKnightCuron]

What I would have done differently: Asked the Tau player to field a "take all comers" style list rather than one geared specifically to kick my ass.

 

Reasoning? Because at a GT the chances of coming up against a Tau army that's designed to kill Marines and nothing else is pretty slim.

 

You would be surprised. Every tournament list I've seen other Tau players make is almost exclusively Anti-MEQ, with a small nod towards Ork Cheese.

 

What I would have done differently: Asked the Tau player to field a "take all comers" style list rather than one geared specifically to kick my ass.

 

Very true. Although I should point out that the lists you'll see at the GT will likely be harder in other ways. As DarkKnightCuron points out they'll likely have marketlights. These have a 36" range and anything they target generally dies. Each markerlight hit provides a "token" that other squads can use to boost their BS or deny cover saves (e.g. an eight man pathfinder squad at BS# hits you four times, that means two of the crises suit teams could boost their BS to 5, assume a more std configuration of weapons Missiles and Plasma, and then hit you with 12 Str 7 missiles and 12 [if in rapid fire range] Plama at str 6 ap 2).

 

Also many Tau players only bring the minimum 6 fire warriors and then stick them in the pathfinder's devilfish (automatically comes with one) and then use kroot to fill out the troop choices. Kroot are much, much cheaper and if in woods and going to ground have a very decent cover save, if they throw some kroot hounds in their they can actually do well in CC vs. marines. Doing this would save the player a ton of points likely spent on getting more battlesuits, or another hammer head, or some pirhanas (their version of a landspeeder).

 

I agree with the markerlight comment, however, the Kroot I don't generally agree with. Even if they have full squads of Kroot, without an armor save to speak of, the Tau player will have a LOT of problems with the objectives game, even if they use those 'saved' points on Battlesuits. To me, Kroot Spam in order to get more points for Battlesuits is putting far too many points into the Elites choices which, by the way, can be easily killed with a few lucky Missile Launcher shots.

 

Where I come from, other Tau players generally go with 3 - 4 Troop Choices of Firewarriors in Devilfish in order to be competitive on objectives and anti-infantry. Normally, they'll take two squads of Pathfinders and give those automatic Devilfish to two of the other Firewarriors squads in order to save points. I digress, however.

 

Going back on topic:

 

As the others said, pressure him with a rush, but try to refuse flank. If you hoon up the right side, and can use terrain to block incoming heavy fire, or sacrifice a rhino to protect the side armour of a few vehicles, then you have a greater chance of gaining a better upfield position and hemming in those suits.

 

This is a decent strategy, but again, if he has Markerlights, this might not be as effective as you'd want. In my opinion, presenting a unified, constantly advancing front will make him nervous and start to make mistakes. Whatever he doesn't shoot at, keep pressing forward. You CANNOT leave room for a Tau player to maneuver, because his vehicles can generally outmaneuver yours. Just because they don't have the name 'Eldar', doesn't mean they can't be just as mobile. Constricting his movements will let you catch him and force him into melee combat.

[Frater Marcus Scipio]

I agree with the markerlight comment, however, the Kroot I don't generally agree with. Even if they have full squads of Kroot, without an armor save to speak of, the Tau player will have a LOT of problems with the objectives game, even if they use those 'saved' points on Battlesuits. To me, Kroot Spam in order to get more points for Battlesuits is putting far too many points into the Elites choices which, by the way, can be easily killed with a few lucky Missile Launcher shots.

 

Where I come from, other Tau players generally go with 3 - 4 Troop Choices of Firewarriors in Devilfish in order to be competitive on objectives and anti-infantry. Normally, they'll take two squads of Pathfinders and give those automatic Devilfish to two of the other Firewarriors squads in order to save points. I digress, however.

 

I used to think that as well when I started playing Tau. When I take two pathfinder squads I do take two FW squads, but the extra FW squad is in addition to the kroot squads. The lack of armor save hurts, but in 5e's cover rich environment it is really not that important. With fieldcraft a Kroot unit can stand in a forest and rapid fire back at SM with the same gun and a 3+ cover save, alternatively they can go to ground and get a 2+ cover save. More importantly with kroot hounds they can actually win close combat against SM. You can generally also reserve the kroot and bring them in to Outflank (hopefully later) in the game. Finally if the SM player is really shooting at a 70 pt kroot squad, the rest of the Tau force will have them for breakfast... My point is just that they should not be overlooked.