sad news

[the great beaver]

so it seems that grey hunters and bloodclaws are so good all on their own that taking wolf guard with them borders on a negative. if you take a wolf guard in a squad in a rhino you cannot get the second assault weapon which is point for point a much better deal on multiple turns.

 

I've played 6 games with wolf guard and 5 games without and I have to say that saving the pts on their upgrades (which, if you don't take them you're missing out on the extra assault weapon for nothing) has always been a better option. repeatedly I've been able to squeeze in the extra pts for a razorback for my long fangs and additional scouts for my scout squad.

 

so far I've slowly cut out my 220ppt wolf lord for a basic rune priest with a bolt pistol, dropped the LRC for 2 land speeders and part of my new vindicator and now i've dropped the wolf guard for more assault weapons and long range firepower in another landspeeder and the aforementioned razorback.

 

it's sad that the fluffly stuff makes the army weaker but there it is. more bodies, less heroes and more victories for me.

 

what's your point of view on the matter

[ChaosPhoenix]

At the moment, I take a cheap power fist with 2 attacks and LD9 over a second special ranged weapon.

[Hfran Morkai]

Well I've played two real games and won one, lost one.

 

So it's too early for me to say but I like the idea of sticking a thunder hammer with my assault style packs, the ones with meltas moving up the board to engage in close quarters.

[Night Runner]

Altogether I've played six games, and I tend to agree with great Beaver. The last two games I played I only used 3 WG as leaders with my HQs leading other units, and I fared much better than the previous four. I find Wolfguard units disadvantageous in games that are smaller than 1500pts. They use up points that can be spent in extra heavy or fast support choices or in upgrading your existing units. My GH packs perform very well, especially for their cost and WG are just needed for their LD bonus and extra special weapons for the pack.

 

AS for HQs I tend to agree with the great Beaver as well. I use a basic Wolf Priest (with / without bike) and a basic Rune Priest and have fared better overall than with a very expensive WL.

 

I am going to play a 2000pt game next week against Orks. I think I'll add a Wolfguard unit in termie armour and WL to see how I go.

[Wolf Guard Hengist]

I've come to the same conclusion but one thing I havent tried is giving the squad a Wolf Guard with a powerfist and a Combi Melta/Flamer. My current set up is this

 

10 Grey Hunters

2 Meltaguns

Wolf Standard

Mark of the Wulfen

Powerfist

Rhino

 

10 grey Hunters

2 Flamers

Wolf Standard

Mark of Wulfen

Powerfist

Rhino

 

10 Grey Hunters

2 Plasmaguns

PowerWep

(This unit gets a WG in TDA with CML/CF so doesnt really count)

 

This lot comes in at 650 points. It has served me really well especially the Foot slogging pack who really do an awesome job at protecting the back field. If I remove a Grey Hunter from packs 1 and 2 and replace them with a Wolf guard with a PF and Combiwep the total comes in at 656. So for 6 points I gain an extra Powerfist attack and a one shot special weapon which kind of compensates for the loss of the extra special wep. And not forgetting the leadership is bumped up to 9.

 

Problem is I dont have 6 points spare in my list and I really do like having my two special weapons expecially the flamers.....oh the dilemma!

[Max_Dammit]

At the moment, I take a cheap power fist with 2 attacks and LD9 over a second special ranged weapon.

 

What he sayed, and giving him a comby melta or plasma will get you that extra shot, be it only once but still

[ChaosPhoenix]

Altogether I've played six games, and I tend to agree with great Beaver. The last two games I played I only used 3 WG as leaders with my HQs leading other units, and I fared much better than the previous four. I find Wolfguard units disadvantageous in games that are smaller than 1500pts. They use up points that can be spent in extra heavy or fast support choices or in upgrading your existing units. My GH packs perform very well, especially for their cost and WG are just needed for their LD bonus and extra special weapons for the pack.

 

AS for HQs I tend to agree with the great Beaver as well. I use a basic Wolf Priest (with / without bike) and a basic Rune Priest and have fared better overall than with a very expensive WL.

 

I am going to play a 2000pt game next week against Orks. I think I'll add a Wolfguard unit in termie armour and WL to see how I go.

 

Is the OP talking about Wolfguards as leaders are bad? And you agree with him and say Wolfguards as leaders are good?

[stinkenheim]

i think nightrunner meant he wasn't taking wolfguard as units, rather as packl leaders to buff other units.

 

to the OP, in my experience I never leave home without a wolf guard pack leader, either this codex or the last. they ar invaluable to me to get the most out of my units in any given situation. i play primarily city fight, and have a largely footslogging list so the capacity of rhinos isn't as important to me. I can see your complaint, but to me the increase in leadership plus flexibility of wargear that a wolfguard gives is more important than a single special weapon. too many combats have come down to leadership tests to stay in at vital points in the game and as such i would rather start with as high a leadership as possible.

 

My WL leads his terminators, WP is in with the bloodclaws and my RP generally mills around firing off bolts of lightning but not actually joining units until needed. every other unit is lead by a wolf guard (except long fangs) and to date they have not let me down.

 

but if you've found a style opf play that suits you and gets you results stick with it. good luck

[ChaosPhoenix]

For a defensive squad, I'll use 10 man, 2 plasmas and 1 wolfguard. It stays behind (hence defensive) and doesn't need a transport. For a offensive squad, I'll always take 9 + 1 WG and a Powerfist. Space Wolves live for assault and LD9 helps. A second melta won't help you after the first round of assault, 2 Attacks with a PF instead of 1 help in all phases.

[Lord Howland Greywolf]

Its that extra powerfist attack that does it form me. I face too meny Nobz/Dreads/wraithbeings and vehicles that can only really be put down by hitting it with somthing really hard. They are too invaluable to me.

[ChaosPhoenix]

It's basically twice the bang for a lower price.

[Night Runner]

Altogether I've played six games, and I tend to agree with great Beaver. The last two games I played I only used 3 WG as leaders with my HQs leading other units, and I fared much better than the previous four. I find Wolfguard units disadvantageous in games that are smaller than 1500pts. They use up points that can be spent in extra heavy or fast support choices or in upgrading your existing units. My GH packs perform very well, especially for their cost and WG are just needed for their LD bonus and extra special weapons for the pack.

 

AS for HQs I tend to agree with the great Beaver as well. I use a basic Wolf Priest (with / without bike) and a basic Rune Priest and have fared better overall than with a very expensive WL.

 

I am going to play a 2000pt game next week against Orks. I think I'll add a Wolfguard unit in termie armour and WL to see how I go.

 

Is the OP talking about Wolfguards as leaders are bad? And you agree with him and say Wolfguards as leaders are good?

 

Hi, I apologize for that. Let me clarify. What I mean is that I think too many WG in games smaller than 1500pts is not very productive, whether as units or leaders. Firstly because if (like me) you use 2 HQs you already have two leaders and secondly the troops are very good and relatively cheap. So in smaller games I just take 3 WG (minimum) to lead other units not led by the HQs. Overall I have had better results. Now before everyone starts criticizing, I'm not saying WG are bad or that its not possible to win with more WG or Wolfwing. I'm just saying that with my style of playing I prefer less WG with games of 1500pts or under.

[Niiai]

I must say I am impressed by the anvil or what his name is. He is a realy bad ass with 5 attacks in the first round of combat with a thunder hammer, and he is not an IC so they can't singel him out. I wanne try him in a DP.

[Brother Amarel]

it's sad that the fluffly stuff makes the army weaker but there it is. more bodies, less heroes and more victories for me.

Unfortunately true for most armies. I tend to strike a balance between fluffy stuff I really want and better choices gameplay-wise.

[Yeti]

It depends on what role the pack has.

 

In a rhino mounted pack that isn't accompanied by an IC, Wolf Guard can be a hindrance. You loose that second special and he costs more. Is the Ld9 worth it? That's up to you. If you tool him up with a special + combi he becomes more effective, but is he worth the points? In many cases it's an even trade, less shooting for more CC punch.

 

In footsloging packs or packs mounter in Land Raider Redeemer/Crusaders, they become more viable. You don't loose the extra special ranged weapon, get the Ld boost and the option for a second special CC weapon.

 

As for fluff vs. effectiveness ... that's always a debate. I find it fluffy to have a whole bunch of Grey Hunters on the table. It's also not an extravagance to have one HQ in the 175-225 pts range. A Wolf Lord at those points can really clean up. Going overboard with 4 HQs in normal games is just asking for trouble. I also don't think it was the intention of the designer. Having the option lets us field many HQs in larger games (2250+) though, where it's expected that more heroic caracters would show up.

[ChaosPhoenix]

Altogether I've played six games, and I tend to agree with great Beaver. The last two games I played I only used 3 WG as leaders with my HQs leading other units, and I fared much better than the previous four. I find Wolfguard units disadvantageous in games that are smaller than 1500pts. They use up points that can be spent in extra heavy or fast support choices or in upgrading your existing units. My GH packs perform very well, especially for their cost and WG are just needed for their LD bonus and extra special weapons for the pack.

 

AS for HQs I tend to agree with the great Beaver as well. I use a basic Wolf Priest (with / without bike) and a basic Rune Priest and have fared better overall than with a very expensive WL.

 

I am going to play a 2000pt game next week against Orks. I think I'll add a Wolfguard unit in termie armour and WL to see how I go.

 

Is the OP talking about Wolfguards as leaders are bad? And you agree with him and say Wolfguards as leaders are good?

 

Hi, I apologize for that. Let me clarify. What I mean is that I think too many WG in games smaller than 1500pts is not very productive, whether as units or leaders. Firstly because if (like me) you use 2 HQs you already have two leaders and secondly the troops are very good and relatively cheap. So in smaller games I just take 3 WG (minimum) to lead other units not led by the HQs. Overall I have had better results. Now before everyone starts criticizing, I'm not saying WG are bad or that its not possible to win with more WG or Wolfwing. I'm just saying that with my style of playing I prefer less WG with games of 1500pts or under.

 

No need to apologize and you're right with that :)

[the great beaver]

here's the thing about super basic wolfguard with combi melta's and power fists leading your squads.

 

3 of them is around 140pts...that's huge...thats a tank, or a full scout squad...or 2 landspeeders with multi meltas and some equipment...

 

there are just too many good options....the only reason to take the WG would be to get the lD9 and you'd want to give him zero upgrades...but then he's getting in the way of a free assault weapon unless your not in a rhino.

 

if I was foot slogging I'd do it in a minute..

[Grey Mage]

here's the thing about super basic wolfguard with combi melta's and power fists leading your squads.

 

3 of them is around 140pts...that's huge...thats a tank, or a full scout squad...or 2 landspeeders with multi meltas and some equipment...

 

there are just too many good options....the only reason to take the WG would be to get the lD9 and you'd want to give him zero upgrades...but then he's getting in the way of a free assault weapon unless your not in a rhino.

 

if I was foot slogging I'd do it in a minute..

Thats what I said all through 3rd and 4rth edition.

 

Sadly Beaver, the Wolf Gaurd really havent gotten that much more expensive, in some cases they are cheaper than ever before in fact. Our troops just got cheaper is all.

[Firedrake28]

I've come to the same conclusion but one thing I havent tried is giving the squad a Wolf Guard with a powerfist and a Combi Melta/Flamer.

 

Exactly. This is, at least to me, the best solution available. Having two special weapons is really nice without a doubt, but a competent power fist wielder is just too important to miss out on. Wolf Guard that join Grey Hunter units should always be given combi-meltas or combi-flamers. They're too cheap to not take.

[Primarch_Leman_Russ]

I have to agree with having WG as pack leaders. One INTERESTING and UNIQUE role I've found for WG with the new codex is such: I run 4 WG, 2 w/ GH, 1 w/ BC pack, and 1 with scouts. Then I had about 80pts left over for my list and had an idea..... why not have a Wolf Guard lead my Long Fangs? At first I thought great 18pts for an extra wound on the Long Fangs... then I read the WG details about 1 in 5 can have terminator Armour.... then I saw the Cyclone Missile Upgrade..... THen I salivated as my 6 Long Fangs with 5 Missile Launchers are lead by a WG packing TDA, Storm Bolter and Cyclone... oh and yes normally one squad with 7 Missile launcher shots a turn would be overkill but then we have our pack leader to split fire! Now my Long Fangs never Leave home without thier WG w/ Cylcone Missle Launcher! Combined with Counter Charge I've seen my newly beefed LonG Fang Squad take out an assualt squad all on thier own!

[Hfran Morkai]

What about Pack Leaders in Razorback packs? Because I'm starting to use only Razorbacks and you lose out on four guys regardless so I'm planning on still running my Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter Wolf Guard because it adds morepunch to the relatively weak scoring unit otherwise.

[JCarter]

I've been playing mech wolves and the WGPL with my R-back squads is absolutely essential. Most of the time, he's the difference between winning the assault and losing, especially when forced to engage dreads. If I ran into more Landraiders, I'd also add some meltabombs to him, but haven't found it necessary so far.