TiguriusX Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Both bikes and jump packs offer great mobility: -They can both move 12" and fire ranged weapons -They can both plow through difficult terrain at full speed (requires dangerous terrain test) Bike advantages: -On a bike you can use "skilled rider" to reroll dangerous terrain tests. No such option with the jump pack -Assault is not slowed by difficult terrain -Increase toughness by 1 -Turbo boost provides range + cover save Jump Pack advantages: -Dangerous terrain only applies if you start or end in the terrain. You can avoid the test completely if you choose by walking or choosing your landing site. -Deep strike an option (although not sure DS is a powerful tool when you have 12" base movement and are not built for ranged combat) -Fewer points -Can still ride in a transport (this would give a potential 12" + 12" relocation move if you jump/embark/vehicle moves) Am I missing anything in this analysis? I think bikes have the edge but if you wanted to get creative you could try a few things with the jump pack *EDIT* Updated to include Thunder Wolf Not as fast as bikes and jump packs (only 6" basic movement) and does not ignore difficult terrain -True increase to base statistics (S5 T5). This means PF and TH are S10 weapons and you only suffer instant death from S10 weapons. Allows you to take saga of the warrior instead of saga of the bear with minimal risk -Increases your base attack and provides rending if you don't purchase a special combat weapon -Fleet allows you to run every turn and still have the option to assault. This means your base movement per turn can vary from 7"-12" -Can charge 12" for assault (somewhat mitigates slower base speed) -Skilled rider applies to dangerous terrain tests -Move through cover helps mitigate the effects of difficult terrain IMO I have them ranked in this order: 1a)Bike 1b)Thunder Wolf 2)Jump pack The bike has the slight edge due to the tactical options provided from reliable mobility. Contesting an objective late game or reacting to support another flank etc. However, if you run 2 melee characters on TW and place one on each flank that might be enough to give the Thunder Wolf the edge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firedrake28 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I think out of the two the Bike is a better choice, mostly because jump packs are subject to Dangerous Terrain far too often (when beginning or ending a move in difficult terrain, as you said). The Toughness increase is also nice, as is the ability to Turbo Boost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Runner Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I use Swiftclaws a lot, so I always have one of my HQs on a bike, besides the fact that I think it's more fluffy for IC to be on bikes than have jump packs. And don't forget twin linked bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 No Wolf Lord would seriously wear something so untraditional as a jump pack *hock spit* into battle! I think the real decision is between a bike and a thunderwolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Stromclaw Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 No Wolf Lord would seriously wear something so untraditional as a jump pack *hock spit* into battle! I think the real decision is between a bike and a thunderwolf. If Russ hadn't intended for us to use jumppacks he would have blown whatever STC machine makes 'em under the Fang! Personally its more of a matter of $ than of actual use. Those dang bikes are so bloody expensive compared to their usefulness in game. Plus, jumppacks just look cool. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthen Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 For pure ability, thunderwolf all the way. The stat increases are just too good. The toughness while on a T-wolf is 5, not (4)5. Which makes a massive difference. This makes taking saga of the warrior borne possible without having to worry about your 250pt lord going splat to a powerfist. The extra attack and Str... well... for the 10 points to upgrade from a bike to Twolf - you do the math :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 i would vote bike, seems more fitting to me. on a side niote jump opacks troops can't embark in transports. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2198978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 For pure ability, thunderwolf all the way. The stat increases are just too good. The toughness while on a T-wolf is 5, not (4)5. Which makes a massive difference. This makes taking saga of the warrior borne possible without having to worry about your 250pt lord going splat to a powerfist. The extra attack and Str... well... for the 10 points to upgrade from a bike to Twolf - you do the math ;) I like the hero on TWC but the 6" basic movement is enough to make me hesitate. Sure he can fleet and then charge into assault 12" + D6" but difficult terrain will slow him down. As a bonus the "skilled rider" ability applies to TWC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkseer Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 True, but your opponent hesitates too, because there's no telling how far he can move and charge in a single turn. The guy has a potential 24" attack range! 6" movement, 6" fleet, 12" charge Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 skilled rider won't aply to TWM because you taek a difficult terain test as normal infantry. characters only have skilled rider on bikes/jetbikes because they must always take a dangerous terrain test when moving through any scenery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 skilled rider won't aply to TWM because you taek a difficult terain test as normal infantry.characters only have skilled rider on bikes/jetbikes because they must always take a dangerous terrain test when moving through any scenery. Skilled rider also applies to cavalry. While you are correct that they take normal terrain tests like infantry it may come in handy when crossing dangerous terrain. I will update the original post to add in TWC Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Well, I've got a battle leader on thunder wolf, with frost axe and storm shield (nothing else) and he is just mean! excellent for assaulting tactical squads and the like. I've also got a battle leader with wolf claws and jumppack, not so hot to be honest.... He's in with a squad of skyclaws. I think i'll trade him out for/add in a wolf priest with jump pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 my bad, didn't check the special rules, assumed it only applied to bikes and jetbikes not cavalry too. thanks for pointing that out to me ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiguriusX Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 No problem...tell me more about jump packs and transports please (page for the rule you refer to?). I may have that wrong. I thought a hero with a jump pack could ride in a transport. At the very least he could join GHs and be considered infantry to load up right? Some of the items I am looking at with jump pack/bike/TWM are how to "hide" the character in other units. My current understanding is that the jump pack provides the most options because you can join all infantry. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 p 66 BRB under transport capacity. Only infantry models may embark in transports (it is worth specifying that this does not include jump infantry), unless a Codex book states otherwise.... in fairness thats the first time i have read that page but i based my assumption on the fact that all units with the option of taking jump packs as extras (vanguard/deathcompany for instance) mention that something along the lines of unless equipped with jump opacks the unit may purchase X as a dedicated transport. theres nothing stopping him from joining a unit, he would obviously move at the speed of the slowest (so 6") and they couldn't be transported, the same goes if heis on a thunderwolf... i would personally go for the bike and attatch him to a bike squad. use the turbo boost to help protect them (3+ cover save is nice) plus he gains the T bonus making him more resiliant, and twin linked boltguns for more firepower. but hey its your model, do what feels right to you ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 No problem...tell me more about jump packs and transports please (page for the rule you refer to?). I may have that wrong. I thought a hero with a jump pack could ride in a transport. At the very least he could join GHs and be considered infantry to load up right? Some of the items I am looking at with jump pack/bike/TWM are how to "hide" the character in other units. My current understanding is that the jump pack provides the most options because you can join all infantry. Only infantry can ride in/on transports; models with jump packs are Jump Infantry; Jump Infantry are not Infantry, they are a distinct unit type with their own rules, just like Cavalry, Beasts, etc. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosedragon Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm sure this has been covered many times on many threads, but how does a character on a thunderwolf get T5 rather than t4(5)? I know the TW cavalry do, but looking at the codex and the BRB I don't think characters would - did I miss an FAQ or something? Not trying to hijack a thread, but that's a material difference. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm sure this has been covered many times on many threads, but how does a character on a thunderwolf get T5 rather than t4(5)? I know the TW cavalry do, but looking at the codex and the BRB I don't think characters would - did I miss an FAQ or something? Not trying to hijack a thread, but that's a material difference. This has been debated a ton; for best information go to the FAQ up in the sticky section and find the explanations for both sides- there are links in the FAQ to the original threads too. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2199959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Plus for the Jump Pack- Cheaper in real cash. So is the retinue you might want to give him of bloodclaws or wolf gaurd. Bikers are more expensive, while Thunderwolves depend entirely on how you convert them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/185955-jump-pack-or-bike-for-our-wolf-lords-and-battle-leaders/#findComment-2200007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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