Skitarii

[Blackrose]

Hello all

 

I'm creating my AdMech army at the moment, which eventually will of course include Titan support. My question is regarding Skitarii. In peoples opinions, how do these relate to the Legios?

I see two real possibilities:

 

1) The Skitarii are all part of the AdMech as a whole, rather than the Legios, and are attached to the Legions as required by the parent Forge World.

2) The Legions have Skitarii as part of their own organisation, as well as the Mechanicus having their own. They act as auxillary and support troops for the Titans.

 

What brought this about was that I was thinking of the colour scheme for my army, and pretty much drew a blank as to whether to do them in AdMech colous, or in the colours of their parent Legion.

 

So, what do you all think?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Hello all

 

I'm creating my AdMech army at the moment, which eventually will of course include Titan support. My question is regarding Skitarii. In peoples opinions, how do these relate to the Legios?

I see two real possibilities:

 

1) The Skitarii are all part of the AdMech as a whole, rather than the Legios, and are attached to the Legions as required by the parent Forge World.

2) The Legions have Skitarii as part of their own organisation, as well as the Mechanicus having their own. They act as auxillary and support troops for the Titans.

 

What brought this about was that I was thinking of the colour scheme for my army, and pretty much drew a blank as to whether to do them in AdMech colous, or in the colours of their parent Legion.

 

So, what do you all think?

a legio has it's own 'conventional' ground forces, they have infantry in the form of skitarii, and cataphractii which would be the armoured element of the ground forces, so you could create a legion of titans, and play the skitarii/cataphractii element in regular games, and then add in the titans for apoc. games.

 

skitarii as far as i can tell, are the mechanius' regular troops though, a forge will have them, and a titan legion will have them, but by no means are they one or the other.

[Blackrose]

Thats pretty much what I was leaning towards.....it just makes sense for Legions to have their own ground forces in support of the Titans, otherwise they'd have to rely almost totally on the support of other organisations, which seems fairly out of character for the (mostly) extremely independent Legions.

[Brother Pariah]

I tend to prefer to oldest Titan fluff. According to Codex Titanicus (1989), p. 30:

The Order's [Legion's] badge is also used as the insignia on all of its associated vehicles and troops. The troops are known as Scutarii (sic), and are levied from the Order's Forge World.

 

I've always considered the Titan Order of a Forge World to be its ground military, and responsible not only for Titans, but skitarii, armour, etc. More recent fluff has the skitarii in a separate organizational branch, I believe, but that background material is scattered over a series of bad novels, which I don't really feel any motivation to plow though.

[Severus6]

Based on the information given from both the older and current background you have several distinct groups of Skitarii. Those who act as the PDF/Ground Forces of the Forge World proper, Ground Support Troops for the Titan Legions, and Expeditionary Forces that are sent off world in support of the AM and at times the IG. Now, granted, the arguement can be made that a Forge World supplies Skitarii troops for each of these areas from the same "pool" of troopers. No arguement there, however it does seem that each of those groups have seperate and specific commanders and duties are supplied and trained accordingly.

 

Severus6

[minigun762]

Based on the information given from both the older and current background you have several distinct groups of Skitarii. Those who act as the PDF/Ground Forces of the Forge World proper, Ground Support Troops for the Titan Legions, and Expeditionary Forces that are sent off world in support of the AM and at times the IG. Now, granted, the arguement can be made that a Forge World supplies Skitarii troops for each of these areas from the same "pool" of troopers. No arguement there, however it does seem that each of those groups have seperate and specific commanders and duties are supplied and trained accordingly.

 

Severus6

 

 

It could be that Skitarii is too generic of a term, much like Guardsmen covers a wide variety of different potential units, roles and specialities.

[jeffersonian000]

Skitarii is the AdMech term for their Tech Guard, which is their version of the Imperial Guard and serves the same functions. Titan Legions can be seen as analogs to the original Space Marine Legions, without ever having been dispersed into Chapters.

 

SJ

[minigun762]

Well reading the first part of Titanicus, its clear that, atleast in this example, Skitarii are imbedded in the respective Legion and take on the appropriate color schemes/themes.

[Blackrose]

Well reading the first part of Titanicus, its clear that, atleast in this example, Skitarii are imbedded in the respective Legion and take on the appropriate color schemes/themes.

 

 

Aye, Titanicus was raised the question for me in the first place. From the book, it definitely seems that Legions (or Invicta at least, but it seems likely it'd be the same throughout) have permanent ground troops.

 

Right, thats settled...now I need to decide what legion to do so I can start my Skitarii :lol:

[minigun762]

I find it odd that we have at least 3 very different representations of the Skitarii.

 

In Dark Apostle, they are described as vat grown, processed IG equivalents with some light modifications. For the most part, I got the sense of brainwashed, controlled Guardsmen fighting.

 

In Dark Adeptus, they seem much more "human", equivalent to vet Guardsmen again with some fairly minor bionics, most of which are efforts to limit their fear.

 

Now in Titanicus, they are something entirely different. They are extravagent, beautiful and terrible soliders designed/built/bred to intimidate and inspire fear in the opponent. Their description reminds me more of Eldar Aspect Warriors in action, and where it might be just the author's view, they are described as being superior in close combat to Space Marines.

 

If you bring this to the table top, the first two examples would yield something with the stat lines of a Guardsmen, probably with BS4 (due to targeters and built in weapons links) and maybe the equivalent of Carapace armor or a minor Inv save thanks to bionics.

The 3rd example would give you something with the stat lines more like Marine or Tyranid Warrior, incredibly strong, fast with accurate shooting.

 

Anyway, I was just thinking about this last night so I wanted to toss it out there. Personally, I like my Skitarii to be the "bionic IG" instead, alteast the rank and file trooper.

[Blackrose]

In Titanicus, I get the impression that's specifically the Invicta Skitarii that are like that....if I recall, one of the Tempestus people remarks on how different they are from their ow, which are more normal.

 

I've gone the advanced, bionic ehnaced troops route myself, in robes. I was considering the Invicta type ones, but couldn't find a good way to make it translate into models.

For the "standard" Skitarii, i'm using IG veterans (Carapace armour and BS4), which fits quite well I think. My Praetorians are going to be used as Ogryns, and the heavy weapon servitors as Sentinels.

[minigun762]

In Titanicus, I get the impression that's specifically the Invicta Skitarii that are like that....if I recall, one of the Tempestus people remarks on how different they are from their ow, which are more normal.

 

I've gone the advanced, bionic ehnaced troops route myself, in robes. I was considering the Invicta type ones, but couldn't find a good way to make it translate into models.

For the "standard" Skitarii, i'm using IG veterans (Carapace armour and BS4), which fits quite well I think. My Praetorians are going to be used as Ogryns, and the heavy weapon servitors as Sentinels.

 

Good point about Invicta, but I thought that even Tempestus were described as big/burly/impressive and more then just a Guardsmen with an implant or two.

 

I think thats a very appropriate "count as" for the rank and file Skitarii. With the Praetorians, I thought they were the tracked heavy weapon squads, are they something different? I'm remembering a random short story about an AM outpost being attacked by the Necron and talk about tracked Praetorians with Heavy Bolters, Missiles and Plasma responding.

[jeffersonian000]

I've been playing around with Skitarii concepts for the table-top, and have decided for my own Titan Legion (Legio Crux Fidalis) that I would be using Grey Knights as Augustus Praetorians (equivalent to the Invitus Skitarii in Titanicus) and Sisters of Battle as Victrix Skitarii (equivalent to a better equipped Tech Guard or "Hearth Guard"). As I functionally want both a near-super heavy and much lighter fleet class "crawls", GK Land Raiders and Sister Immolator/Rhino/Exorcists fit in with this plan. The only obstacle I've found are representing Knight-class Titans in a tournament legal format to fill the Cataphracti portion of my Legion, which I'm either going with "counts as" Leman Russ's or "counts as" something else with a better fit.

 

SJ

[Blackrose]

In Titanicus, I get the impression that's specifically the Invicta Skitarii that are like that....if I recall, one of the Tempestus people remarks on how different they are from their ow, which are more normal.

 

I've gone the advanced, bionic ehnaced troops route myself, in robes. I was considering the Invicta type ones, but couldn't find a good way to make it translate into models.

For the "standard" Skitarii, i'm using IG veterans (Carapace armour and BS4), which fits quite well I think. My Praetorians are going to be used as Ogryns, and the heavy weapon servitors as Sentinels.

 

Good point about Invicta, but I thought that even Tempestus were described as big/burly/impressive and more then just a Guardsmen with an implant or two.

 

I think thats a very appropriate "count as" for the rank and file Skitarii. With the Praetorians, I thought they were the tracked heavy weapon squads, are they something different? I'm remembering a random short story about an AM outpost being attacked by the Necron and talk about tracked Praetorians with Heavy Bolters, Missiles and Plasma responding.

 

The Praetorians are described in various books as being tracked or walking, with rapid fire cannons and very tough to damage, which fits Ogryns somewhat (little armour, but hard to kill makes up for it). They are also in other places dexcribed as being the heavy weapon tracked units like you say, but these are ALSO described as Sagitarii....

 

It really does seem to come down to where they're from/who's army they are part of. They seem to be very generic terms. To quote Lexicanum, which is usually pretty close, :

 

Hypaspists: These are the basic tech-guard infantry, and are armed with lasguns. They are more augmented than the normal Imperial Guardsman, and may have received emotional-suppression surgery.

Sagitarii: These are the heavy weapon operatives. These only include dedicated heavy weapons squads, as heavy weapons attached to Hypaspist squads are still called Hypastpists.

Balisteria: These are the artillery units. The range of artillery goes from Thudd guns to the massive Ordinatus pieces. This includes both the vehicle/machine, as well as the crews manning them.

Cataphractii: These are the armour units. The range of armour goes from small transports to heavy walkers and superheavy tanks such as Baneblades.

Praetorians: These are the elite of the Skitarii. They are super-enhanced (bionically/cybernetically/chemically/genetically etc) humans who are augmented with a huge array of cybernetics and heavy weapons. They are, essentially, a sort of counterpart to Obliterators.

Many old sources also suggest that Praetorians are instead an elite Skitarii type following the fashion of Imperial Guard storm trooper units, but with slightly more augmentations, putting them somewhere between storm troopers and Space Marines.

In the short story Deux es Mechanicus Praetorians are in fact servitors, rather than living humans. They move on tank treads and are armed with powerful weaponry, such as plasma cannons*3.

 

 

 

So it's a case of "best fit" really. I might still go the tracked route for the Sentinel "counts as" units instead, as they have more heavy weapon options, and use the Ogryn rules for something else....

[Blackrose]

I've been playing around with Skitarii concepts for the table-top, and have decided for my own Titan Legion (Legio Crux Fidalis) that I would be using Grey Knights as Augustus Praetorians (equivalent to the Invitus Skitarii in Titanicus) and Sisters of Battle as Victrix Skitarii (equivalent to a better equipped Tech Guard or "Hearth Guard"). As I functionally want both a near-super heavy and much lighter fleet class "crawls", GK Land Raiders and Sister Immolator/Rhino/Exorcists fit in with this plan. The only obstacle I've found are representing Knight-class Titans in a tournament legal format to fill the Cataphracti portion of my Legion, which I'm either going with "counts as" Leman Russ's or "counts as" something else with a better fit.

 

SJ

 

 

I'm still up in the air about whether to use Knights or not.....they are awesome, but aren't part of Titan Legions themselves, which means all different colour schemes etc, and might not look coherent on the table. If I DO get them, i'll be using them as russes.

[Severus6]

I like the idea of Knights as counts as Leman Russ tanks,...its fairly close stat wise. The weapons mis-match and the lack of a Void Shield annoy me but such is life.

 

Severus6

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

on the topic of what skitarii look like exactly, what i think they mean about the invicta skitarii looking different, is that they're just more ornate and stylized. i mean, the forge skitarii just stay at the forge for the most part (unless the forge comes under attack) and invicta's skitarii are meant to be intimidating in many ways, they're supposed to cause fear, and an over all sense of awe.

 

and when abnett said the thing about their combat being more ferocious, i think it was coming from a biased mechanicus point of view.

[Blackrose]

on the topic of what skitarii look like exactly, what i think they mean about the invicta skitarii looking different, is that they're just more ornate and stylized. i mean, the forge skitarii just stay at the forge for the most part (unless the forge comes under attack) and invicta's skitarii are meant to be intimidating in many ways, they're supposed to cause fear, and an over all sense of awe.

 

and when abnett said the thing about their combat being more ferocious, i think it was coming from a biased mechanicus point of view.

 

 

That's a good point I hadn't considered to be honest. What the Mechanicus think of as savage and ferocious probably pales in comparison to Marines, or even certain Guard regiments (Ctachans, Attilans, Feral Worlders etc).

[jeffersonian000]

I like the idea of Knights as counts as Leman Russ tanks,...its fairly close stat wise. The weapons mis-match and the lack of a Void Shield annoy me but such is life.

 

Severus6

 

 

Well, I've found that the front AV of 14 is a good representation of an "actual" front AV12 with a front facing "Knight Shield" at AV14 that gets knocked down by Lance type weapons yet shrugs off almost everything else. Tank-Shocking is almost like Titan-Shocking, and dozer blades/rough terrain kits can be shin guards or wide feet. All in all, it seems like the closest we can get without just using a Defiler.

 

SJ