best way for AV14 killing

[antique_nova]

So you may be thinking why have i posted a thread that in a way is similar to the math hammer thread? Well the rason is because it's a math hammer thread.

 

On topic:

So what's the best way for AV14 killing? you have 160 points to do it. ( hehe i like a challenge and i put 160 points for a reason ).

 

I have recently read, well just now, Skirax's ironpriest thread and thought that's actually a good idea.

 

If you want a clear version of the options, skip half a dozen paragraphs down.

 

An iron priest on a bike, with cyberwolves

I think the cost is around 110 points for them.

 

Your other option is a wgbl with a jump pack, a thunder hammer and fenrisian wolves.

 

scouts with what ever gear that you want them to have, plasma pistol, melta guns and a WG with combi-melta and melta bombs.

 

Or use an existing rune priest in your army and give him melta bombs, a combi-melta and a jump pack and stick him with a squad of fenrisian wolves, plus saga of the wulfen and a cyberwolf.

 

which is about 110-120 points with including the naked rune priest, his equipment was added in the points cost above this line.

 

Soooo to recap, incase you don't want to read the text:

 

Option 1

1x Iron priest

1x Bike

1x Melta bombs

4x Cyberwolf

 

Option 2

1x Wolf Guard Battle Leader

1x Jump Pack

1x Thunder Hammer

1x Melta bomb ( Optional )

1x Combi-melta ( Optional )

Plus how many fenrisan wolves that you can fit in with a cyber wolf and saga of the wolfen.

 

Option 3

Scouts

plasma pistols

melta guns

Mark of the Wulfen ( MotW )

+

Wolf Guard

1x combi-melta

1x melta bombs

1x MotW

 

Option 4

1x Rune priest ( that is already in your army )

1x Jump Pack

1x Melta bomb ( Optional )

1x Combi-melta ( Optional )

Plus how many fenrisan wolves that you can fit in with a cyber wolf and saga of the wolfen.

 

Reasons for missing out lascannons, well they have jsut about as much chance of hurting an AV14 tank as missile launcher, but they can penetrate.....just.

 

Reason for missing out podding, you seriously want to give your opponent rapid fire range to your guys? terminators won't survive long, a squad of whatever you want won't and a dreadnought with whatever bling bling on it won't save it either for one turn. This includes venerable dreads and Bjorg.

 

any more options appreciated, but i had missed this Iron priest option until now, but it isn't that great.

I also think that the Space wolves can now finally boast of the one problem that has plagued all SM codexs until this one came along.

 

The ability to have a jump pack crazy marine with cheap mobility, can dish out a fair amount of hurt and protection, that lasts and can be reliable. ^^

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Spacefrisian]

I only need 105 points. Dreadnought with Multimelta.

[antique_nova]

and you expect that to kill all AV14? you need to walk atleast 3 turns before even getting within half range with that thing. 2 or one if it's a land raider and even then that's 2-3 turns that they have got to kill an AV14 vehicle with a rhino or chimera moving up with thunder hammers and melta guns.

Sorry if i am being aggressive and dismissive of your suggestion, but i don't feel that that is good enough for competitiveness.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Spacefrisian]

There should be more scarier targets on the field to focus on than that Dreadnought. But yes he still needs to walk all that way (provided the opponent doesnt move forward)

[Tograth]

how about this:

2x Land speeders with 2x multimeltas each

 

bang on 160 points.

[Gen. Confusion]

Two landspeeders with double multimeltas. Comes in at 160 pts. Cheap and powerful. Any tank will fear these.

 

*edit for points correction*

[antique_nova]

not bad at all, but they could get shot down easily and trying to get them towards the enemy backline may prove a problem. they are also very vulnerable to flankers and deep strikers. We shall see.

thanks

antique_nova

[Vlk]

and how about swiftclaws? I'm getting more and more fond of those guys.

 

4 Swiftclaws with Meltabombs and a Meltagun = 140 pts., turbo boost cover save, good toughness, 4 wounds... and you can always add an Attack Bike for extra wounds, possibly with a Multi-Melta.

 

The best thing is that they are not an absolutely dedicated AT unit and can fight enemy squads.

[antique_nova]

yes, but they are easy killed. T5 isn't that much when it's one wound and +3 save. no amount of turbo boosting will stop rapid fire from killing them. From experience with using black templars ones. not a good result and they are even more vulnerable to deep striking and plasma when not turbo boosting.

At the moment.

Options, 3 and 4, plus the land speeders work best in my mind at the moment, keep it going!

 

EDIT: actually since the wolves can assualt 24 inches ( move, fleet etc ) well they can but there charge range is 19 minimum with no difficult terrain, i like option four the most! They are as effective as marines in combat (well not saves, but i will pitch them against horde units or weak ones at the back of my enemy line) and i can split them off from the RP and have him join a GH sqaud that popped out from it's rhino! :).

But, generaly people tend to shoot land speeders instead of rhinos and my GH squads are not that effective against AV14, so option 4 is the clearer winner so far.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[SamaNagol]

The best solution is 2 FA slot double MM Speeders

 

Second you have Wolf Guard with as many Combi Meltas as you should so wish along with 2 Chain Fists in a Drop Pod

 

The next best solution is a MM Dreadnought in a Drop Pod

 

Then you have 10 Grey Hunters with 2 x Meltaguns in a Drop Pod

 

And in 5th place you have 5 Grey Hunters with 1 Melta Gun and a Wolf Guard Packleader with Fist and Combi Melta in a Lascannon Razorback

 

Melta Bombs are UTTERLY unreliable for taking out AV14 vehicles because you get 1 attack and will at best hit on 4s. No one leaves tanks stationary. And we have said previously, fancy tooled up HQ is not the way to deal with things in the SW codex.

[Vlk]

Option 4 costs about 145 pts while you can have 3 bikers with meltabombs, a meltagun and an attack bike with a multi-melta and meltabombs for 145 pts. Bikes are faster, have more wounds, they are deadlier in close combat, equally vulnerable to plasma weapons and deepstrikers and 10 rapid-firing MEQs would kill 1.43 biker on average which still leaves an AT unit that is much more potent than a single RP with meltabombs and a combi-melta.

 

Plus I think that those bikers can avoid rapid fire quite effectively since their charge range is... how much? 18 inches?

 

 

Give those guys a chance .)

[Gen. Confusion]

I really like swift claws as well. But I like using big units like 7 to 10 with meltgun and multimelta attack bike. I usually lead them with a wolf priest on bike or a wolf guard on bike with powerfist and combimelta. Sometimes both.

[antique_nova]

yes but there is one tactic to stop them all, expendible units infront of the tank tanks. assualting the damn AV14 tanks straight one is very predicatable and smart opponents will have units to coutner such a thing. bikers aren't that good.

SamaNagol: you don't read my threads properly do you? lol, i said no lascannons, no podding and i gave you a 160 points limit. *shakes head. lol

Hmm i shoulda mentioned, that land raider killing i am sorted out with 3 charging MM WG in grey hunters. i am looking more at leman russes to be honest.

 

Off-topic, plus i need a reliable way of killing eldar tanks, that makes land speeders less likely to do much as they will be out manouvred and out gunned before i can get off a shot, but scouts are still in my mind, plus LS MM's and the option 4.

thanks

antique_nova

[pmodonnell]

Here is a variation of Option 1: Swap out the Bike for a Thunderwolf Mount. This gives him fleet as cavalry so he has up to a 24 inch charge range and STR 10 with a Thunder-Hammer (arguably). One question though, can he take melta-bombs? Minus the melta-bombs the unit (Iron Priest, Thunderwolf Mount, 4 Cyber Wolves) comes in at 155 pts. If he can take melta-bombs, then he should come right in at 160.

 

BK

[antique_nova]

it is S10, because the TW mount give him +1 Strenght and it becoems solid in his stats. So no worries, it's just with things like furious charge, you use the weapons special ability before adding on any affects like furious charge etc.

thanks

antique_nova

[SamaNagol]

Leman Russes don't have armour 14 then, they have armour 10. Get next to them, asap. That's how you get rid of them.

[antique_nova]

Leman Russes don't have armour 14 then, they have armour 10. Get next to them, asap. That's how you get rid of them.

Front armour 14 and some russes, demolishers and exercutioners have rear armour 11.

 

Now that we are focusing on russes, please now keep it on focusing on russes, ( keep in mind monoliths as well )

 

The options are:

Option Four ( Still going with them, but melta bombs, or one bomb is still a risky choice to hit )

Land speeders with MM ( now gone, optioni not the most favourable, due to lack of armour on them )

Scouts ( Hmm, still not backing on them yet )

Option 1 with TW mount ( Liking this, need to think it over )

 

thanks

antique_nova

[Gentlemanloser]

Or use an existing rune priest in your army

 

Use the existing Logan in your army (:cuss) and attach him to a Long Fang Squad with as many Lascannons as you can afford with 160 points.

 

Or add Logan to a TWC Unit with a S10 TH.

 

Or use an existing LR and add some WG Terminators with Chain Fists. ;)

 

Edit: Why add wolves with the WGBL with the Jump Pack? It stops him moving 12", as the Wolves can only move 6.

[antique_nova]

Or use an existing rune priest in your army

 

Use the existing Logan in your army (:cuss) and attach him to a Long Fang Squad with as many Lascannons as you can afford with 160 points.

 

Or add Logan to a TWC Unit with a S10 TH.

 

Or use an existing LR and add some WG Terminators with Chain Fists. ;)

 

I don't have logan, and all your other options are wayyy to expensive. lacannons aren't reliable.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ally in a vindicare Assasin and a base 20 point Inquisitor. Don't roll a 1 on your Turbo Penetrator.

 

Really, it depends what's in the rest of your army though. Unless you don't want to include 'existing' units. :cuss

 

Ally in a Forgewolrd IST Squad with a Valk and 2 x MG on those IST.

 

And 5 S10 Lascannons aren't reliable? Then your only options are Chain Fists or Melta Bombs. Pod/LR the Termies, or Transport WG in a Rhino/BEL Scouts for the Melta Bombs. Or Add Melta Bombs to TWC.

[Ullr Direfang]

i feel that this is the type of the thread that is just going to run around in circles. there are too many possibilities and one can always find/see a way to counter things.

 

i personally prefer lascannons. that or wolf scouts. and i do like chainfists.

[JamesI]

I like the wolf scouts as the best option.

[Kenmichi]

Option 3.

 

The double MM Land Speeder option might be better, however. Simple because they can move further and are less susceptible to being assaulted and have a slight edge in survivability.

[JamesI]

For the scouts, rather than those plasma pistols (useless for AV 14) perhaps a thunder hammer for the wolf guard?

[earthen]

Scouts are a terrible option. Any av 14 you see is going to be moving forward in your face. Scouts in reserve will arrive too late, behind enemy lines is useless when the LR is driving towards you.

 

Speeders are NOT vulnerable to outflankers, they should have their job done by turn 2.

 

You can also deepstrike your speeders near an opponent, ensuring you get an opening shot.

 

 

 

 

Bottom line, Melta is the only reliable way to toast AV14. Youre not going to kill it with melta bombs, a single combi melta or a str 10 PF, because by the time your ironpriest, rune priest, W.E. Gets to it, the landraider will have done its job, you will get assaulted, and you will give your opponent a D6 move toward your lines.

 

 

Therefore, we obviously need things that can get close to the land raider TURN ONE and arent affected to hit by vehicle movement modifiers. This leaves us with combi meltas, melta guns, and multimeltas being in and melta bombs, single combi meltas, jump packs, chainfists, powerfists, thunderhamers, being out.

 

Wolfguard in drop pod

Dreadnought in drop pod

Speeders

Grey Hunters in drop pod

 

these are your only competitive options to get melta landing on a land raider rush before you bite a charge.

 

I find it pretty strange that you dismiss a podding dreadnought as non-competitive, yet are actually considering a rune priest with a jump pack, a single shot combi melta and melta bombs for your 160 points of AT.

 

Notice 3 of your 4 options rely heavily on melee. One relies on outflanking (too late to do anything) or sitting infront of your opponents charge (how long do you think a handful of scouts is gonna last? youre going to bite a charge and give your opponent D6 movement before you even get within range to meltagun something)

 

 

 

Keep in mind, if you want to play competitively, most land raiders come in pairs. If you cant stop one before you get hit, you're done.

 

And yes, you will be using sacrificial units to get the job done. For example, if you bring 2 dreadnoughts in drop pods, drop them on turn one to crack open the heart and soul of his army... it wont matter how many kill points you just gave up.

He'll have a group of termies foot slogging, one group hitting you, both totally out of sync and you can mop up from there.