best way for AV14 killing

[Sulfurious]

Have you ever used deep strike rules? Any unit that arrives from deepstrike can shoot or run ( if they can run ), but may not assualt, if they can, unless a special rule permits them to like the vanguard assualt marines from the vanilla codex.

thanks

antique_nova

 

Sorry, I've used it many time just not with a fast skimmer. I wasn't sure until I looked in the rulebook that vehicles arriving from deep strike count as having moved at cruising speed.

[antique_nova]

ow crap. I missed that. *face palm. lol. I was only thinking that it applied to drop pods and forgot it happened to other vehicles as well.

thanks

antique_nova

[Sven Bloodskull]

ow crap. I missed that. *face palm. lol. I was only thinking that it applied to drop pods and forgot it happened to other vehicles as well.

 

In a sense it does only apply to drop pods, seeing as that every other vehicle that can deep strike is a skimmer.

 

But can you guarantee that your land speeder will survive or even has a good chance of survivable, because isn't always sufficient cover or enough cover to hide a land speeder. And yes a pod squad is more expensive, but it is more useful to your army if it is a scoring unit and has support in a pod army. DOW is much worse for land speeders than a drop pod. Because land speeders have a bigger distance to travel and that means they have more of a chance of getting shot down. Pod squads can atleast get cover from behind their pod ( and fire at the target without having to worry about not shooting or getting annihilated as quuickly as a speeder ) and get good positions to force the tanks into your devestators or other squads line of fire.

 

Like i said, if you cant be sure if you can reach the other side, deep strike the buggers. And unless i'm using an all DP army, i'm not that big a fan of DPing troop choices. Yes, they will not die as quickly as LS, but die they will, and than you have just lost a valuable troop choice (unless your opponent is an idiot and puts one big tank on one side of the table, and the rest of his army on the other side, in which case that tank deserves to get blown up) instead of a rather inexpensive fast attack choice. If the bugger survives, either keep tank hunting, or try and contest objectives with it. Not to mention the fact that the DP has to come down on turn 1, so in DoW your dp can do nothing 50% of the time, and nothing at all if your opponent elects to keep his army in reserve (which is a bit drastic, but works).

 

The reason why i would go for LS is because they are cheap, effective and you simply don't care if they perish, because thats what they do. They will get crushed anyway, so you might as well make them take out something big in the proces.

 

Marshal Hellmund

[antique_nova]

I don't like throwing away kill points. The land speeder won't be able to play 50% of a game if you use it like that anyway ( or any way infact ). The drop pod can fill in the same role as the land speeder if it survives, if it pods in the right area and can able as LOS blockage against the enemies static units. But that's easier with multiple drop pods. I drop 3 pods, so i don't have to worry about the guys that come out from dying too easily. Even if you pod down first turn in DOW, it's not a disadvantage, it just allows you to set up in the enemies face and prepare your own defensive lines in their area.

thanks

antique_nova

[DerekLee688]

A land speeder can fire one weapon at crusing speed because it is a skimmer. That said, I don't really care for deepstriking without a pod or beacon.

 

Every AT option will be killed by something. There isn't a multi wound AV 14 deepstriking skimmer option that has melta, so you need to decide what you and your army can handle. If you have lots of rhinos then you could easily hide Skyclaws or attack bikes behind them. Does your venue regulary run blocking terrain? Land speeders don't need armor above 10 because they can hide by moving up to 24" or shoot after 12" and quite possibly hit the non-AV14 side unless he rotates to follow a speeder comming around his flank while exposing all of his other sides to the rest of your army. The only problem I see with land speeders is if your opponent puts the AV 14 unit in the dead center of his army. Then I'd say you'd have to plow into his lines and have your units you had hidden jump out when an opening was made.

 

The only thing more survivable than a fast moving Landspeeder without LOS is a LandRider with extra armor and a MM. It will always be able to move unless imobilized, and can move up to 12" and fire the MM with machine spirit. Plus whatever you have transported can assault out of it. That's 25pts. of upgrades if you already have one in your list.

[Sulfurious]

I'm hesitant to take a LS just because there feels like to much margin for error. My deep strikes have a tendency to scatter pretty far and I'm sure if I got the shot off, I'd roll a 1 or 2.

[DerekLee688]

I spent three turns the other day moving a 70pt speeder to nuke a 105pt las pred. You got to have patience. Every AT option has its down side or counter. SM have to get within 12" to deliver our best AT. That means you're going to have a problem no matter what.

 

A vindicator with its flanks well defended can knock out AV 14 from 30" out. Agian it's what you're comfortable doing in your army. I put a land raider to block one side of my vindi and a dread to potect the other. A infantry or thunder wolf list won't help protect a vindi much.

 

You don't have many options because the lack of homeing beacons.

[antique_nova]

Are you sure that you were playing against an experienced opponent? Because if your allowed to be able to manovuer a land speeder for three turns without it getting shot down. Well that just spells an easy game for you - to me anyway.

Homing beacons are a downer, but i know my 12 inches*, roughly anyway, so i can never scatter off the table.

 

*That metaphor sounds so wrong ><.

 

It sounds as if your blocking assualt paths to your vindicator.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[DerekLee688]

It didn't take 3 turns because it was easy. He was giving his front armor to my landraider's lascannons.

 

I make a line with my vindi front and center. I have Rhinos second rank, and Typhoons in the back.

 

As to experience, all I can say is that we're all noobs in the eyes of the Emperor.

[Sven Bloodskull]

Ah, well, LS are not for everyone, especially not for people who are afraid of letting them DS or giving away kill points. I'm not saying i always DS them, i am saying that not even considering it is not making use of the full potential of the LS.

 

@:antique_nova: More likely that you are not able to shoot with a LS 16% when not DSing, and 33% when Dsing. Although the way to make sure that some LS come down turn 2 is by taking at least 2 (i use 3 of the, and i've never had a turn 2 where not one came down)

 

@:DerekLee688: How are your LS modelled? because even with the smallest stick on the skimmer base, they stick out above LR.

 

Marshal Hellmund

[DerekLee688]

I didn't mean to imply they were hidden behind the landraider, just the farthest distance I could put them from the enemy. They're as standard as you can get.

[Sven Bloodskull]

I didn't mean to imply they were hidden behind the landraider, just the farthest distance I could put them from the enemy. They're as standard as you can get.

 

My bad. But i am wondering how you can place your Land Speeders out of LoS. The true line of sight kinda made that impossible, unless there is a big wall or building. At least in the games that i played with LS i could only hide one.

 

Marshal Hellmund