Wolf Guard Army (With Logan)

[Joasht]

I did a quick searchy and there was no result that fitted my keyword....or possibly I didn't see it. Either way, if a thread similar to this has come up before please forgive me :P

 

Anyway, I'm thinking of making an army with Wolf Guard as the troops, as I figured for a mere X points extra I'm getting more "punch" in close combat; and not to mention more options. I was thinking something along the line of running simple squads for the most part, for example:

 

10 WG (PA), with two Power Fists, probably in a Rhino- I think the danger is that some people get carried away kitting out their WG to become super killy, but if I'm going to run an entire army of them, best I keep them simple. Two powerfists merely serve to significantly increase their effectiveness against high-Toughness targets.

 

5-7 WG (TDA), one twin LC and one Powerfist/Thunder Hammer (possibly in a Land Raider of sorts) - For XXX points, the basic power weapon Terminator WG is pretty much a steal IMO, as it has considerable stopping power and survivability for something of its price.

 

For anti-armor firepower I guess I could still do with Long Fangs and maybe some Plasma or Melta squads, possibly through drop pods.

 

Any ideas/opinions/experience regarding a WG army would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[Decoy]

This is something I've mulled over many, many times. So many possibilities lie within an all-WG army that the mind simply boggles.

 

Truth told, I think that unless you keep the army simple (as you stated), it's horridly cost-ineffectual. From a first-glance (and a drunken viewpoint), your list looks like it will work. Personally, I'd throw a kit of either Lightning Claws or a Frost Blade into the 10-man Wolf Guard squads, simply because that Initiative-power weapon is, unless you're going against high-I opponents routinely, going to make it's money back and then some.

 

Long Fangs, if you ask me, are still (and always have been) a staple of anti-armor in Wolf armies. However, the Melta-Squad fans will undoubtedly come out in droves, rightfully so, in stating that a drop podded or Rhino Rushed dual-Melta hunter squad will pop tanks just as well. There is merit to that, and it may serve you well to invest in the (admittedly VERY expensive) combi-melta option. After all, if you're close enough to Melta a tank, chances are, you'll be in combat the next turn, meaning you'll only have one shot anyways.

 

Podding Long Fangs, on the other hand, seem rather useless to me. Yes, they're out of danger for the first round or two, but then, when they come in on maybe Turn 3, that's three rounds of shooting that -isn't- going towards enemy armor. Having those vital anti-tank elements on the board on Turn 1, especially against highly mobile armies like Tau or Eldar, may very well prove invaluable. Five lascannons, no matter how you cut it, is likely to drop a tank or two a turn. When you extrapolate that to the time spent off the board, even if you take two casualties a turn, the Fangs would make their points back and then some, were they to start on the board. Furthermore, time spent firing at the Long Fangs is time NOT spent firing at your Rhinos or your other troops. Failing ALL else, if the Long Fangs miss EVERY shot, they're quite an attractive fire magnet to make sure the rest of your army gets through.

 

If anything, I'd have to say that your list carries a sort of blandness to it (I don't mean that to be offensive.) 10 Wolf Guard, 2 PF, Rhino. ... Will all the squads be the same? Will anything differentiate them? Do any of them have any added capacity against any particular enemy elements? While I concur that attempting to specialize squads may result in a loss of point efficiency, it really seems sort of Cookie Cutter. Very Non-Wolfy.

 

 

There are plenty of other thoughts that I have regarding a Wolf Guard army, but it's VERY variable. Were I to give all my thoughts to you, the post would take up easily twenty pages worth of material, and I won't make readers suffer any more than they already have. A Wolf Guard army is a great thing, if you ask me, but there are plenty of dangers and risks associated with running it. What it boils down to is playtesting, and figuring out what you'll have fun with.

 

Good luck, and I hope I've helped in some way.

[Spacefrisian]

One of the best uses i seen thus far is having Logan and 8 PA Wolfguard with Frostblades in Landraider. a 2nd Pa unit for shooting in Rhino and then 2x WG TDA units. Quite balanced.

[Joasht]

Thanks for the replies!

When I mentioned the Long fangs, I didn't mean to pod the long fangs; I was referring to podding the melta or plasma squads :D

 

It would be nice to see all your thoughts laid out, because my initial post was merely a concept in my head (as I mentioned in the thread title, this thread is more for brainstorming ideas, given the massive number of options available).

[antique_nova]

i think thoughtshower is the proper phrase that we should use. epileptic people have fits when they see such a word. Or so i am told.

thanks

antique_nova

[GunnerRed]

i think thoughtshower is the proper phrase that we should use. epileptic people have fits when they see such a word. Or so i am told.

thanks

antique_nova

 

I'm epileptic I don't give a rats ass if anyone says brianstorming I bet it was some one who isnt epileptic who said they found that offensive.

 

But the wolf guard army I like the idea of it, it looks fun, if anyone builds please let us know how they do with it. I would build one but my wife already angry with me spending to much on this hobby already :) maybe in a couple of years time I might try and build an all wolf guard army.

[antique_nova]

yea, but it's something that my school is aware off, and apparently happened, even the teachers say that we must say thoughtshower instead.. I would rather be safe that sorry however.

thanks

antique_nova

[Night Runner]

10 WG (PA), with two Power Fists, probably in a Rhino- I think the danger is that some people get carried away kitting out their WG to become super killy, but if I'm going to run an entire army of them, best I keep them simple. Two powerfists merely serve to significantly increase their effectiveness against high-Toughness targets.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with a Wolfwing army led by Logan. Using the majority (as in 2/3 or 3/4) of WG as troop choices in PA is the way to go for me. And as you said don't knit out the WG to become super killy. The best way IMO is to fit them out in the same lines as GH with 2 carring SCCW and another 2 with PP. If I was you I'd upgrade one of them with TDA + AC for extra support if the unit is footslogging or in a drop pod.

 

Edit : @ Personally I'm sick and tired of political correctness and society forcing us to call something by a different name even if it not outright offensive. I will continue to use the term 'brianstorming' since it is neither offensive nor derogatory in any way. I'll leave 'thoughtshower' for anyone who cares to use it.

[antique_nova]

is isn't political is it? anyway. i would have 2 squads of terminators with logan and 2 pods of Grey hunters with WG THs for back up. followed by a sitter GH squad with a rune priest and maybe a TDA CL WG.

thanks

antique_nova

[nurglespuss]

@antique-nova: lol, it is political correctness (thats why the phrase was changed, for some percieved possible offense to people with epilepsy) looking at a brainstorming chart cannot provoke and epileptic reaction, thats not how it works (lookingat a fast animated one might have some effect, over time, but with a lot of warning signs. Anyway, that overwith.

 

On Topic: I wish Logan could take power armour! would be excellent to run him and 9 wolfguard with frostblades in a rhino! On that note then, perhaps use a wolf priest & 5 wolf guard with frost axes (2 storm shields and melta bombs), in a razor back (extra armour, smoke) that'd make for a great looking/excellent small combat unit, and without my codex, would cost about... 380 pts? erg I hope thats an over estimate!...

[Niiai]

In Norway we call in "brainstorming" litheraly a borrow word form English.

 

Anyway, if you do this why have them all in a rhino? For 21 points they get storm bolter, at a 24"range you can rain 20 shots on your oponent. That is quite deadly, if they run toweards you (like a horde) just fall back and shoot again. You can of course throw some PF in there or PW. The PW should preferably be on each 5th WG who of course will be fielding a TDA with a heavy weapon. I realy like the idea (you can of course have regular TDA squads and load up some WG to the brim) but it seems like a good thing to have some 24" bolter squads at 21.

[Niiai]

In Norway we call in "brainstorming" litheraly a borrow word form English.

 

Anyway, if you do this why have them all in a rhino? For 21 points they get storm bolter, at a 24"range you can rain 20 shots on your oponent. That is quite deadly, if they run toweards you (like a horde) just fall back and shoot again. You can of course throw some PF in there or PW. The PW should preferably be on each 5th WG who of course will be fielding a TDA with a heavy weapon. I realy like the idea (you can of course have regular TDA squads and load up some WG to the brim) but it seems like a good thing to have some 24" bolter squads at 21.

[rodgambit]

I actually run an Iron Hands army using this set up.

 

Iron Father Greven Mars (counts as logan grimnar)

 

Standard Troop set up is:

-1 WG with AC/PF or CF (depends on points)

-4 PA marines with Storm Bolter upgrade

 

Every unit can move/shoot at 24 inches and still shoot and assault or CA with 3 attacks in CC.

( I tweak these units based on points and if I want to try something new out. Like I might add a PW to one of the marines, or go with the pf or cf on the AC terminator, etc..)

 

I have 3 lone wolf models built with TDA/CF/SS, which goes well with my IH theme as surviving sargents.

 

Another tactic I employ is my Iron Father in a drop pod with relentless rule and 5 MM longfangs for a 1st turn bang.

 

I also have 3 dreads built, though I'm gonna test if they would be more effective as standard with AC or ranged Lascannon/missile launchers.

 

That's the basic theme, lots of 24 inch ranged fire power with 6 troops choices. Good use of cover helps a lot and if I do lose a squad its not the end of the world because they are all built the same.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Wolfguard confuse me sometimes. Only unit I know of where it's cheaper to have better kit.

 

A PA WG with TH and SS is actualy MORE expensive than one in TDA with TH and SS.

[Night Runner]

Wolfguard confuse me sometimes. Only unit I know of where it's cheaper to have better kit.

 

A PA WG with TH and SS is actualy MORE expensive than one in TDA with TH and SS.

 

Tell me about it! I understand that the WG are more expensive to counter-balance our cheap troops but the TH, bikes and jump packs are over the top outrageously expensive. Personally, I think there is another reason why they have made them so expensive. IMO GW wants to steer us into designing SW armies that fit their perspective of the fluff and to keep the game balanced according to their design concept. So they give us the option of having TH+SS, but make them 23pts more expensive in order to limit their use. The same goes for the jump packs; at 43 pts with basic weapons they are a mouthful point wise and add to this the fact they can't lead Skyclaws - one has to ask what is the point in having jump packs for WG?

[Brother Captain Kezef]

one has to ask what is the point in having jump packs for WG?

 

For those crazy people who want a JP bodyguard for a JP wolf lord.

[TiguriusX]

More expensive but also more versatile.

 

Your PA TH/SS can ride in a rhino with 9 GHs

 

Much more expensive to move a 10 man squad with any amount of TDA

[breng77]

Yeah power armor WG would have quite a few advantages over their terminator brethren if the prices were the same.

1.) They have frag and krak grenades meaning that assaulting into cover with things like Wolf Claws, frost blades, and power weapons is better with PA as opposed to TDA.

2.) They have bolt pistols which means with power weapons, and Forst blades (I think) they get 4 attacks each on the charge.

3.) they can fit better in transports 10 each in a Rhino, Drop Pod or Land Raider, 6 in a Razor Back.

4.) They can sweeping advance

5.) Can deploy with a scout squad.

6.) Can take a bike or Jump pack(this is probably the reason why the equipment and the Bike and jump pack are so expensive, imagine how many people would be taking bike squads with Storm shields, Wolf claws and thunder hammers/power fists if it was actually affordable, not to mention combi-weapons, but the base 53 pts per model make it a bit steep to field.)

 

(Not Saying that I think at TH/SS PA Wolf Guard should cost 68 pts when a when the Terminator armored one costs 63 pts, but the PA only really loses you a 2+ save while giving you a lot for those 5 pts.)

[Night Runner]

I wont deny any of what you said because it's true (@Tigurius X and breng77). In fact it's not the issue I posted on. PA has advantages over TDA, I would not want it any other way since I field mostly PA. But if anyone wanted to field an elite unit of WG with jump packs (ignoring the fluff reasons for sake of argument) they could but at an exorbitant price. I don't have a unit of WG bikers (and at the cost, I would not even consider it), but I would like to have a WG (or IC) with bike leading my Swiftclaws. So I don't mind buying one even if it is expensive. But I cannot do the same for Skyclaws, and I personally would not consider a unit of WG with jump packs (since I usually play 1500pt games). And this is why I asked what is the point in giving WG jump packs (unless you want to make such an expensive unit - then fair enough).

 

And this is the point I was trying to make. That GW has designed the codex (for better or worse, rightly or wrongly) in a way to try and steer us into designing armies that fit their perception but allowing us to take certain options but at a cost (as well as balancing out the overall army). I hope this clears up what I posted earlier.

[Gentlemanloser]

With Logan, I have a hard time justifying a better Troop than a WGT. Cheapest way in any Imperial Codex, to get a full squad of Power Weapon armed Marines.

 

The only limit is thier on table mobility, if you don't want to use LR. Drop Pods can help you deploy, but WGT are stuck with only a 6" Move on table.

 

If only the Rune Priests had GoI! ;)

[breng77]

Nightrunner, I completely agree with your point on the jump packs, unless it was a mistake not to allow swift claws to have a WG attached 43 points a model for jump pack marines is way too expensive especially if you want to equip them with anything other than base equipment. Looking at the Dark angels codex their characters can take jump packs for 20 points and bikes for 30, which is still pretty cost prohibitive, I am guessing that GW does not want to give SW the ability to take bikes, and Jump marines as troops for the most part. Because all though it is possible it would be very cost prohibitive.

At 1500 pts just quickly I get with Jump packs (as a possibility)

Hq

Logan

 

WGBL

Jump packs

Wolf Claw

Storm shield

 

Troops

5 Wolf Guard

Jump packs

2 Power weapons

1 Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

5 Wolf Guard

Jump packs

2 Power weapons

1 Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

5 Wolf Guard

Jump packs

2 Power weapons

1 Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

5 Wolf Guard

Jump packs

2 Power weapons

1 Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

Or bikes

Hq

Logan

 

WGBL

Bike

Wolf Claw

Storm shield

 

Troops

4 Wolf Guard

Bike

Power weapons

Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

4 Wolf Guard

Bike

Power weapons

Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

4 Wolf Guard

Bike

Power weapons

Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

4 Wolf Guard

Bike

Power weapons

Power fist

2 Combi melta

1 Combi flamer

 

Now obviously better lists can probably be made with a little more thought, but you can get 4 troop choices on the table with both but only 22 and 18 models which is quite low, Also Logan is wasted in that he has no squad to run with. It just makes it tough when there are better choices in other codices for similar armies.

[Chodjinn]

In either of the jump pack or bike lists there Logan is on his own. He needs to be attached to a squad to make him worth the points, on his own he'll just get rapid fired to death or a lascannon in the face.

[lunchb0x]

My Wolf Guard List :

 

Logan

 

8 man body guard all with combi-meltas

 

and what ever else points dumped into Wolf Guard troops with combi-meltas/plasmas and transports.

 

:)

 

When you hit the table with 30+ melta shots or plasma shots in a turn, not much is going to stand up to it.

 

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SamaNagol]

I went in immediately and ran a 4 Terminator squads with Drop Pod list. Logan and 4 Terms with Storm Shields plus whatever CC Weapons u would care to give them is FANTASTIC.

 

I am very much considering bringing in a 10 man PA squad with a selection of combi plas and combi melta to drop onto less obvious targets where walking up with terminators might not work.

 

However, I do find that Drop pods when combined with Melta Land Speeders can be very effective. The land Speeders can get in and take out nasty artillery/mobile gun platforms or pop any big transports and it will help you get round the mobility issue of Drop podding terminators.

 

However I have not tried them out against Tyranids so cannot say if it is a competitive list.

[Joasht]

I do agree with the potential of a squad of PA WG's with combiweapons, maybe something like three such squads in drop pods, allowing two to drop on the first turn and unleash some pain. Especially if you attach a RP (or two :X) to open up with their own powers.

 

Now regarding Power Armored WG, what do you guys think are decent squad combinations to use? I was thinking something like:

1) ~6 PA WG, combi weapons all around in a drop pod, as mentioned. You could use 10, but its gonna get costly. Maybe squeeze a Power Fist in there, just in case you fail to kill your target, and it happens to be something big (e.g. Dread, Carnifex, Wraithlord, etc).

 

2) My original suggestion of 10 PA WG with two special melee weapons in a transport (probably a rhino). I was thinking of two power fists per squad to keep prices down, but I was toying with possibly either replacing one fist with pair of wolf claws, or adding a guy with wolf claws to the squad, mainly for MEQs.

 

3) Maybe a super-killy power armored bodyguard squad in a Land Raider? A max squad with an IC and Arjac, maybe something like four special melee weapons (e.g. 2 fists, 2 twin claws) and a few Storm Shield guys peppered for defense against power weapon-wielding squads. Thing is, many would say "meh, super killy squads should be in TDA", but at the same time while they are more survivable in TDA, you get only more or less 1/2 the number of attacks because you can only squeeze like 7 TDA's tops into a LRC. Plus with Power Armor you can move on and kill more stuff after winning.

 

Any suggestions/comments on the use of Power Armored WG would be great, thanks!