A fistful of fury

[Godhead]

I see alot of people prefer to give the powerfist in their grey hunter squads to the wolfguard leading it instead of a standard GH, but while busting off my extra power weapons and plasma pistols off my greyhunters, it occurred to me why not do both? Two fists in a squad surely threatens anything that would bog down your troops. I realize that it makes the unit more expensive, but troops win games, so why not try to give them as much of an edge as possible. If you could afford the points, then you could have two fists, and motw. That should give anyone pause when considering a charge against GH's, especially with the stock standard base grey hunter load out.

 

Has anyone else considered this loadout?

[Max_Dammit]

Power weapons are better at not getting bogged down, I pack fists so i dont get stuck in on stuff i cant hurt, not to get stuck in

[Spacefrisian]

I havent used WG with fist in my list yet. So not everyone does that. But than again it should be known that i usually dont follow mainstream in regards to building armylists. (Bjorn in 1000 points)

[Godhead]

I actually meant getting stuck against things you cant hurt vs just bogged down. While I love the idea of power weapons, I just don't find them cost effective anymore. There is nothing worse than watching a unit get mulched by a tooled up CC carny wishing you had some way to hurt it and no way to really help your guys out except wait until they died so I could gun it down.

[Quillen]

Well I use to use all power fists. Now I am wondering if the wolf gaurd alone is good enough. You only get 2 atacks with it in the charge or counter charge. Then your back to 1 attack till the fight ends. With a poer weapon you are getting 3 or 2. So against troops it will do ok.

 

I had 2 grey hunter packs tricked out with fists in a fight with 4 dreads. And on the charge they mixed it up well killing one hunter 2 more, but once the first round was over it was all down hill. Not that a power weapon would have helped, but it could not have been as bad.

 

At least on a Wolf Gaurd it's 3 on the charge/counter charge and then 2 for the rest of the fight.

[Spacefrisian]

Might be an idea to start fighting like wolves do. Bring enemy numbers down and than bring the killing blow instead of mindlesly charging in their ranks, if you do the last tactic than you might wanna start Blood Angels or Black Templars.

[nurglespuss]

I think a mix is best.

 

Light squads: Grey Hunters with bolters, thats it.

Medium Squads: Grey Hunters with power weapon/flamer & bolters, mark of the wulfen.

Heavy Squad: Grey Hunters with Powerfist, Melta gun/Plasma gun/Flamer (x1 or x2), Standard, mark of the wulfen.

 

Then its a choice of foot slogging/transport, character attachment (Wolfguard) and HQ attachment (Wolfguard battle leader/Rune Priest/Wolf Priest).

 

Thats how I break it down,. rather than say 'every' squad has to have the ability to kill tanks, for some squads, its just not their job, and if they accidentally get into CC with armour, then they will die, but thats OK, as hopefully, you will have adjusted your deployment so that supporting 'anti tank' units are in range.

[Hfran Morkai]

My "assault" Grey Hunter Pack Leaders bring Thunder Hammers (as I prefer them and fit my theme) and I put a Power Weapon on a Grey Hunter, because they always have two attacks as before but can gain another one for charging/counter-attack, well worth that 15 points in my book.

 

However my static fire support packs only consist of Grey Hunters in standard games (will add leaders in Apoc) so I take a fist on a Hunter, just in case. Of course if the enemy has gotten into contact with a fire support pack then something has inevitably gone quite wrong.

[Grey Mage]

Squads with Meltaguns get Powerweapons, Squads with Plasma or Flamers get Powerfists as a general rule of thumb. Squads that are used as bodygaurds for a razorback riding HQ get a powerfist, always, as the character will give me all the I 4+ powerweapon attacks for the squad.

[Yeti]

I actually meant getting stuck against things you cant hurt vs just bogged down. While I love the idea of power weapons, I just don't find them cost effective anymore. There is nothing worse than watching a unit get mulched by a tooled up CC carny wishing you had some way to hurt it and no way to really help your guys out except wait until they died so I could gun it down.

 

Why don't you spend those points on lascannons and plasma weapons and gun it down before it gets into CC with your troops?

 

Personally, I find that power weapons are more cost effective. They may not do much when fighting carnies/dreadnoughts, but against most anything else I find them much more effective. More attacks with no armor save is pretty good when compared to a better chance to wound with less attacks.

 

The only place I put power fists is in Blood Claws, with a PFist WG, usually accompanied by a Wolf Priest. I get re-rolls on the fewer attacks I do get, getting more mileage out of the better chance to wound. But even then, I try to avoid walkers and MCs, prefering to go after elite troops and HQs.

[antique_nova]

RP work best with Jotww, but that is unreliable half the time. how about WG with a thunder hammer attached to the large GH squads? stick in a motww and a standard plus a combi-mleta for the WG and melta gun for the GH squad and you anti-mc ready.

Why wg? well since a power fist is a special weapon, you will get one basic attack. a WG has two basic attacks and the TH makes any model that lost a wound to a TH, two attacks making it more likely than one, strike at Initiate one, which bnefits the rest of you squad.

thanks

antique_nova

[Wolf Lord Jukes]

I like to go with 2 PF in my GH squad when I have the points for the WG. I just think it makes the unit a whole lot more versatile as far as what opponents it can assault, and what opponents will be afraid to assault it. A PW usually hasn't earned its points for me, and so I go fist heavy.

[Godhead]

I think jukes and myself are seeing things the same way. Sometimes you don't always get to kill things before they assault. I've always viewed space marines as a jack of all trades. Some people try to make their squads specialists, but what happens if your opponent forces a bad match up. I like to try to make my troops as versatile as possible. I thinking double fist does that for me. Hopefully i'll get a few games in let ya know how its working out. (Worst case scenario, i'll make the boy fight me so I can test out squad load outs).

[bravelybravesirrobin]

cram as many fists in as possible, now that takes me back. When I used to post on this forum waaay back when my list building advice basically amounted to;

 

"needs more powerfists"

 

 

Nowadays it isn't so cut and dry. I still follow the maxim that any squad which is likely to get into close combat needs a powerfist. They'll often kill as many models as the rest of the sqaud combined. With one upgrade they allow you to potentially kill any model in 40k without exception. they are realistically the only way to deal with a wraithlord or walker that gets into cc with you. They also insta-kill IC's and that is a lovely little touch. All those benefits for a small amount of pts means every GH pack, every WG pack and my thundercav all get one.

 

But obviously it is not just cheaper but more effective on the wolf guard so he gets it.

 

As for adding a second one to a squad, well now that I have my squad able to kill every model in 40k without exceptions all the 2nd fist does is make them slightly better at it. But you have to way the cost of that one unit with being better versus making your army better. 2 fists buys you another thundercav, 3 fists gets you a scout pack, 4 fists gets you a vindicator, (nearly) a rune priest, some landspeeders, etc.

 

If my GH are already able to beat most of their opponents in cc adding that extra fist seems a little bit like overkill and those points buy me much needed support units to shore up weaknesses in tank hunting, etc.

 

As for the other options;

 

The banner is the best bargain in the entire world so in it goes

 

Motw is the next purchase since it improves the squads ability against everything (more attacks, that can potentially rend is better vs tanks, hordes and MEQ)

 

Power weapons comes a distant last as they only give a slight advantage vs MEQ ot TEQ units for a huge pts premium. They'd really be only worth taking at less than 10pts.

[Vash113]

Personally I'd say Power Fists should remain purely the realm of Wolf Guard. On Grey Hunters or Blood Claws it's just a waste, without charging you get one attack, just one! At least with a Power Weapon you get 2, more if charging. Wolf Guard at least have a base 2 attacks so they make better use out of Power Fists.

 

Currently I have 2 Grey Hunter Packs with a Wolf Guard w/ Power Fist and another Power Fist on a Grey Hunter, but I'm seriously contemplating ripping the Fists off and replacing them with Power Weapons, or possibly Lightning Claws. I used to cram as many Fists into my lists as possible, and my Great Company still includes more than 20 Power Fists throughout it, however I'm replacing them with Power Weapons and Claws more and more often these days.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I agree with Vash. Power Fists should be WG. Paying 25 points to equip a GH w/ power fist is just points inefficient. Power weapon is more cost effective on a Grey Hunter but it also depends on what role you want to kit your units out for. WHy not frost weapon/power weapon for infantry killers and PF for more heavy work.

There is just more stuff I would rather spend that 2 points on... like a Long Fang with a ML. (Just got another pair from my buddy who had 2 from 3ed start box ;) take that nurglepuss)

 

ps- vash ur siggy is awesome. that was my fav line from the heresy books that I have read so far.

[Spacefrisian]

Personally I'd say Power Fists should remain purely the realm of Wolf Guard. On Grey Hunters or Blood Claws it's just a waste, without charging you get one attack, just one! At least with a Power Weapon you get 2, more if charging. Wolf Guard at least have a base 2 attacks so they make better use out of Power Fists.

 

 

Something tells me you have recently started Spacewolves.

[antique_nova]

something tells me that you've just come out from primary school. play nice.

[Grey Mage]

Personally I'd say Power Fists should remain purely the realm of Wolf Guard. On Grey Hunters or Blood Claws it's just a waste, without charging you get one attack, just one! At least with a Power Weapon you get 2, more if charging. Wolf Guard at least have a base 2 attacks so they make better use out of Power Fists.

 

 

Something tells me you have recently started Spacewolves.

Nah, hes been around here for over two years 'frisian.

[rodgambit]

I recently just went with a full load out on my GH squads so that they are all equally balanced and effective. Since troops are the only thing that can score, I want them to be as versatile and tough as possible. I went with:

 

9 GH's

-pw

-motw

-pp

-melta gun

 

1 WG

-pp

-pf

 

This gives me 1 melta and 2 plasma shots on vehicles if I can position into rear or side armour, plus a pw/pf and motw rending in close combat. I have thought about a WG in TDA but I want to be able to move my squads around via drop pod or rhino. I like the rhino lately because it does a better job at protecting my troops and holding an objective.

[SamaNagol]

Depends what you want to do. WG with a fist has +1 attack and Ld and is 1 point cheaper than a GH with a Fist, but you cannot get a second Special Weapon if you want them to fit into a transport.

[Valerian]

Powerfists used to be just a little out of balance. At 15 points and with full attacks it was a no brainer to take every Fist that you possibly could. Unfortunately, to "fix" it they gave Fists the double nerf by both increasing the points cost and taking away the additional off-hand attack.

 

Now there actually is "a debate" about whether to include Fists or to take Power Weapons, or MotW, or other choices instead. I guess this means that the balance is now about right: there is no clear best option anymore. Players must examine their requirements now, and determine what is best for their units based upon what you want them to do.

 

V

[Hfran Morkai]

Powerfists used to be just a little out of balance. At 15 points and with full attacks it was a no brainer to take every Fist that you possibly could. Unfortunately, to "fix" it they gave Fists the double nerf by both increasing the points cost and taking away the additional off-hand attack.

 

Now there actually is "a debate" about whether to include Fists or to take Power Weapons, or MotW, or other choices instead. I guess this means that the balance is now about right: there is no clear best option anymore. Players must examine their requirements now, and determine what is best for their units based upon what you want them to do.

 

V

 

I guess I lack a brain then considering I took power weapons on line troops and gave the WG a fist. :D